Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #10

[Aldona]

Hi Aldona. The Keep in Brighton have the Electoral Roll for the years 1983-86 held under R/C 68/9/1-8. Rural wards are in name order but being so small it should be possible to view everyone on the Electoral register that lived in or around Mottynsden Manor/Lodge.

I’ll answer your other questions separately


Marion mentions Amsterdam & Holland a number of times on her postcards home and that she was “eagerly looking forward to Van Gogh’s Sunflowers and revisit Holland”. I believe this is reference to her honeymoon with her ex-husband Ray Barter.

Marion flew into London Heathrow “At Heathrow airport booked my big suitcase into the luggage hold”. Where have we heard this before?!! She then according to her letter home caught the train to Tunbridge Wells. Yet again as with JO the hire car is not picked up at the nearest transport hub.

I can’t be sure but I’m taking a punt that Marion would have done the JO reverse ferry trip from Harwich in Essex to Hook of Holland to get to Amsterdam. The Orient Express does not travel there. The newly discovered postcard from Marion said;

Delayed my orient trip till late August. First available re-booking, due to earlier rain and floods in Germany

Thanks, that’s really helpful! Am booked in to the Keep for a week on Tuesday, if you see anything else useful on their catalogue do let me know. Am planning to go through local newspapers around that time too.

 

[LEO123]

With regard to focusing on MB's time back in Aust, and possible demise, there is one point in JO's evidence that is prominent in my mind. She was questioned on four separate occasions about RB's alleged 20,000 acre property at Nymboida. She was asked did she know where it was located, how to spell it, did she ever go there and was there a house there. Now, I don't think for one minute that he ever owned a 20,000 acre property, but as noted in previous stories that he told his victims and the court, there is sometimes a tiny element of truth embedded in his lies. I think that he may have had access to a property, house or shed near Nymboida. To my way of thinking, and it is IMO, it might explain MB's last suspected whereabouts at Grafton on 13/9/97 when she used her Medicare card. I suspect MB may have been taken from Grafton to Nymboida or thereabouts (42kms). Perhaps he knew of an unoccupied house there; perhaps, as others have suggested, he gave MB a sedative when she became suspicious or confrontational and perhaps he was careless with the dosage. I just have a nagging suspicion that the answer to MB's whereabouts lies there. IMO

I think you’ve been reading my mind lol. I’ve been looking at accommodation around Nymboida village for quite a while now. 25 years ago, it could have been very different though. RB did proclaim at the Inquest he had never heard of Nymboida and has no knowledge of where it is. He was a bit too defensive about that question IMO

 

[BonnieB]

I think you’ve been reading my mind lol. I’ve been looking at accommodation around Nymboida village for quite a while now. 25 years ago, it could have been very different though. RB did proclaim at the Inquest he had never heard of Nymboida and has no knowledge of where it is. He was a bit too defensive about that question IMO

For someone who boasted he owned 12,ooo acres there, I find that a little strange.

 

[poppypopcorn]

Did she really say that she flew into Heathrow and then caught the train to Tunbridge Wells? Because that's not an easy trip even now, let alone in the 90s. The Heathrow Express train link didn't open until 1998 so it would have been Piccadilly line tube from Heathrow into central London, change at Piccadilly Circus onto Bakerloo line or Leicester Square onto Northern line, into Charing Cross underground, change to overground station, train to Tunbridge Wells.

Gatwick airport 25 miles from Tunbridge Wells and the journey does not involve transiting through central London.

However in the 90s very few scheduled long-haul flights used Gatwick, they all went into Heathrow. So she probably DID fly into Heathrow and someone picked her up.

 

[gymtonic]

Did she really say that she flew into Heathrow and then caught the train to Tunbridge Wells? Because that's not an easy trip even now, let alone in the 90s. The Heathrow Express train link didn't open until 1998 so it would have been Piccadilly line tube from Heathrow into central London, change at Piccadilly Circus onto Bakerloo line or Leicester Square onto Northern line, into Charing Cross underground, change to overground station, train to Tunbridge Wells.

Gatwick airport 25 miles from Tunbridge Wells and the journey does not involve transiting through central London.

However in the 90s very few scheduled long-haul flights used Gatwick, they all went into Heathrow. So she probably DID fly into Heathrow and someone picked her up.

Agreed. Negotiating some of those tube changes with luggage were a nightmare. Not all were luggage friendly! I would often get a National Express bus rather than the tube. Getting picked up at Heathrow also a nightmare and expensive parking. My friends refused to do it!
Gatwick would definitely be a better access point.

 

[Carovb5]

Did we

Agreed. Negotiating some of those tube changes with luggage were a nightmare. Not all were luggage friendly! I would often get a National Express bus rather than the tube. Getting picked up at Heathrow also a nightmare and expensive parking. My friends refused to do it!
Gatwick would definitely be a better access point.

find proof for the Heatrow airport? speaking from my own experience: when you book a flight (or see a flightticket), the airport is often the location in short (code) instead of the full name.
I booked a flight to London once, being young i didn’t know there were more than one airports in London, so just booked a ticket “to London”, instead of “to Heatrow” or whatever. If you guys get what i want to say.

If he talked about Heatrow along the way a lot, or she knew only about Heatrow, she might copy that, not knowing better, instead of knowing there are more big airports.

If we have no proof it might be an error of her?

 

[Roseberry]

Did we

find proof for the Heatrow airport? speaking from my own experience: when you book a flight (or see a flightticket), the airport is often the location in short (code) instead of the full name.
I booked a flight to London once, being young i didn’t know there were more than one airports in London, so just booked a ticket “to London”, instead of “to Heatrow” or whatever. If you guys get what i want to say.

If he talked about Heatrow along the way a lot, or she knew only about Heatrow, she might copy that, not knowing better, instead of knowing there are more big airports.

If we have no proof it might be an error of her?

which airport is closest to the usual ferry route he took?

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

which airport is closest to the usual ferry route he took?

Southend, Stansted, Luton, Heathrow & Gatwick in that order

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

The use of the Ferry from Harwich (Essex) is intriguing especially if heading to East Sussex & Kent. In the witness stand he said at first that he paid for JO's train ticket from Dover Priory train station (what a gentleman!!) and that he had run out of money. He also at first said that it was possible to leave the hire car anywhere (Dover) but then started to change his story to say he went back to Harwich 130 miles away (by bus/train!!) to get the night ferry to Hook of Holland, then Amsterdam, onto Brussels and then Tournai. Not bad for a guy with no money.

He was at Dover with the largest cross Channel Ferry port in the UK. Why make such an awkward, convoluted and expensive journey back to Harwich? Also if he still had the hire car why not take it back to Colchester (Essex) where he hired it from rather than use the bus/train? I so wish AC asked but I'm not altogether sure his geography knowledge of the UK is that extensive. A bit like mine of Australia!

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Thanks, that’s really helpful! Am booked in to the Keep for a week on Tuesday, if you see anything else useful on their catalogue do let me know. Am planning to go through local newspapers around that time too.

Great stuff. We are going to get to the bottom of why they ended up in rural and secluded Burwash. It certainly wasn't for the weather or children's health as they told us themselves. Not sure if The Keep will have this info but I would be intrigued if there were any Letting agents advertising the lodge for rent in the period 1982/83? This could well be held in the Kent & Sussex Courier for that time. Just how did they find this property? Another question AC should have asked!

 

[BonnieB]

Following a possible clue...does anyone here have access to the details of a deregistered company on ASIC?

 

[Roseberry]

The use of the Ferry from Harwich (Essex) is intriguing especially if heading to East Sussex & Kent. In the witness stand he said at first that he paid for JO's train ticket from Dover Priory train station (what a gentleman!!) and that he had run out of money. He also at first said that it was possible to leave the hire car anywhere (Dover) but then started to change his story to say he went back to Harwich 130 miles away (by bus/train!!) to get the night ferry to Hook of Holland, then Amsterdam, onto Brussels and then Tournai. Not bad for a guy with no money.

He was at Dover with the largest cross Channel Ferry port in the UK. Why make such an awkward, convoluted and expensive journey back to Harwich? Also if he still had the hire car why not take it back to Colchester (Essex) where he hired it from rather than use the bus/train? I so wish AC asked but I'm not altogether sure his geography knowledge of the UK is that extensive. A bit like mine of Australia!

Yes that really is interesting. Extra expense, very out of character. He's either avoiding someone he knows or something or it's not taking him where he really wants to be. And you didn't need a passport for any ferry at the time, and they were pretty much all the same in terms of security, and cameras etc? And both terminated in the exact same location and he could onward to the same destinations from there? Sorry one last question for the expert! - what was his usual ferry route in and out again? What's your take on it?

 

[ChrysStevenson]

Great stuff. We are going to get to the bottom of why they ended up in rural and secluded Burwash. It certainly wasn't for the weather or children's health as they told us themselves. Not sure if The Keep will have this info but I would be intrigued if there were any Letting agents advertising the lodge for rent in the period 1982/83? This could well be held in the Kent & Sussex Courier for that time. Just how did they find this property? Another question AC should have asked!

This is just a “gut feeling” thing, so I’m happy to be howled down. Is it possible that DdH and RB actually separated at this time - possibly over MC?

Just because he says he was dutifully returning to the family with the French groceries every weekend doesn’t mean it’s so.

I’m not sure what knowing this would add to the case but if the marriage was stable, why would DdH up stakes and take the kids to England, leaving RB in Luxembourg?

 

[BonnieB]

deleted error

 

[BonnieB]

This is just a “gut feeling” thing, so I’m happy to be howled down. Is it possible that DdH and RB actually separated at this time - possibly over MC?

Just because he says he was dutifully returning to the family with the French groceries every weekend doesn’t mean it’s so.

I’m not sure what knowing this would add to the case but if the marriage was stable, why would DdH up stakes and take the kids to England, leaving RB in Luxembourg?

I laughed when I read this because I thought along similar lines. She certainly left the door open for RB to have his "platonic" affair with MC. But did you notice that DdH was having none of his story about MC being her friend and visiting their home and taking their son to the playground? Nope, no way, never met her!

 

[ruby925]

Great stuff. We are going to get to the bottom of why they ended up in rural and secluded Burwash. It certainly wasn't for the weather or children's health as they told us themselves. Not sure if The Keep will have this info but I would be intrigued if there were any Letting agents advertising the lodge for rent in the period 1982/83? This could well be held in the Kent & Sussex Courier for that time. Just how did they find this property? Another question AC should have asked!

Could Burwash have been Ddh's preference,maybe she was there with her parents on the previous trip to UK,maybe had an earlier family connection? RB going to/from Europe all the time would surely have preferred a more anonymous and convenient town to live in/hide IMO.

 

[Roseberry]

Could Burwash have been Ddh's preference,maybe she was there with her parents on the previous trip to UK,maybe had an earlier family connection? RB going to/from Europe all the time would surely have preferred a more anonymous and convenient town to live in/hide IMO.

Wasn't Diane a Wilson? If so there's a heap of Wilsons going back to the year dot in Burwash.

 

[ChrysStevenson]

Wasn't Diane a Wilson? If so there's a heap of Wilsons going back to the year dot in Burwash.
Wilson - Ancestry.com

Her maiden name was Walker and her mother’s maiden name was Lance.

 

[ChrysStevenson]

Error

 

[Roseberry]

Her maiden name was Walker and her mother’s maiden name was Lance.

thanks, sorry about that