Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #6

[Lokii]

To me it sounded like G was expressing to the LC of being heavily coerced by the said man, she did use the word harassed/harassment - correct me if i have made an error.

Perhaps I heard it wrong? I thought the first time G spoke of the photograph incident she said she felt like she might have been drugged, and mentioned him giving her wine but he would never drink any himself?
The LC make that much noise whenever anyone else is trying to speak that it is sometimes impossible to hear a word!

 

[StrangerDanger]

I think Marion would have been quite vulnerable to the advances of mysterious European man who offered to whisk her away to a new life abroad. Not saying that she was gullible or naive, but she clearly liked being in relationships and she was at a time in her career where she needed a change of scenery.

Ginette’s evidence about how he ‘divided and conquered’ and tried to separate her from her daughters was interesting. Maybe he did the same with Marion, and that’s why Marion was complaining to the teller about Sally not paying her for her car, or whatever that was about.

 

[Lokii]

I think Marion would have been quite vulnerable to the advances of mysterious European man who offered to whisk her away to a new life abroad. Not saying that she was gullible or naive, but she clearly liked being in relationships and she was at a time in her career where she needed a change of scenery.

Ginette’s evidence about how he ‘divided and conquered’ and tried to separate her from her daughters was interesting. Maybe he did the same with Marion, and that’s why Marion was complaining to the teller about Sally not paying her for her car, or whatever that was about.

So many things that G said proves just how brazen he could be in such a short period of time. I’m sure I read somewhere that Sally described Marion as being a bit naive in nature, a very trusting type of person. Exactly the type of person he would prey on going by what G said today.

 

[MrsWattle]

I hope his Old photo 50's to 90's albums are scanned and shared on media to find his other victims. He probably changed his looks for different passports. Internet Romance scam is common but it seems he is the old world scam master with greed as his motivator.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Some interesting observations from today's line of questioning.

Despite not remembering it, the ad in Le Courier for a 'creche France' was likely placed by Ginette. I found two in Trove, one in March 1999 and the other a year earlier. I think Casselden was making a point that this ad together with her 'seeking a friend' ad could show she was an 'independent woman of means' and made her a target to RB who we know also reads Le Courier.

I too was confused at her insistence it was not a sexual or romantic relationship. Yet I believe her. Perhaps this line of questioning is to show that RB would defraud anyone, including friends and associates. The NAA papers include victims names that are male and business related. Essentially, his victims are NOT simply women he's in a relationship with who willingly share their money with him. This is an important distinction.

Further to that, in the NAA papers, there's a medical document that has a handwritten scribble saying he's had some spinal surgery that has healed well. A google search reveals spinal surgery can sometimes cause erectile dysfunction. So Ginette revealing he was impotent and had a blue pee pee is very interesting.

This is all important to refute RB's story that he was in a romantic relationship with Marion (I think most of us question the truth of the first encounter anyway), and that Marion was not simply running away to marry a man to share her life and money with. The point is that he was very much coercing her as a fraud, not a lover.

Can't say this is what is actually happening of course, it's just my observations.

In addition, the fact that Marion told Sally that the man she saw in the car was 'a friend she met at the arts centre'. Sally thinks Marion had no reason to lie about it as she was always open about boyfriends.

Pure speculation, but I feel all this 'friend' stuff is leading somewhere... Eventually, RB is going to have to explain why Marion changed her name to his initials and surname. For this to work, they need to have been romantically involved.

His story is that they were lovers who reconnected. It will be easier to believe she changed her name to his if they were in love and it was a cute homage to him, or even that Marion was obsessed with him. I bet a millions bucks RB will say that Marion was obsessed with him, had delusions they were married, and followed him overseas but she never found him, and he ran away from her because she was a danger to him!

However, if there is evidence RB's MO is to befriend his victims, and the fact Marion herself said he was only a friend, his story may start to crumble. If they weren't lovers, she must've changed her name because he told her to, because he needed her to, such as for the purpose of withdrawing her money in the UK or whatever other fraud he had planned. Hope that makes sense.

 

[KeenSleuth17]

In addition, the fact that Marion told Sally that the man she saw in the car was 'a friend she met at the arts centre'. Sally thinks Marion had no reason to lie about it as she was always open about boyfriends.

Pure speculation, but I feel all this 'friend' stuff is leading somewhere... Eventually, RB is going to have to explain why Marion changed her name to the initials and surname he was using at the time. For this to work, he needs to have been romantically involved with Marion.

We already know his story is that they were lovers who reconnected. It will be easier to believe she changed her name to his if they were in love and it was a cute homage to him, or even that Marion was obsessed with him. I bet a millions bucks he'll say that Marion was obsessed with him and followed him overseas but she never found him and he ran away from her because she was a danger to him!

However, if there is evidence RB's MO is to befriend his victims, and the fact Marion said he was only a friend, his story may start to crumble. If they weren't lovers, she must've changed her name because he told her to, because he needed her to, such as for the purpose of withdrawing her money in the UK or whatever other fraud he had planned. Hope that makes sense.

It sure is going to be interesting. I’m not sure how he will go on the stand, he has a lot of lies to remember (so it seems!)

 

[centred]

In addition, the fact that Marion told Sally that the man she saw in the car was 'a friend she met at the arts centre'. Sally thinks Marion had no reason to lie about it as she was always open about boyfriends.

Pure speculation, but I feel all this 'friend' stuff is leading somewhere... Eventually, RB is going to have to explain why Marion changed her name to the initials and surname he was using at the time. For this to work, he needs to have been romantically involved with Marion.

We already know his story is that they were lovers who reconnected. It will be easier to believe she changed her name to his if they were in love and it was a cute homage to him, or even that Marion was obsessed with him. I bet a millions bucks he'll say that Marion was obsessed with him and followed him overseas but she never found him and he ran away from her because she was a danger to him!

However, if there is evidence RB's MO is to befriend his victims, and the fact Marion said he was only a friend, his story may start to crumble. If they weren't lovers, she must've changed her name because he told her to, because he needed her to, such as for the purpose of withdrawing her money in the UK or whatever other fraud he had planned. Hope that makes sense.

I was under the impression he seemed to marry at times (maybe under other names also ) some obviously have been referenced in records already public . He traveled extensively .

I don't know why i have the impression Marion did marry the person she changed her name too perhaps the podcast and her saying she was a house wife etc on return passport . I also believe she intended to distance herself from family (at least for a time )

Was it correct she could not access the money she transferred to the bank over seas ?
so the suggestion was they returned to access her money here ?

 

[LouLouSleuth]

Did anyone else notice the reference to Luxembourg in the lady’s testimony today. That *advertiser censored*!

 

[centred]

Can i ask if his real identity has been established ? I am confused about his true identity ?
Born in 1939 and nothing before the info started re NAA as Wouter son of Abel and Maria ?
and he was on the army payroll dept is all that seems to be known . Is this his true identity ? Can anyone confirm ?

 

[caitlincurious]

Can i ask if his real identity has been established ? I am confused about his true identity ?
Born in 1939 and nothing before the info started re NAA as Wouter son of Abel and Maria ?
and he was on the army payroll dept is all that seems to be known . Is this his true identity ? Can anyone confirm ?

And when did he become Ric Blum?

Also the NAA file listed alternative names - I haven't been able to find anything on them yet but could yield something

 

[StrangerDanger]

And when did he become Ric Blum?

Also the NAA file listed alternative names - I haven't been able to find anything on them yet but could yield something

yes I’d be interested to know that as well. Last name reference we have is the last safe custody box at CBA Broadbeach in the name of WC around 2016.

also noted in the CBA evidence yesterday the bank account was described as ‘a joint account when it was opened and it hasn’t changed’.. so is it still open? Are RB and DdH still together?

 

[DK007]

Perhaps I heard it wrong? I thought the first time G spoke of the photograph incident she said she felt like she might have been drugged, and mentioned him giving her wine but he would never drink any himself?
The LC make that much noise whenever anyone else is trying to speak that it is sometimes impossible to hear a word!

yes the LC table made lots of background noise it was disruptive. I do remember G saying that and when questioned by Addi LT, G said that said person was harassing her. This said person has left a trail of destruction and trauma. I think G had more to say but was limited by the questions that were asked to her..

 

[KeenSleuth17]

Can i ask if his real identity has been established ? I am confused about his true identity ?
Born in 1939 and nothing before the info started re NAA as Wouter son of Abel and Maria ?
and he was on the army payroll dept is all that seems to be known . Is this his true identity ? Can anyone confirm ?

I’m with you… who is the guy underneath all the aliases?!
Also… where on earth is he now? I saw something about Northern NSW. But is he definitely not the guy and no connection to the guy they visited on the podcast in Luxembourg? And… whatever happened to them wanting to prosecute for obtaining citizenship by deceit - is it going to catch up with him?
Is he currently under surveillance I wonder? I’m sure as an expert fraudster he could quickly change ID and jump ship again! Also wondering if they will find out the contents of the safe custody boxes at the CBA - or if he’s getting rid of them in response to the new evidence. I bet he is watching the inquest and weaving more of his story.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

Can i ask if his real identity has been established ? I am confused about his true identity ?
Born in 1939 and nothing before the info started re NAA as Wouter son of Abel and Maria ?
and he was on the army payroll dept is all that seems to be known . Is this his true identity ? Can anyone confirm ?

Are you reading the National Archive file? I’m reading it now. I think his true name is F De H if that makes sense (sorry don’t think I can say his name in full on here). So looks like his wife and 2 kids have the same surname.

 

[centred]

yes I’d be interested to know that as well. Last name reference we have is the last safe custody box at CBA Broadbeach in the name of WC around 2016.

also noted in the CBA evidence yesterday the bank account was described as ‘a joint account when it was opened and it hasn’t changed’.. so is it still open? Are RB and DdH still together?

All these names are confusing enough without having to use initials as well , i cant remember what WC stands for ..I doubt they have been together for a long time but i could be wrong

 

[centred]

Are you reading the National Archive file? I’m reading it now. I think his true name is F De H if that makes sense (sorry don’t think I can say his name in full on here). So looks like his wife and 2 kids have the same surname.

yes but i believe an alias as well

 

[KeenSleuth17]

Anyone else think it is ironic that “Clark Hunter” is the name of a prominent Immigration Lawyer?

 

[centred]

I’m with you… who is the guy underneath all the aliases?!
Also… where on earth is he now? I saw something about Northern NSW. But is he definitely not the guy and no connection to the guy they visited on the podcast in Luxembourg? And… whatever happened to them wanting to prosecute for obtaining citizenship by deceit - is it going to catch up with him?
Is he currently under surveillance I wonder? I’m sure as an expert fraudster he could quickly change ID and jump ship again! Also wondering if they will find out the contents of the safe custody boxes at the CBA - or if he’s getting rid of them in response to the new evidence. I bet he is watching the inquest and weaving more of his story.

yeah i thought about all this too

But i am also thinking if he was responsible in any way in assisting MBarter to change her name etc as it might seem so , did she come back and change her name again ..if he can get away with it i gather others can disappear this way .

So far there is no sign of violence or suggestion of murder etc so what happened to Marion ?

 

[othervee]

yes but i believe an alias as well

Yes, from the NAA file it seems Wouters is his birth name. He changed his name to F D dH by deed poll in 1976 shortly before marrying.

From the evidence about the bank on day 2 it seems he also uses his mother’s maiden surname now.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Pg 19 of NAA says he was Willy Wouters born in Belgium son of AW and MC. Arrived in Aus in 1969 and was married to IK. He was absent from Aus during 70-74 (we now know he was in jail in France among other things). Back in Aus, he changed his name via deed poll on 12 Feb 1976 to Frederick David de Hedervary. Seven days later on 20 Feb, he married DW. Three days after that (23 Feb 76), he applied for citizenship under new FDdH name.

Pg 21 of NAA says he departed Aus on 28 July 76 as he claimed his father was sick. However French police report says he was convicted for a year. Returned 17 March 77. Departed 22 March 77. Convicted in France again. Returned 14 Aug 78. Had a son in Aus in 79. Departed 6 Feb 80. Had a daughter in Luxembourg in 81. Returned 18 Nov 81. Departed Dec 81. Returned 2 Jan 82.