Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #21

[KiwiNZ]

Do you think there was more to aka's plan?

For example, perhaps after the $80k, he intended to make it look as though MB returned overseas? That way, it would solidify the story of her running off o/s wth a lover and no-one would look for her in Australia.

Do you think AH knew how the name change on passports worked ? that the new name is linked to the old name so the person is traceable under their old name ? He got away with so much for so long with his name changes did it even occur to him that police could still track Marion's travel movements as FR.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Do you think AH knew how the name change on passports worked ? that the new name is linked to the old name so the person is traceable under their old name ? He got away with so much for so long with his name changes did it even occur to him that police could still track Marion's travel movements as FR.

You raise a very good point!

If aka didn’t know FNMR passport was linked to MB name, and he believed marion was truly travelling undercover, then there’d be no need for him to have someone impersonate Marion or her handwriting on the passenger cards. It means MB really did return to Oz.

However, if we believe aka got someone to impersonate marion on the return flight, and planted the passenger cards to make it seem she was still alive, then that would mean aka DID know the FNMR passport was linked to MB name, and he knew it would be used to determine her movements and proof of life.

 

[mishy66]

Do you think AH knew how the name change on passports worked ? that the new name is linked to the old name so the person is traceable under their old name ? He got away with so much for so long with his name changes did it even occur to him that police could still track Marion's travel movements as FR.

The thing is that no one was looking for her new name for so many years.
So by the time anyone made any connection at all, he would be long gone.

It was only a paper ad that connected the name so the chances of that was slim right.?

I still dont believe she came back though, after hopping from one side of the fence to another for a while, nup she didnt return to Aust.

And he used so many aliases for travel, he would have known how useless the border control was in Australia at the time

Jmo

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Updated timeline to reflect RB's date of move in 1997. We previously had 'by end of year', now we know by end of October (source is Joni) so they moved within two weeks from when $80k was taken.

Sat 2 Aug - MB arrives in Oz. Is married, a resident of Luxembourg, and intends to stay in Oz just 8 days to see family.
Thu 7 Aug - MB cancels her car insurance.
Sat 9 / Sun 10 Aug - For unknown reason’s, MB doesn’t leave Oz as originally planned.
Mon 11 Aug - RB buys a car.
Wed 13 Aug - MB uses her medicare at an optometrist in Grafton.
Withdrawals start at Byron Bay either Fri 15 Aug or Mon 18 Aug with a few days at Burleigh Heads.
Thu 14 Oct - RB opens safety envelope at CBA Ballina.
Wed 15 Oct - $80k withdrawal/transfer from State Bank Ashmore.
Sat 18 Oct - Owen’s birthday, Marion didn't call.
Mon 20/Tue 21 Oct - SL goes to Byron Bay to look for MB, speaks to bank and police.
By Sun 26 Oct - RB + family moved from Wollingbar back to East Ballina.

Edited to 'by 26 Oct' as per @mishy66 post below. Thanks mishy!

 

[mishy66]

MBFB Page

We now have information that confirms that by the 26th of October, 1997, Ric Blum had moved from Wollongbar to East Ballina. It could have been much earlier too. From a 3-bedroom family home with a study and backyard that both Ric and Diane insisted they needed for accommodate their teenage children in Wollongbar to a pokey little villa unit, at the front of the block facing the road. This was 11 days after approximately $80,000 was withdrawn from Marion's bank account in Byron Bay, NSW, 20 minutes up the road from there ... Why move ?

The next house move is in early 1999. This move was from Unit 6, to Unit 1 in the same unit block. A nicer unit , yes , sea views, pathway to the beach and a little larger. This move happened exactly a week after Ginette Gaffney-Bowan was successful in her AVO against Ric Blum and a private investigator (that I have spoken with a number of times), was chasing Ric Blum for Ginette's $28,500. Ric could literally have seen the private investigator banging on Unit 6's door from his window ! ... why move ?

Next is Janet Oldenburg, at the time he meet Janet at Evans Head for a coffee in October, 1999, Ric was still living in Unit 1. Janet's house settlement was complete shortly afterwards and off they went to England, allegedly armed with all of her identity documents and her suitcase with three locks on it. After being left stranded in the UK and coming home, a very detailed statement is taken from Janet by Coraki police in early January 2000.

Investigations commence including the suggestion by the NSW Police investigator that Ric Blum may intend "using her identification documents for illegal transactions or to assist him to enable another female to assume Ms. Oldenburg's identity". There is also talk of outstanding warrants from way back in the 1980s too.

Twelve days after the investigation commences into Janet's allegations, Ric changes his address to The George Hotel in George street, Sydney ... again, why move ?

In summary, what I am saying is that if Ric Blum had "nothing to do with Marion Barter after she left Australia in June 1997" why did he move house 11 days after Marion's money is gone from her bank, eight days since she missed her son Owen's birthday, 12 days after he opened up a safety deposit facility at the Commonwealth Bank in Ballina ?

Just like he did after ending the relationship with Ginette Gaffney-Bowan and just like he did after ending the relationship with Janet Oldenburg in the following three years ...

So the question I have, Ric Blum (as I know you read every word) ... why move ? what were you concerned about ? That your activities would catch up with you ? If you had nothing to with Marion after she left, why did you decide to move house again to a tiny flat ?

Patterns repeat. We are all creatures of habit after all. Joni



Chickens are roosting!

Diane De Hedervary you know dont you.
All that money for all the moving, all the upheaval for the kids, not to mention Maites property that came along after Marions money was stolen. The "childrens inheritance " as AH put it.

He moved to the hotel to do the coin shuffle from his little side job of mail sorting.
And Diane knows nothing?

Come on. They all know something.

Property portfolio is huge for 2 people on Government handouts.


No wonder the family are not budging.
After all these women, and still no word at the station.

More information from back here about their movements

 

[Deleted member 249471]

@mishy66 do you know when they moved to Wollingbar?
I was trying to determine if they broke lease or not.

At inquest, it was said they lived in Wollingbar for almost a year.
But also that they moved to Wollingbar end of 1996 and after 12 months, they moved back to Ballina.

 

[KiwiNZ]

The thing is that no one was looking for her new name for so many years.
So by the time anyone made any connection at all, he would be long gone.

It was only a paper ad that connected the name so the chances of that was slim right.?

I still dont believe she came back though, after hopping from one side of the fence to another for a while, nup she didnt return to Aust.

And he used so many aliases for travel, he would have known how useless the border control was in Australia at the time

Jmo

It was Sallys customs friend who found Marions movements by her real name. They didn't mention to Sally the name change just that she had returned, but I assume that's the same way the police found her years later (under FR) when they bothered to take a proper look.

I don't think it really makes a difference to the case, but I was wondering if he actually thought the name change would make her movements untraceable by anyone looking ie: the police.

He would have found out pretty quickly that she was traceable, if we believe he got wind of Sally looking for her mother, via the bank or police and maybe this stopped him using this scam for future victims.

 

[*juniper*]

You raise a very good point!

If aka didn’t know FNMR passport was linked to MB name, and he believed marion was truly travelling undercover, then there’d be no need for him to have someone impersonate Marion or her handwriting on the passenger cards. It means MB really did return to Oz.

However, if we believe aka got someone to impersonate marion on the return flight, and planted the passenger cards to make it seem she was still alive, then that would mean aka DID know the FNMR passport was linked to MB name, and he knew it would be used to determine her movements and proof of life.

I have always believed that it was MB who returned to Australia. And that AKA was trying to make it appear she had disappeared while in the UK. And it is possible that she was meant to vanish overseas, which would have left family looking for MB when all her travel records were under FNMR.

I also believe in 1997 DFAT was responsible for issuing passports, Immigration ‘owned’ the systems that recorded movements into & from Australia and Customs were responsible for managing the airport border & entering travel details into the Immigration movements system. So there were 3 separate govt departments involved, all using pre-Y2K computer systems, leaving lots of room for error. We really need someone who understands the systems that were in use back then, and what could go wrong. Joni also reports how AKA appears to have travelled in and out of Australia without showing up on movement records - MOO this is what he planned for MB.

So, if the new FNMR passport was not linked to MB immigration record, then the best way to identify MB would be to check the departing passenger cards on the day of departure. Except her pax card was in her new name, her occupation as home duties, she was flying with Korean Airlines, heading to Luxembourg, etc. JMO, but it would be easy to miss the DOB, and therefore fail to link this pax card with MB.

With regard to Immigration, there are 2 very distressing cases where Australian citizens were illegally held in immigration detention as the Dept was unable to identify them due to deficiencies in their records & systems. Very different situations to MB, but it shows inadequacies in immigration record management systems that I believe AKA was seeking to exploit. JMO

 

[mishy66]

I have always believed that it was MB who returned to Australia. And that AKA was trying to make it appear she had disappeared while in the UK. And it is possible that she was meant to vanish overseas, which would have left family looking for MB when all her travel records were under FNMR.

I also believe in 1997 DFAT was responsible for issuing passports, Immigration ‘owned’ the systems that recorded movements into & from Australia and Customs were responsible for managing the airport border & entering travel details into the Immigration movements system. So there were 3 separate govt departments involved, all using pre-Y2K computer systems, leaving lots of room for error. We really need someone who understands the systems that were in use back then, and what could go wrong. Joni also reports how AKA appears to have travelled in and out of Australia without showing up on movement records - MOO this is what he planned for MB.

So, if the new FNMR passport was not linked to MB immigration record, then the best way to identify MB would be to check the departing passenger cards on the day of departure. Except her pax card was in her new name, her occupation as home duties, she was flying with Korean Airlines, heading to Luxembourg, etc. JMO, but it would be easy to miss the DOB, and therefore fail to link this pax card with MB.

With regard to Immigration, there are 2 very distressing cases where Australian citizens were illegally held in immigration detention as the Dept was unable to identify them due to deficiencies in their records & systems. Very different situations to MB, but it shows inadequacies in immigration record management systems that I believe AKA was seeking to exploit. JMO

Aside from her coming back, I agree with all you say.
Exploitation is the name of his game

So many twists and turns!

Be good to have MORE of the information known to the MB team for us to explore.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Aside from her coming back, I agree with all you say.
Exploitation is the name of his game

So many twists and turns!

Be good to have MORE of the information known to the MB team for us to explore.

Mishy, do you believe the returning passenger cards are in Marion's handwriting? I may have missed your reasoning for that. Just trying to understand your point of view

 

[charliethecat]

Just to add to the timeline @post 924
27/10/1997 RB closes safety envelope at CBA Ballina.

If there was $$$ in the envelope it would come in handy to meet any moving expenses

 

[Deleted member 249471]

The fact envelope was closed on Mon 27 Oct is bonkers!
I updated timeline to include departure dates, when sally vs police claim missing report was made, and car sale.

Thu 31 Jul - RB arrives in Oz as Richard Lloyd Westbury after being o/s for 6 weeks (departed Tue 17 June).
Sat 2 Aug - MB arrives in Oz after being o/s for 6 weeks (departed Sun 22 June). She is now married, a resident of Luxembourg, and intends to stay just 8 days to see family.
Thu 7 Aug - MB cancels her car insurance.
Sat 9 / Sun 10 Aug - For unknown reason’s, MB doesn’t leave Oz as originally planned.
Mon 11 Aug - RB buys a car.
Wed 13 Aug - MB uses her medicare at an optometrist in Grafton.
Fri 15 Aug or Mon 18 Aug - Daily withdrawals start at Byron Bay with a few days at Burleigh Heads, goes on for possibly 3.5 weeks.
Sep - There seems to be a gap in activity between mid September and mid October, at least nothing revealed to public.
Thu 14 Oct - RB opens safety envelope at CBA Ballina.
Wed 15 Oct - $80k withdrawal/transfer from State Bank Ashmore.
Sat 18 Oct - Owen’s birthday, Marion didn't call.
Mon 20 Oct - SL goes to Byron Bay to look for MB and speaks to bank and police.
Wed 22 Oct - When Byron Bay police say SL first approached them.
By Sun 26 Oct - RB + family moved from Wollingbar back to East Ballina.
Mon 27 Oct - RB closes safety envelope at CBA Ballina.
By Sun 30 Nov - DdH claims the car purchased in Aug was sold, but records show car registered to their family until 2001.

 

[Laughing]

I don't read this thread for detail, click on the last page to see what you all have discovered -- didn't realize that dear Sally went to that bank & the police department 5 days after her mother & no one helped her!!!

That's horrible on a whole 'nuther level, imho.

Have a lovely warm Christmas, hope you get to the beach, my southern-hemisphere buddies!

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[Ooohm]

When I think of the Byron Bay police station circa October 1997 all I see is misdirection, a form of helpfulness designed to lead one away from truth toward another conclusion, and to thwart progress. Maybe someone in the bank was helpful in the same sense. I don’t know.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think Marion figured out that he was a conman and confronted him and possibly tried to call police or get to a police station.
Unlike the others he didn't have a chance to get away before they realised something was up.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

The fact envelope was closed on Mon 27 Oct is bonkers!
I updated timeline to include departure dates, when sally vs police claim missing report was made, and car sale.

Thu 31 Jul - RB arrives in Oz as Richard Lloyd Westbury after being o/s for 6 weeks (departed Tue 17 June).
Sat 2 Aug - MB arrives in Oz after being o/s for 6 weeks (departed Sun 22 June). She is now married, a resident of Luxembourg, and intends to stay just 8 days to see family.
Thu 7 Aug - MB cancels her car insurance.
Sat 9 / Sun 10 Aug - For unknown reason’s, MB doesn’t leave Oz as originally planned.
Mon 11 Aug - RB buys a car.
Wed 13 Aug - MB uses her medicare at an optometrist in Grafton.
Fri 15 Aug or Mon 18 Aug - Daily withdrawals start at Byron Bay with a few days at Burleigh Heads, goes on for possibly 3.5 weeks.
Sep - There seems to be a gap in activity between mid September and mid October, at least nothing revealed to public.
Thu 14 Oct - RB opens safety envelope at CBA Ballina.
Wed 15 Oct - $80k withdrawal/transfer from State Bank Ashmore.
Sat 18 Oct - Owen’s birthday, Marion didn't call.
Mon 20 Oct - SL goes to Byron Bay to look for MB and speaks to bank and police.
Wed 22 Oct - When Byron Bay police say SL first approached them.
By Sun 26 Oct - RB + family moved from Wollingbar back to East Ballina.
Mon 27 Oct - RB closes safety envelope at CBA Ballina.
By Sun 30 Nov - DdH claims the car purchased in Aug was sold, but records show car registered to their family until 2001.

Here's something I left out of the timeline, but is really important:

According to Sally, about a week after she went to police, she received a call from a man she believed was a policeman AND the same policeman she made the missing person’s report to.

The policeman said he found Marion and that she didn’t want anyone to know where she was or what she was doing.

Because of this interaction from an authority so early on, Marion’s sisters believed what the police allegedly said in that call, and just wanted Sally and their dad to leave it alone.

At inquest, that police officer said he doesn't remember making that call to Sally. He said if he did make the call, he would assume he would have written it in his notes (on the computer system), and if he failed to write the call in his notes, then he failed Sally.

This police officer had been in the force for 20 years when MB disappeared and left the force just 5 years after MB disappeared.

As an aside, we know the bank manager, who lives in Grafton, is or was married to a Byron Bay police officer. It hasn't been specified yet if it was this police officer.

 

[mishy66]

Mishy, do you believe the returning passenger cards are in Marion's handwriting? I may have missed your reasoning for that. Just trying to understand your point of view

Australia - Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #18

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/marion-barter-mystery-ric-blum-a-firstclass-manipulator-and-firstclass-liar/news-story/084070c496284b9f4bb0518b5b018a4e?amp Ric Blum .. first-class manipulator and liar

www.websleuths.com

Always said he got the women to fill out cards and held onto them. This was in the inquest.
He, Diane and other women testified to such.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I think Marion figured out that he was a conman and confronted him and possibly tried to call police or get to a police station.
Unlike the others he didn't have a chance to get away before they realised something was up.

I just hope that if she did go to police, it wasn't Byron Bay

 

[KinseyFan]

What a tangled web he weaves. Enlisting/bribing/threatening Individual players for singular tasks. Collecting and spreading dirt on people. Assigning seemingly random tasks. Playing the systems, loopholes, unsuspecting people. Like an animal. Or more like a bacteria. Sub human. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[KinseyFan]

What a tangled web he weaves. Enlisting/bribing/threatening Individual players for singular tasks. Collecting and spreading dirt on people. Assigning seemingly random tasks. Playing the systems, loopholes, unsuspecting people. Like an animal. Or more like a bacteria. Sub human. Just my opinion, of course.

And the lies. All the lies. And all the theft, the creating a false sense of urgency, the gas lighting and other coercive control and con tactics. If no accountability/justice, how will aged care/respite care residents be protected when he ends up in that system? Just my opinion.