Australia - Martin Place siege: 2 Hostages killed in Lindt Chocolate shop, Dec 2014 - #2

[SouthAussie]

Ex-championship tennis player John O'Brien (85 year old man) was the first hostage that enabled himself and some others to escape ... interesting read. He is convinced the gunman was insane, and the gunman had barricaded himself behind chairs and tables with 3 women standing in front of them providing a human shield from the snipers.


"O'Brien said he stood with his hands on the window for 30 minutes, or maybe 45 — it was hard to tell — before telling the gunman how old he was and saying he needed to sit down.

Monis complained but relented, allowing O'Brien and a few others to sit.

O'Brien quietly slipped out of his seat and sat on the floor. He'd noticed a small gap between the wall and a large advertising placard .... He struggled, trying several times and failing. Finally, he made it through. Now the placard was obscuring him from the gunman. He lay down, looking up at a large green button. But he wasn't sure if it would open the glass doors.

He reached up and pushed the green button and a moment later, at 3:37 pm, he was free."

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-si...ded-to-make-a-run-for-it-20141217-128wcu.html

 

[Ausgirl]

3 women standing in front of them providing a human shield from the snipers.

Well, that'd explain why the snipers didn't take a shot.

 

[Ausgirl]

Meanwhile, in Pakistan the Taliban has stormed a school, and have murdered 148 people. The murderers had AK47's and bombs strapped to their bodies. All the killers are now dead.

132 of the victims were students. They were shot one by one, some died in explosions.

Female teachers were burned alive in front of the kids.

This atrocity has gotten very little attention here on WS. That makes me sad.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?265615-Pakistani-Taliban-Attack-School

One of the comments I made on that thread is : we need to quit thinking in terms of Muslims vs Christians, and think instead in terms of EVERYONE vs The Taliban (ISIS, all other extremists).

They're like a horrible disease. They need to be removed from among us.

Haron, however, wasn't IMO any kind of extremist. He was an opportunist. And a sadist.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

New details emerging answered a lot of questions for me, but I am worried that Katrina Dawson could have been shot by a stray police bullet, I think there have been a number of hints alluding to that possibility now.

 

[SouthAussie]

New details emerging answered a lot of questions for me, but I am worried that Katrina Dawson could have been shot by a stray police bullet, I think there have been a number of hints alluding to that possibility now.

I have been wondering about that too, Mrs G. Bullets may have been ricochetting around the cafe, and hit a few people ... like the other people who also suffered gunshot wounds.

Tough situation. The special forces hands were tied, they had to get in there once gunshots were heard. They no doubt tried their best to avoid any hostages, but bullets do ricochet.

 

[Ausgirl]

New details emerging answered a lot of questions for me, but I am worried that Katrina Dawson could have been shot by a stray police bullet, I think there have been a number of hints alluding to that possibility now.

Been wondering about that, myself.

I truly hope not. The police were doing absolutely everything they could to keep those people alive. Their response and management of the situation was outstanding.

If it turns out to be the case, it'll just compound the tragedy for all concerned. But I won't be putting blame on the officers.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I wont be blaming officers either, it's just one of those things that happens when there is gunfire flying in all directions, I think the media are already aware of it, and have been hinting. Monis had a shotgun, so it would be easy to tell the difference between pellet and bullet wounds.

 

[SouthAussie]

Let's face it .. there is only one person to blame for this tragedy (well ... the courts could take a look at themselves, too).

Everyone else was brave, outstanding, and doing their absolute best.

 

[drsleuth]

The person who held these beautiful people hostage was responsible the deaths. Full stop. No matter where the bullets came from...........

If it comes out that it was a bullet from the police, I certainly hope that no one "blames" the police.....they did an outstanding job & I'm amazed that there were not more fatalities............the police will "beat" themselves up enough, as will the ambos. As a professional, you are highly trained, but always question whether you could have done something differently.....the what if's even when you know that the injuries were life threatening & no amount of "intervention" would have saved these people.

How many hostages were left in the cafe when the gun fire began??

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Wouldn't his wife know he was up to no good, Monis sawing off the end of a shotgun, carrying it in a large bag and heading off early? I'm sure she was in on the conspiracy but it will be hard to prove, unfortunately. She'll probably say she is a victim of his as well. :shakehead:

Monis didn't have a gun license, so he either bought the shotgun illegally on the black market or borrowed/stole it off someone else.

JMO


http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-si...e-gun-licence-nsw-police-20141217-129bg7.html

 

[Ausgirl]

I am absolutely sure that foul woman knew exactly what he was up to. She was a massive support to him in promoting the idea that rape victims ask for it, etc. and appears to have either killed his first wife for him, or taken the brunt of the blame for it. I don't see why she wouldn't have helped him out on this.

She's as sick and twisted as he was. Pity we can't hang her.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I wonder why she wasn't there?

 

[sleepinoz]

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw...tages-weaknesses/story-fnj3rq0y-1227160119584

WHEN the door lock inside the Lindt Chocolat Cafe was smashed and some of the hostages ran for their lives, Louisa Hope could not go too.

Even if she wanted to risk it, she couldn’t. She didn’t have the energy needed.

Stricken by multiple sclerosis and requiring a walking stick to get around, the 50-year-old hostage had to bide her time, her physical condition compounded by her sheer exhaustion from the humiliating role the gunman forced her to perform.

The 50-year-old was his human shield, dragged with the gunman every time he moved his position.

Even when his eyelids became heavy, his grip remained on Ms Hope.

A woman who couldn’t fight back. A woman who couldn’t run.

Proof, if there is any need, of his inherent evil.

 

[Meryl12]

I wonder why Police snipers did not take Haron Monis out. There were plenty of opportunities, the television cameras filmed him walking back and forth by the windows, often stopping in front of the windows for a few minutes ranting at the hostages. There were plenty of opportunities for a sniper to take him out.
Instead a courageous hostage Tori Johnson gave his life to tackle Haron Monis, he paid the ultimate price. It did not have to be that way, the snipers should have taken him out, and no-one needed to die (except the gunman). There were plenty of opportunities!!!
I hope that question is asked------why didn't the snipers take him out?? ------why did a hostage have to give his life to end it??
It didn't end right.

 

[Ausgirl]

I wonder why Police snipers did not take Haron Monis out. There were plenty of opportunities, the television cameras filmed him walking back and forth by the windows, often stopping in front of the windows for a few minutes ranting at the hostages. There were plenty of opportunities for a sniper to take him out.
Instead a courageous hostage Tori Johnson gave his life to tackle Haron Monis, he paid the ultimate price. It did not have to be that way, the snipers should have taken him out, and no-one needed to die (except the gunman). There were plenty of opportunities!!!
I hope that question is asked------why didn't the snipers take him out?? ------why did a hostage have to give his life to end it??
It didn't end right.

...read the posts above -- he was using hostages as shields, is why --- also, they could not be sure he wasn't strapped with explosives.

I am very sure that if taking a shot without risk to innocents was possible, they'd have done it.

 

[drsleuth]

I wonder why Police snipers did not take Haron Monis out. There were plenty of opportunities, the television cameras filmed him walking back and forth by the windows, often stopping in front of the windows for a few minutes ranting at the hostages. There were plenty of opportunities for a sniper to take him out.
Instead a courageous hostage Tori Johnson gave his life to tackle Haron Monis, he paid the ultimate price. It did not have to be that way, the snipers should have taken him out, and no-one needed to die (except the gunman). There were plenty of opportunities!!!
I hope that question is asked------why didn't the snipers take him out?? ------why did a hostage have to give his life to end it??
It didn't end right.

Please don't blame the sniper ( who had his eyes & sniper gun in the gunman for a whole 16+ hours without wavering ) or all the brilliant , courageous police. There are many articles & expert people speaking on why they didn't take the gun man out via a sniper. They are linked in previous pages.

Here a links

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/how-sydne...s-a-bomb-in-his-backpack-20141217-129fqi.html

Watch the video in above link.

 

[drsleuth]

I wonder why she wasn't there?

Gutless coward :scared:

 

[sleepinoz]

I'm linking an article that was released earlier this morning, it has now been taken down - but the headline in the link tells you what it was about.

http://www.news.com.au/national/tor...estigation-shows/story-e6frfkp9-1227159840953

 

[sleepinoz]

Australian Federal Police confirms siege gunman did not have gun licence, admits it gave PM wrong information

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...id-not-have-a-gun-licence#XYowzrr8lQzJuOKq.99

 

[Meryl12]

Please don't blame the sniper ( who had his eyes & sniper gun in the gunman for a whole 16+ hours without wavering ) or all the brilliant , courageous police. There are many articles & expert people speaking on why they didn't take the gun man out via a sniper. They are linked in previous pages.

Here a links

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/how-sydne...s-a-bomb-in-his-backpack-20141217-129fqi.html

Watch the video in above link.

Thank you for your reply.
I had watched the whole thing unfold on television all day. But became tired and went to bed around 11pm, and did not see the ending at 2am.
The live television coverage did not give police strategies (of course). So I started wondering when I saw the gunman walking by the windows!! What!!
I did see the backpack he was wearing, but I also knew escaping hostages would provide info....only one gunman etc. ..don't know what is in the backpack..etc.
Now I know re-inforced glass, and a possible dead-man switch.
Thank you again for your reply.