GUILTY Australia - Morgan Huxley, 31, stabbed to death, Neutral Bay, NSW, 8 Sept 2013 #2

[SapphireSteel]

It's Jill Meagher all over again, just with Morgan in the starring role.

I also think there was nothing random about this - I think he was stalking Morgan and had been for a while.

:cow:

 

[BoxHead]

We discussed this a while back - the more superficial/shallow wounds may be simply due to fatigue - it takes a lot to inflict that many wounds on someone. And now that we know the killer's body type, even with adrenalin pumping, he is going to tire after inflicting even a small number of stab wounds.

He was stabbed 28 times. There were three deep wounds to the neck. The killer was an awesome shot to the neck but missed him 25 times to the back with superficial wounding.

Nobody can miss 25/28 but get the fatal blow in first/second time around (if he didn't get the fatal blows in the beginning MH would be fine) and miss the next 25 unless they have emphysema, cystic fibrosis, or drugged out of their minds.

I'm no more muscular than DK. I could stab someone 200 times in a frenzy without breaking a sweat. He would need to be severely disabled or have some kind of severe medical condition to be fatigued by that.

 

[Ausgirl]

I'm no more muscular than DK. I could stab someone 200 times in a frenzy without breaking a sweat.

I think I shall endeavour to agree with you more often, Box. :couch:

I think it depends on a few factors, but here I -do- agree with you. I don't think it was weariness which caused the shallow marks.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I know. The convicted rapist said he was just trying to be a friend to Jill in a public street late at night but she just gave him attitude.

So Borderline .. I wonder? http://outofthefog.net/Disorders/BPD.html

• Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. [Not including suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5]
• A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.
• Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.
• Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, promiscuous sex, eating disorders, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). [Again, not including suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5]
• Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior.
• Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)
• Chronic feelings of emptiness.
• Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).
• Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.

 

[Northern Beaches]

So let's say that DJK first stabs MH in the neck with a surprise attack. I would think that the blood spatter from that onto his glasses (and it has been reported that blood was detected on his glasses) would obstruct him from inflicting more serious wounds afterwards. Blood all over his glasses may also have put him off from inflicting a larger number of stabs.

 

[BoxHead]

I think I shall endeavour to agree with you more often, Box. :couch:

I think it depends on a few factors, but here I -do- agree with you. I don't think it was weariness which caused the shallow marks.

Thanks Ausgirl.

Is he a sociopath or someone with a personality disorder/hammered by society?

I feel sorry for MH. One way or another he has encountered someone you never want to meet.

 

[Strangeworld]

He was stabbed 28 times. There were three deep wounds to the neck. The killer was an awesome shot to the neck but missed him 25 times to the back with superficial wounding.

Nobody can miss 25/28 but get the fatal blow in first/second time around (if he didn't get the fatal blows in the beginning MH would be fine) and miss the next 25 unless they have emphysema, cystic fibrosis, or drugged out of their minds.

I'm no more muscular than DK. I could stab someone 200 times in a frenzy without breaking a sweat. He would need to be severely disabled or have some kind of severe medical condition to be fatigued by that.

They've clarified in the latest article that it is now 'more than a dozen times' so much less than we originally thought.

I have to say I disagree with you though on being able to inflict many wounds without tiring. I'm no expert myself (and no, haven't stabbed anyone) but I've seen plenty of forensic experts interviewed on this, and they nearly all say that of course adrenalin can give someone almost superhuman power, but the act of stabbing, particularly if the weapon is raised above the head, can result in less intense injuries as the wounds are delivered. So the first few are likely to be deep and with force, but as the attack progresses, the depth of the injury becomes less.

I certainly think the attack got out of control for whatever reason - stabbing is one thing but to slice at someone (if that's what happened - I'm frustrated with how MSM are describing the injuries at this point) seems almost like a frenzy. I don't think it's got anything to do with aim - I'm totally guessing here, but I would think the deep neck wounds (that probably proved fatal in the end) were the initial injuries. I could almost picture Morgan laying on his right side (as the latest article says the injuries were on his left side), maybe curled up in the foetal position as he was attacked.

 

[Yeawell]

So let's say that DJK first stabs MH in the neck with a surprise attack. I would think that the blood spatter from that onto his glasses (and it has been reported that blood was detected on his glasses) would obstruct him from inflicting more serious wounds afterwards. Blood all over his glasses may also have put him off from inflicting a larger number of stabs.

Just thinking...how does someone go several weeks after murdering someone without cleaning the blood of his glasses???

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Poor Morgan, it's so sad to think of his last moments like this. Imagine all the 'what ifs' his friends are going through

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Just thinking...how does someone go several weeks after murdering someone without cleaning the blood of his glasses???

He would have cleaned them, once the blood got into those little spaces between the lens and the frame it would have been impossible to get out without pulling them apart, even then the blood could have got down into the screws etc.

 

[Yeawell]

He would have cleaned them, once the blood got into those little spaces between the lens and the frame it would have been impossible to get out without pulling them apart, even then the blood could have got down into the screws etc.

Good point...it's been a long day lol

 

[BoxHead]

They've clarified in the latest article that it is now 'more than a dozen times' so much less than we originally thought.

I have to say I disagree with you though on being able to inflict many wounds without tiring.

More than a dozen times does not exclude 28 stab blows.

I'm no expert myself (and no, haven't stabbed anyone) but I've seen plenty of forensic experts interviewed on this, and they nearly all say that of course adrenalin can give someone almost superhuman power, but the act of stabbing, particularly if the weapon is raised above the head, can result in less intense injuries as the wounds are delivered.

Sure. I don't think lifting your arm and dropping a knife requires super human power.

So the first few are likely to be deep and with force, but as the attack progresses, the depth of the injury becomes less.

From 3 deep/fatal wounds to superficial wounds? I have a best mate with cystic fibrosis who finds this laughable (and they are nearly 40). And female????

I certainly think the attack got out of control for whatever reason - stabbing is one thing but to slice at someone (if that's what happened - I'm frustrated with how MSM are describing the injuries at this point) seems almost like a frenzy. I don't think it's got anything to do with aim - I'm totally guessing here, but I would think the deep neck wounds (that probably proved fatal in the end) were the initial injuries. I could almost picture Morgan laying on his right side (as the latest article says the injuries were on his left side), maybe curled up in the foetal position as he was attacked.

I don't think anything got out of control at all.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Good point...it's been a long day lol

It's Friday too! I wonder why he had them on too though? Did he put them back on 'after', also it seems like he was dressed because he was gone before JR rushed into the room moments later ..

 

[Flinders]

Poor Morgan, it's so sad to think of his last moments like this. Imagine all the 'what ifs' his friends are going through

His family, his mother, are going through nothing compared to his friends. His last moments were reported as shirt on. The memorial card showed a happy guy with a shirt off. I know nothing about crime but I have studied symbolism through Art. I know, 6 months I will never get back but it teaches critical thinking. Not about crime but how people are vested in a situation.

 

[Northern Beaches]

It's Friday too! I wonder why he had them on too though? Did he put them back on 'after', also it seems like he was dressed because he was gone before JR rushed into the room moments later ..

DJK probably would have needed his glasses before starting a frenzied attack.

JR seems like she would be an extremely polite housemate and would let MH have some privacy with a guest. After the attack DJK could have bolted for the front door. JR may have heard someone go through the front door and thought it would then be a good time to check up on MH only to find that he had been left for dead in a most confronting scene.

The point you make about DJK being fully clothed is a good one.

 

[Brightbird]

Oh boy, this case makes my head spin!

Yep, I thought of Jill Meagher instantly when I read that piece about DJK running to catch up with MH.

Having thought this over (and over) and based on what has been reported, this is what I think happened. MH was supposed to meet someone but they didn't show, hence the waiting around and drinking alone at the pub. DJK had seen MH around and had a crush on him/was stalking him. Seeing MH alone, he decided that was his opportunity and starts a conversation. MH probably recognised DJK. All goes well, they go back to MH's place, there's mutual attraction and they get busy in the bedroom. Then DJK offered his phone number or suggested a date. MH declined, perhaps in an insulting way, and DJK lost the plot. Though I think almost any way MH declined would have felt like a massive rejection to DJK.

I don't think they knew each other or arranged to meet because so far the police have indicated that DJK approached MH and stated there was no relationship between them. I don't think the murder was planned, especially if the flatmate was home.

However, I have another scenario in mind. They go back to MH's place and have a few drinks, discuss common interests or whatever. DJK makes a move on MH and is rejected and loses the plot. I think it's possible there was a sexual assault, which can happen very quickly. Maybe they were looking at something in MH's bedroom and DJK misread this? We have no idea what the police mean by "sexual activity". Somehow, DJK managed to stab MH up to 28 times without MH getting past him and raising the alarm. I have no idea how he managed this. I would think after one stab MH would react fiercely and get the hell away. Even with a stab to the neck, he should be able to get away before losing too much blood. But somehow he couldn't. I do think MH tried to fight back but if he couldn't get out of his room, it's not a huge stretch to me that DJK could have done something sexual to MH. But.....there has been no mention of a sexual assault in the media. So, for now, I'm back to my first scenario.

Also, I think police assumed it was a female until they got lab results back. Or they had a few samples and DJK's was the one they couldn't account for. Then they went back to the CCTV looking for a man. Seems like a rather significant detail to overlook but mistakes do happen.

 

[Ausgirl]

Just a thought about the majority of stab wound being on Morgan's left side... and mostly on his back.. What if DJK had all his weight on Morgan's right side, Morgan face down after his throat was slashed - drunk, in shock, weighed down, rapid stabs (thus shallow) - and DJK was up and away.

Someone suggested maybe the flatmate was roused by DJK leaving - good call. You know when you're asleep and something wakes you, but that's not the thing you actually hear when you're properly awake?

Maybe they were in Morgan's room so they didn't wake the flatmate. Last time I got luc.. er, had company, I did the same - skip the lounge, go hang out in my room, sleeping flatmate.

^ But I would do the same with anyone I came in with that late at night if we wanted to talk or play music, as sound really carries from the lounge.

 

[Brightbird]

He would have cleaned them, once the blood got into those little spaces between the lens and the frame it would have been impossible to get out without pulling them apart, even then the blood could have got down into the screws etc.

I agree, he probably cleaned them and there were still traces. But, if the attack was unplanned, could he have gone into some form of denial/fantasy? Just hide everything (literally and figuratively) and it will go away?

 

[BoxHead]

Oh boy, this case makes my head spin!

Yep, I thought of Jill Meagher instantly when I read that piece about DJK running to catch up with MH.

Having thought this over (and over) and based on what has been reported, this is what I think happened. MH was supposed to meet someone but they didn't show, hence the waiting around and drinking alone at the pub. DJK had seen MH around and had a crush on him/was stalking him. Seeing MH alone, he decided that was his opportunity and starts a conversation. MH probably recognised DJK. All goes well, they go back to MH's place, there's mutual attraction and they get busy in the bedroom. Then DJK offered his phone number or suggested a date. MH declined, perhaps in an insulting way, and DJK lost the plot. Though I think almost any way MH declined would have felt like a massive rejection to DJK.

DK caught up to MH on Watson St (I'm a local, he had at most 15 seconds before he entered his unit). The loner with no friends talked his way into MH's unit and got busy. After sex, having offered his number and being rejected he stabbed him numerous times feeling massively rejected?

He loses the plot and stabs him with a great deal of accuracy and then just keeps missing him 25 odd times. No way.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

OK hands up everyone who's picked up a random in a pub whilst drunk late at night and is now thinking 'oooh .. ' ?