Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 Mar 2020 #5 *charges*

[JudgeJudi]

Forensic specialists will commence their search among bushland over the coming days.

Family of pilot charged with murder of missing campers speak

 

[Satchie]

As with some others of you, I wasn't expecting someone like GL to be the (alleged) culprit. My guess was 2 or more younger guys, rough and tough, not too bright, maybe drunk and possibly unemployed. Who would have thought a family man and pilot?

IMO, a couple of young drunks would make a lot of mistakes and have been caught much earlier. I thought it was someone very cold-blooded, efficient and effective, so am not so surprised that he is a pilot. Pilots aren't hired for their inter-personal skills, or their empathy for other people. They have to be very self-confident, efficient, unfazed by danger.

I don't feel the motive would have been 'out of control' anger or rage, since pilots can't be emotionally reactive like that. Imagine if a pilot got 'plane rage' at finicky air traffic controllers or bumbling co-pilots...

IMO, psychopaths are motivated by deep hatred and contempt, rather than emotionally 'upset' feelings like being mad at someone. For example, a psychopath who always camped alone and had a Rambo-like self-image might be deeply contemptuous of an older couple fussing with a port-a-potty and so forth, in his territory.

But aside from whatever triggered it, IMO he had a well-laid plan and got some gratification from carrying it out.

Amateur opinion and speculation.

 

[Detective Willy]

Regarding Daily Mail story this morning (which I now think is wrong) indicating that GL disclosed where 2 x bodies are buried:

If GL has co-operated with Police - what was his incentive?
They have charged him with 2 x Murder not 2 x manslaughter. Not even 1 Murder and 1 Manslaughter.
GL is 55 years old so even with 2 x Manslaughter would be looking at 40 years. Looking at life behind bars anyway.
At the press conference Police said it was very complicated and may take years to sort out etc.

This does not sound like GL is giving them info to assist or it would be more simple. Least of all giving Police the most important info that they need (where Russell and Carol are) but not disclosing where the trailer is?

I do think the reporter at the Daily Mail jumped the gun and led us up the wrong path this morning.

I'm sticking with my theory that he has told them nothing and made no admissions. If they don't find bodies or the trailer this case could be 100% circumstantial and hard to prove?

Bail was probably 1000/1 against anyway so Lawyer advised him not to bother applying this morning because of the serious charges that he is facing and the prosecution being given more time to put all of the evidence together due to the complicated and rare nature of this case?

 

[JayWill]

Yes, a lot of people walk on tracks but we never did. I've seen more snakes in my backyard than I ever have in the bush. We've had death adders, brown snakes and one red belly black snake, plus a lot of other critters.

He may have driven along a track and stopped at a suitable location where he could drag them a very short distance so they wouldn't be visible from the track. Alternatively he could have chosen a track that he knew was rarely travelled and dumped/buried them there.

As LE said the vegetation was thick, that suggests to me that they were dumped/buried away from the track, but by the same token he had to be able to drive there.

Really? you go walking through the undergrowth?

 

[JudgeJudi]

Really? you go walking through the undergrowth?

Absolutely. That's kids' stuff compared to where I've walked. If you knew you'd be amazed, but it's off topic and my post would be deleted.

 

[Awakening]

Done

For some reason I feel a connection with Lisa, even though I never knew her. Maybe because she's a mum of 2 boys like me. If it turns out GL was involved, I hope she finally gets justice.

 

[Belleandsebastian]

My feeling is that if GL was caught doing something like illegal hunting, or if he got mad and shot the drone then he could have been worried about possible charges affecting his job as a pilot, as I imagine that any charges could lead to a suspension. He might have been worried about RH and CC reporting him and that could have been a motive to get rid of them.

 

[Arboreal]

Regarding Daily Mail story this morning (which I now think is wrong) indicating that GL disclosed where 2 x bodies are buried:

If GL has co-operated with Police - what was his incentive?
...
I'm sticking with my theory that he has told them nothing and made no admissions. If they don't find bodies or the trailer this case could be 100% circumstantial and hard to prove?

Bail was probably 1000/1 against anyway so Lawyer advised him not to bother applying this morning because of the serious charges that he is facing and the prosecution being given more time to put all of the evidence together due to the complicated and rare nature of this case?

It is not uncommon for killers to confess once they are questioned and particularly if they can be shown that their denials are non-sensical. I recall the killers of Anita Cobby confessed.
It is likely he did not apply for bail because it is rarely given in murder cases or manslaughter cases.
I agree with your theory that he has provided minimal assistance to investigators.
My hunch is that this investigation has been driven more or less completely by interviewing other people in the valley at the time and technical evidence, such as metadata from photos, phones, dashcams, CCTV, and so on. They may also be DNA. For instance Mr Hill and Ms Clay's wallets were found on the floor of Mr Hill's 4WD; the cards were spilled on the floor but, according to one witness bank card and credit cards and cash were missing. In doing that the perpetrator may have left DNA.
I can't recall if the police said the shovels were significant and provided information.
There is a somewhat sensationalised and borderline lurid report in Channel nine's Under investigation: The High Country Mystery [you will need to make an account but it is free]. This provides a bit of a time line and speaks to people who were in the valley. One person recalls speaking to a blackberry sprayer who appears to be the last person to see Mr Hill and Ms Clay (apart from their killer, that is) and that they were flying a drone.
The case may well be largely circumstantial but there may be some direct linking evidence. We will have to see. The murder charge suggests the police believe they have sufficient information to sustain a murder charge. For the accused, the prosecution do not need to prove motive, only intent: not why he did it but that he intended to kill them. The prosecution need to place him in the valley, at the time, near the victims when they were likely killed (I saw one report that police have narrowed this to about an hour and a half to two hours from 18:45) and if possible, near the disposal site for their bodies. If he has not told them where it is, then the police have deduced that from other, likely technical evidence. So, for instance, suppose he had a GPS and it can be shown to be the accused and in his possession at the time, and it shows that his vehicle paused near the place where the bodies were found, then that does look suspicious and suggestive that he was involved in the disposal of the bodies. The prosecution have to make the case that it is "beyond a reasonable doubt" and if all these "coincidences" pile up and there is no alternative explanation, then the jury can conclude beyond a reasonable doubt. The only way in such a circumstance to avoid a murder conviction is to argue insanity or provocation or mistaken identity (I was not there, yer honour....). In the case of insanity or provocation, in some states the defendant has to provide their plea; I do not know what it is in Victoria.
One feels so much for the families and the victims but the consolation is they may have some degree of closure. And I have to say, also Mr Lynn's family who must also be going through a personal hell.
Anyway, it is going to be fascinating to see how the prosecution and defence develop.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

That's my thinking, that they have DNA from inside the 4WD.
Maybe on the inside door handles as well. Not sure about the outside of the vehicle.

He may even have hidden their credit cards at his house. Maybe other items as well that belonged to Russell and Carol.

They may also be DNA. For instance Mr Hill and Ms Clay's wallets were found on the floor of Mr Hill's 4WD; the cards were spilled on the floor but, according to one witness bank card and credit cards and cash were missing. In doing that the perpetrator may have left DNA.

 

[emirates1957]

My feeling is that if GL was caught doing something like illegal hunting, or if he got mad and shot the drone then he could have been worried about possible charges affecting his job as a pilot, as I imagine that any charges could lead to a suspension. He might have been worried about RH and CC reporting him and that could have been a motive to get rid of them.

You must have overheard my conversation this morning. A good friend who enjoys shooting (don’t quite get it ….however), camping, fishing etc ….he’s thoughts were that the drone got a little too close to GL who for what ever reason maybe have been doing something suss …. If reported may have affected him getting a security pass. Also could you image the current wife and children having no idea of what he has been doing would be in total shock.

 

[inkpink]

I don’t think he’d have shot the gas bottle, what would be the point? He’d have to still go and set the campsite on fire, and by then most of the gas would’ve leaked out. Don’t believe what you see in the movies. I reckon a better bet is that he turned the gas on slow inside the tent and lit a fire, hoping the leaking gas would fuel it.

I actually wonder if he got annoyed by the drone and shot it out of the air. That would’ve made Russell furious and provoked a fight.

I think there has to be a reason he burnt up the campsite, such as destroying evidence ie. DNA which could point to the an alercation happening right there.

Or I guess it's possible he caused the damage to the campsite as an act of revenge, when the campers weren't there and an altercation ensued resulting in Russell and Carol's deaths.

I think if it was a planned attack he would of done it elsewhere, when they were off walking rather than leaving an obvious crime scene behind.

IMO, this was an act done in anger, if not then he's not too bright I reckon!

 

[Walk A Mile]

That's what I'm wondering as well, what would his motive have been - it appears as per the article that GL left her for another woman and they weren't even living together then.

Sometimes people are in danger from their ex if they are perceived as happy or moving on. To a controlling personality, it doesn't matter who initiated the split.

 

[BrumbyJack]

There are a handful of walking/hiking tracks up there.

There are not any walking tracks as such up there. 4WD tracks yes but not walking tracks to my knowledge.

 

[The Observer]

NoCookies | The Australian
The family of a man accused of murdering missing Victorian campers Carol Clay and Russell Hill has broken their silence following his first court appearance. Jetstar pilot Greg Lynn, 55, was charged with two counts of murder overnight and fronted court for the first time on Friday.

Intimate details of Lynn’s past and family have been leaked in the media in recent days, prompting the family to speak for the first time. In a statement via their lawyers, the family asked for privacy and acknowledged the Clay and Hill families were suffering.

“We accept the media have an interest in proceedings, however, we do request that our privacy be preserved,” the family said. “It has been distressing for our family and the families of the deceased and we are completely traumatised as well by these tragic events. “We need to deal with the legal proceedings as they arise and try to restore some balance in our lives.”

 

[SouthAussie]

So he now has 6 months of sitting in big boy prison, waiting for his committal hearing.


"Soon after the court appearance, a prison van was seen arriving at Sale police station.
Lynn was brought up from his cell and bundled into the truck before the heavy security gates opened and he was driven away."
Family of man accused of murdering missing campers Greg Lynn breaks silence

 

[BrumbyJack]

I wonder if he is being held out at Fulham? (10 mins from Sale) Or up to Melbourne? I don’t think he’ll have an easy time of it, no matter where he goes.

So he now has 6 months of sitting in big boy prison, waiting for his committal hearing.


"Soon after the court appearance, a prison van was seen arriving at Sale police station.
Lynn was brought up from his cell and bundled into the truck before the heavy security gates opened and he was driven away."
Family of man accused of murdering missing campers Greg Lynn breaks silence

 

[Zabble]

IMO it is extremely rare for an event like this to happen anywhere in the world.

Offender aged in mid 50's with no criminal record. Multiple victims aged in their 70s and being unknown to the offender. Crimes taking place outside of a domestic place. Not gang or group related. Not drug related. Not race related. Not robbery or financially related.

Murder rates have been steadily dropping since the 90's and is largely attributed to CCTV and mobile phones.

"If" you were a modern day serial killer you may likely go to very remote places like this with no CCTV and no mobile phone coverage to select victims. You might wait until the perfect opportunity arose, many serial killers escalate so this could be the first time there has been multiple victims.

I believe that leopards do not change their spots. People do not suddenly "snap" in their mid 50's without having a history of snapping before. I do not see Russell and Carol initiating this confrontation, they were an elderly retired couple seeming to want some quiet time away.

I am sure investigators will be looking at what this suspect has been doing for the last 30 years. Where he has been camping before (when by himself) and if anyone has disappeared into thin air in the times he has been in the vicinity. Has there been events in his life that may have triggered violent behavior at the same time people have gone missing. eg. loss of job or being stood down, breakdown of relationship etc. How long has he carried guns?

They have to build a case proving that he murdered Russell and Carol first and hopefully their bodies are found soon.

All of this IMO of course.

100% agree. Notwithstanding the previous wife who died suddenly, I wouldn't be surprised if we find other missing / murdered people within a remarkable radius of where GL has been known to travel and camp

 

[Kemug]

Time hasn’t been kind

View attachment 324087 View attachment 324088

It never is!

 

[Zabble]

I thought that too. I expected manslaughter. Even just one manslaughter charge and then another charge later.

Police publicly proposed the accident scenario. But I wonder if they actually believe that scenario. Perhaps they came up with this more palatable scenario to get him to talk?

In the case of William Tyrrell, NSW have suggested a fall from a balcony and some have said this scenario is unlikely and might be a strategy to get their suspect to talk.

Good thinking. Makes me think of the Chris Watts case - police suggested to him that his wife perhaps killed the kids and then understandably he snapped at the wife. That planted a seed and next thing Chris confesses to his dad that he killed his wife because she killed the girls.

Very possible that LE planted the seed of the argument to give GL a way out - they could have hoped that he would use that and confess to killing them in self-defence during an argument. Once they get him to confess to killing in self-defence they just have to tear down the self-defence bit and nail him for what it actually was... murder

 

[The Observer]

I wonder if he is being held out at Fulham? (10 mins from Sale) Or up to Melbourne? I don’t think he’ll have an easy time of it, no matter where he goes.

Melbourne Remand Centre in Protection Unit