Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 Mar 2020 #6 *charges*

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Ssschu said:
I have a really hard time believing none of the other campers heard this major scuffle before or after CC was shot. I can only imagine the sound RH would have made when she was shot. I think it's more plausible that GL was fuming about the campsite situation and ambushed them. I don't believe any of it was accidental.
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It is quite a big area and there are many campsites that are 1,2,3 km apart, so there may have been no one close by at all. Gunshots would go un noticed as there are a lot of deer hunters that camp there and go shooting. Deer hunting is usually done early morning just around dawn and late in the evening towards dark. If the estimates of when CC and RH met their demise are accurate, then no one would have batted an eye lid at a couple of gunshots around dark.
 
Sher Lock said:
One of the media outlets (Daily Telegraph quoted below) is reporting that RH was stabbed to death by GL after CC was shot.
And that RH had grabbed a gun from GL's vehicle.

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I notice in the DT article that the police have not recovered the drone, Russell's car keys, Russell's phone, and Carol's phone.

It says that they allege he repainted his vehicle and sold the trailer to conceal his involvement. I wonder if they have recovered the trailer now?
 
JudgeJudi said:
I literally spent hours this afternoon trying to find the answer but got precisely nowhere.

GL's barrister suggested in November a self-defence argument might be on the cards. Not being a lawyer, I can only say that might be possible for one person, but as you say, what about the second victim. The only thing I can come up with is if one bullet killed both, i.e. first hit RH, fragmented and hit CC in the head?
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it's the only way I can see it going?

I can certainly see how you could make this kind of legal argument in the US, where some states are approaching wild west style jurisprudence e.g take a gun to a protest where other people also have guns, then everyone gets scared and shoots in self defence.

But IIRC you can't argue this in countries like Aus that tightly restrict deadly force in self defence anyway

IMO it would be hard for the defence to argue that somehow he is talking to the victims while happening to have a loaded gun with him, then they attack him and somehow both victims unfortunately get shot accidentally and stabbed in self defence. Like even if it is legally possible, evidentially it seems laughable?
 
Sher Lock said:
He said crime scene investigators believe Mr Hill then allegedly grabbed a shotgun from Mr Lynn’s vehicle, before a physical fight broke out between the two men and the gun discharged.

It’s alleged Ms Clay, who was standing near Mr Hill’s car, was fatally struck in the head, with an ensuing fight between the two men, ending when Mr Lynn fatally stabbed Mr Hill."
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I don't understand. If Russell grabbed a shotgun from GL's vehicle, then surely that is where the struggle happened, right next to GL's vehicle. So it must have been Russell who went to GL's campsite to confront him. And if Carol, standing near Russell's vehicle, was shot "accidentally" during the struggle over the gun, then the 2 vehicles must have been parked pretty close together. I daresay neither Russell nor GL was going to back off, and go park somewhere else.
 
Kemug said:
I don't understand. If Russell grabbed a shotgun from GL's vehicle, then surely that is where the struggle happened, right next to GL's vehicle. So it must have been Russell who went to GL's campsite to confront him. And if Carol, standing near Russell's vehicle, was shot "accidentally" during the struggle over the gun, then the 2 vehicles must have been parked pretty close together. I daresay neither Russell nor GL was going to back off, and go park somewhere else.
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Going by this, could it be possible they were killed at GLs campsite and GL then drove Russell’s car back to his before lighting everything on fire?

Which could explain why evidence of bone fragments and lead wasn’t found until March 2022?
 
BBM
imstilla.grandma said:
>snipped
..lawyer Dermot Dann KC said the allegations against his client are “heavily in dispute”..
He said crime scene investigators believe Mr Hill then allegedly grabbed a shotgun from Mr Lynn’s vehicle, before a physical fight broke out between the two men and the gun discharged.
It’s alleged Ms Clay, who was standing near Mr Hill’s car, was fatally struck in the head, with an ensuing fight between the two men, ending when Mr Lynn fatally stabbed Mr Hill.
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Sher Lock said:
One of the media outlets (Daily Telegraph quoted below) is reporting that RH was stabbed to death by GL after CC was shot.
And that RH had grabbed a gun from GL's vehicle.

Per Daily Telegraph article:
"In a separate statement provided to the court by forensic expert Mark Gellatly, he claims police informed him they believed Mr Lynn was annoyed by Mr Hill’s drone and confronted the pair about it before returning to his campsite.

He said crime scene investigators believe Mr Hill then allegedly grabbed a shotgun from Mr Lynn’s vehicle, before a physical fight broke out between the two men and the gun discharged.

It’s alleged Ms Clay, who was standing near Mr Hill’s car, was fatally struck in the head, with an ensuing fight between the two men, ending when Mr Lynn fatally stabbed Mr Hill."

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Oh I get it, it all makes sense when you realize that Mr Hill was Superman.
Faster than a speeding bullet he got inside the younger pilot’s vehicle after he used his x-ray vision to see there was a gun stored there. But Mr Lynn had a secret weapon, a kryptonite knife.

Sorry for bringing humor into such a tragic and brutal murder but that argument is ridiculous
 
bearbear said:
so had lynn gone to the campsite with the intention of hunting? and bringing the dead animal home on a trailer?
otherwise why take a trailer and gun camping? and why did rh go there alone just days earlier?
i wonder if he ran into lynn on that trip and they argued then about the site?
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Im guessing the trailer was taken to use to transport fire wood. Instead of putting it inside the vehicle. It would have been getting cold in March. We regularly take our own firewood camping, or pick it up along the way. Often wood from around the area can be hard to come by, because other campers use it and often it’s damp and hard to light.
 
My thoughts on what may have occurred. Drone buzzing/hovering over GL began getting GL very mad. GL shoots down drone almost directly above himself. RH & CC then make a move towards GL and GL greets them both with a shotgun and threatens any further approach and they will be shot in Self defence. RH shields CC from GL and approaches GL not realising CC is directly behind him still and GL as threatened earlier shoots and hits CC and then a wrestle for the gun develops between RH & GL. GL pulls knife and stabs RH to death. Drone is collected by GL almost immediatly and disposed of later. Supposed covert recording of GL talking to himself should be treated with caution as GL would be smart to enough to know he would be under surveillance and probably being recorded. On this basis the "self talk" might be deliberately worded to assist him in what he knew would be the likely future for himself.

My other scenerio is simple. Ambush and Cold blooded murder using gun & knife. Then the disposal of bodies, drone etc and the rest follows. GL has created the scenario of accidental shooting etc because he knows he is screwed and this is the only way he would not be behind bars for the rest of his life. If everything was an accident or self defence you do not start repainting vehicles and burning sites and bodies etc. You go go straight to the cops and explain what happened.

My tip is we have a SK on our hands.
 
imstilla.grandma said:
In a summary of the case against Lynn provided to the Melbourne Magistrates’ Court on Tuesday, police allege Hill and Miss Clay had rekindled a relationship about 15 years earlier and would go on regular camping trips to “spend time together”.

The pair were childhood sweethearts who had drifted apart and had children with other partners, documents tendered to the court said.

Hill had been married to another woman for 51 years at the time of his death, and police facts tendered to the court revealed Hill’s wife believed he had gone camping alone.

“Those close to them believe that they kept their relationship a secret to spare Hill’s family from distress,” the police statement of facts read.
www.nzherald.co.nz

15-year affair between missing Aussie campers revealed as accused killer faces court

Two campers allegedly murdered in Victoria’s high country were 'childhood sweethearts'.
www.nzherald.co.nz www.nzherald.co.nz

eta:
Mr Lynn, 56, was arrested in November 2021, more than 20 months after Mr Hill, 74, and Ms Clay, 73, vanished from their remote campsite in the Wonnangatta Valley.

In a summary of the police case provided to the Melbourne Magistrates’ Court on Tuesday, police outlined their allegations against the former Jetstar pilot.

Mr Lynn has denied murdering the pair, and lawyer Dermot Dann KC said the allegations against his client are “heavily in dispute”.

Mr Hill and Ms Clay, childhood sweethearts who had rekindled their relationship 15 years prior, had allegedly travelled to the remote “Bucks Camp” on March 19, 2020, to spend some quality time together.

Police allege the trip would end in tragedy, with Ms Clay shot in the head and Mr Hill fatally stabbed, after a fight over a drone.

When the pair arrived, police believe it is “likely” they engaged in some way with Mr Lynn, who had allegedly set up camp there the day before.

About 6pm on March 19, Mr Hill made contact via high-frequency radio with an amateur radio group, who reported him sounding “normal”, a police summary of facts reads.

It’s alleged in the document that sometime after this conversation a confrontation between Mr Lynn and Mr Hill broke out and they were killed.

In a separate statement provided to the court by forensic expert Mark Gellatly, he claims police informed him they believed Mr Lynn was annoyed by Mr Hill’s drone and confronted the pair about it before returning to his campsite.

He said crime scene investigators believe Mr Hill then allegedly grabbed a shotgun from Mr Lynn’s vehicle, before a physical fight broke out between the two men and the gun discharged.

It’s alleged Ms Clay, who was standing near Mr Hill’s car, was fatally struck in the head, with an ensuing fight between the two men, ending when Mr Lynn fatally stabbed Mr Hill.
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Hi everyone, still catching up..

Pondering..
-I find it hard to believe that he used two different weapons without intent
-Surely someone would've heard the scuffle AND RH's reaction to an 'accidental wounding' of CC
 
This business of Lynn reportedly using a shotgun has me wondering if that is a correct description. Shotguns don't use bullets they use cartridges filled with pellets which, at close quarters, do enormous damage to flesh and bone.

Police talk about recovering DNA from a bullet. I'm thinking he likely used a rifle.
 
Maybe GL confiscated the drone from Russell, if it was flying close to GLs camp and it crashed. He could have caught it, picked it up and kept it. While it was still recording on the drone, so Russell could see what had happened via his mobile phone (the drone RH had is viewed and operated via a mobile phone). So then RH annoyed his drone has been confiscated, he drives over to GLs camp site and GL won’t give it back or pretends he doesn’t have it. So RH opens GLs car door to retaliate and attempts to pinch something of GLs. And there is a gun. You stole my toy, I’ll confiscate your toy! See how you like it! So in response GL chases after him and that’s when the battle erupted and a struggle for the gun occurs.

Or maybe it happened at RH and CC campsite after RH walked away with GLs gun. GL realising the severity of someone taking your firearm and the harm it could bring, he immediately chases after it and a struggle erupts between them to get it back and it discharges killing CC. RH realising CC was dead, heartbroken and distraught RH could then have been trying to work out how to re-use it to harm GL. RH could have pointed it at GL or been in the process of reloading the next bullet (already in the gun and ready to go - depending on what type of gun) and as a response GL uses his hunting knife in self defence. This would also explain why the gun wasn’t used twice and a knife was the second weapon.

GL freaks out and instead of doing the right thing and going straight to the police with the truth he attempts to cover his tracks and pretends nothing happened. Him talking to himself is a possible sign he’s not in a great way mentally either. Traumatic for him, no matter how much of a narcissist or sociopath he might or might not be. Especially if it was all an accident and happened in a split second. What a horrible nightmare.

If this is what happened, what a tragedy for all families involved.
 
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I'm trying to get my head around 2 people in a tussle, four hands on a shot gun, that gets discharged accidentally, and kills someone standing nearby... accidentally. Its really stretching plausibility, for me.
 
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they'll get you said:
I’m NEVER EVER going camping.
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Me either. GL also dumped Russell and Carol's remains in a spot where my immediate family regularly go camping every year, where our friends happened to be camping that very week. They heard a vehicle come by their isolated camping spot and stop for a bit in the dark one night. They remember feeling very spooked and turning off all the lights in their vehicle. It left after a few minutes.
 
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imstilla.grandma said:
In a summary of the case against Lynn provided to the Melbourne Magistrates’ Court on Tuesday, police allege Hill and Miss Clay had rekindled a relationship about 15 years earlier and would go on regular camping trips to “spend time together”.

The pair were childhood sweethearts who had drifted apart and had children with other partners, documents tendered to the court said.

Hill had been married to another woman for 51 years at the time of his death, and police facts tendered to the court revealed Hill’s wife believed he had gone camping alone.

“Those close to them believe that they kept their relationship a secret to spare Hill’s family from distress,” the police statement of facts read.
www.nzherald.co.nz

15-year affair between missing Aussie campers revealed as accused killer faces court

Two campers allegedly murdered in Victoria’s high country were 'childhood sweethearts'.
www.nzherald.co.nz www.nzherald.co.nz

eta:
Mr Lynn, 56, was arrested in November 2021, more than 20 months after Mr Hill, 74, and Ms Clay, 73, vanished from their remote campsite in the Wonnangatta Valley.

In a summary of the police case provided to the Melbourne Magistrates’ Court on Tuesday, police outlined their allegations against the former Jetstar pilot.

Mr Lynn has denied murdering the pair, and lawyer Dermot Dann KC said the allegations against his client are “heavily in dispute”.

Mr Hill and Ms Clay, childhood sweethearts who had rekindled their relationship 15 years prior, had allegedly travelled to the remote “Bucks Camp” on March 19, 2020, to spend some quality time together.

Police allege the trip would end in tragedy, with Ms Clay shot in the head and Mr Hill fatally stabbed, after a fight over a drone.

When the pair arrived, police believe it is “likely” they engaged in some way with Mr Lynn, who had allegedly set up camp there the day before.

About 6pm on March 19, Mr Hill made contact via high-frequency radio with an amateur radio group, who reported him sounding “normal”, a police summary of facts reads.

It’s alleged in the document that sometime after this conversation a confrontation between Mr Lynn and Mr Hill broke out and they were killed.

In a separate statement provided to the court by forensic expert Mark Gellatly, he claims police informed him they believed Mr Lynn was annoyed by Mr Hill’s drone and confronted the pair about it before returning to his campsite.

He said crime scene investigators believe Mr Hill then allegedly grabbed a shotgun from Mr Lynn’s vehicle, before a physical fight broke out between the two men and the gun discharged.

It’s alleged Ms Clay, who was standing near Mr Hill’s car, was fatally struck in the head, with an ensuing fight between the two men, ending when Mr Lynn fatally stabbed Mr Hill.
Click to expand...
I do not believe for one minute that Mr. Hill took a gun out of Mr. Lynn's vehicle. Mr. Lynn went to their campsite, R and C we're killed, and this is all on him. Imo.
 
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