Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 Mar 2020 #6 *charges*

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@BrumbyJack That large burnt log where the remains were found looks like it had been in a bushfire to me. As you know, they frequently fall over after a fire and I saw one that was almost identical on the ground when driving down the mountains yesterday. I think he may have dragged it there. That whole scene looks very staged to me. What do you think?

To me - the photos of the root-ball area look like "before" photos (before the police dug it up)

You can see some small plants growing, as well as a layer of natural leaf/bark litter. I highly doubt that the police would take such care to put it all back like that

I also agree that the burnt logs are suspicious looking (and any trained police/SES volunteers would have noticed that this wasn't natural). I suspect that GL placed them there to deter animals (rabbits, foxes etc) from digging up the area
 
Yeah I agree Judi, looks to me like they’ve been put there to deter anything trying to dig them up. Defitnitely not happened naturally.

@BrumbyJack That large burnt log where the remains were found looks like it had been in a bushfire to me. As you know, they frequently fall over after a fire and I saw one that was almost identical on the ground when driving down the mountains yesterday. I think he may have dragged it there. That whole scene looks very staged to me. What do you think?
 
From another forum

It is alleged Lynn not just threatened to kill his first wife's pet pig, who she was deeply attached to, but he went ahead and did that in front of her.

It is further alleged more recently that the dog of a neighbor was found with its throat cut. There is no evidence to link Lynn to that, but after the alleged pig incident there is reasonable suspicion. Be crazy not to, in light of the fact that he has been charged with two murders.

Lynn is known to have a low threshold for noise and used to camp in the back yard of his former house when his kids were young.

That might give credence to the hostility towards a drone flying over head.

There is still total radio silence about what happened to his SECOND wife/partner from Doha.

There is a big story there that is one of the biggest missing pieces.

Hello Alicia__elizabeth
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and insights. These are very interesting. His low tolerance of noise is really interesting; especially if he hangs around airports!
 
Killing a person's pet in front of them for spite is the definition of a mongrel human in my book, and who I would think quite likely capable of murder in certain circumstances.
Yes. It is a commonly used method of intimidation in domestic violence.

I've uploaded an informative diagram on the methods of control domestic violence perpetrators use.

The part about harming pets is under the 'INTIMIDATION' heading.

I'm hoping WS mods allow it as it is good to know the signs so that we may possibly help someone and as the GL RH CC case is beginning to show, perhaps even murder could be prevented.
 

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Its actually amazing the LE did not find the burial site, considering how close it was to their original camping site. I am sure that someone must have walked past it during the search. IMO it was very smart that he hid the remains in the root-ball (as it is already disturbed ground). We are either dealing with a SK here who has done this before, or someone of extremely high intelligence

Also, I do agree with others that he has returned to "grind up" the bones and burn clothes etc (unless they were already burnt at the original campsite). The fact that they are talking about bone fragments, and not remains, is telling.

PS this is my first post. Hi everyone. Long time lurker here :)
Welcome computer_lizard! The fact that the remains were not sooner discovered is hardly surprising. The country there is incredibly rugged. But the conjecture that he may have returned ot the burian site is really interesting. I suspect his digital footprint will provide clues to that. But you have raised the most interesting question. Police said they recovered bone fragments, a ring and dentures. No cloth fragments or other clothing, such as footwear. No spectacles.
 
The accused (GL) appears, from news reports, to fit with some of the criteria listed in the first category in this study. Whether he is guilty or not and if the killings were deliberate or not, he managed himself in an organised manner to avoid being caught.
Crime Scene and Profile Characteristics of Organized and Disorganized Murders | Office of Justice Programs
Addit: (MOO)
We have been gaming this out (me, a couple of friends and my young friend who is studying Criminology). Our consensus on this is that whatever led the person to kill Mr Hill and Ms Clay (their motive), once done, the person then settled on a course of action and carried it out in a more or less methodical manner. However, and this is the bit we spent most time on, why do what he did? Why not wait? The thinking was that most people likely leave the valley on a Sunday evening or Monday morning. Leaving on the Saturday, especially in the dead of night, is unusual and likely to get yourself noticed. Moreover, he had a covered trailer and sleeping bags, so there was no difficulty concealing the bodies in the trailer. If there was blood in the tent, then simply pack it up and put it into the trailer, so all that is left is the 4WD. He had the keys. So, he could have driven it up one of the roads exiting the valley and rolled it down into a gully. [The risk here is he leaves DNA in the vehicle; but he may have done that in any case. So, its safer to leave the vehicle, where it is and allow police to think Mr Hill and Ms Clay had wandered into the bush.]
Setting the fire to the tent only drew suspicion. Although Mr Hill missed the arranged 21 and 22 call, the concern was not raised until Monday, the 23rd of March. But with a deserted campsite, and absolutely nothing there, it simply looked as if they had gone somewhere....
So, our conclusion was that after the killing, the person who did it did not think it through very clearly; this suggests that they are quite good at selecting an effective way to a goal, but not the goal that best advances their interest (in this case, avoiding detection).
 
We have been gaming this out (me, a couple of friends and my young friend who is studying Criminology). Our consensus on this is that whatever led the person to kill Mr Hill and Ms Clay (their motive), once done, the person then settled on a course of action and carried it out in a more or less methodical manner. However, and this is the bit we spent most time on, why do what he did? Why not wait? The thinking was that most people likely leave the valley on a Sunday evening or Monday morning. Leaving on the Saturday, especially in the dead of night, is unusual and likely to get yourself noticed. Moreover, he had a covered trailer and sleeping bags, so there was no difficulty concealing the bodies in the trailer. If there was blood in the tent, then simply pack it up and put it into the trailer, so all that is left is the 4WD. He had the keys. So, he could have driven it up one of the roads exiting the valley and rolled it down into a gully. [The risk here is he leaves DNA in the vehicle; but he may have done that in any case. So, its safer to leave the vehicle, where it is and allow police to think Mr Hill and Ms Clay had wandered into the bush.]
Setting the fire to the tent only drew suspicion. Although Mr Hill missed the arranged 21 and 22 call, the concern was not raised until Monday, the 23rd of March. But with a deserted campsite, and absolutely nothing there, it simply looked as if they had gone somewhere....
So, our conclusion was that after the killing, the person who did it did not think it through very clearly; this suggests that they are quite good at selecting an effective way to a goal, but not the goal that best advances their interest (in this case, avoiding detection).
IMO, the impulse to get the h*** out while it's still dark and everyone asleep would be overwhelming. To cooly hang around so people could see and remember you next day, to risk something happening so the bodies are discovered in your possession, or in your trailer which had probably been photographed on your way into the valley: I just don't see even the most cool-headed person being capable of taking those risks.

I do agree it was the fire that made it so suspicious to me. What prompted setting the fire? IMO there must have been a compelling reason, because it risked drawing people's attention: which it did at 2 pm the next day. I could speculate but I'm sure we will find out what LE think, at the trial.

Perhaps his biggest mistake was not realizing that the pristine port-a-potty would pin the time of their disappearance to early that evening. (Kind of a joke, but possibly true). Therefore, they could not have wandered off, in search of a downed drone.
 
Actually been having a think about what I said and I’m changing my opinion of John Silvesters piece. Now that I’ve thought about it some more, I just reckon it’s not so much that he doesn’t know the area, it’s more that I think it’s actually just a really sloppy bit of journalism.

There’s been more than enough info put out about the exact location of camps - where Russell, Carol and the proposed killer were camped, where the witnesses were camped that heard the 4by turning around, and there’s that many maps out there with that info on, plus the gate location etc - so to get it wrong is pretty lazy. Really brings the written part of the article into question too.
Thanks, Brumby Jack

The Silvester piece is another thing we've been discussing. We contrasted it with this piece from the ABC: "Without a trace".
1. they both use information in the public domain that is accepted as true and often verified by police.
2. The ABC piece then, with information not in the public domain, uses various phrases attributing that information to sources [bolding is mine]: "Friends say since Russell..."; "It’s a prospect Inspector Stamper sees..."; "Then on March 11, Russell told friends"; "Russell’s friend of almost 30 years, Robbie Ashlin, says..."
3. the ABC piece avoids unattributed speculation
4. the Silvester piece uses unconfirmed speculation and unattributed assertion: "Lynn was an expert at stalking game in the bush..". Really? Source? Mr Lynn is certainly a keen camper and outdoorsman and also engages in hunting. But, to attribute "expert at stalking..." to him, without a source, is not justified. Similarly, "But as he busied himself around his bush camp at dinner time on Monday, November 22..." Again, police have not made public what he was doing when apprehended. In any case, Mr Lynn was arrested at about 17:30. Whether that is "dinner time" is a matter of opinion; "A practical man, Lynn knew police would have to look at him...". Firstly, one does not need ot be a practical person to "know" this; but, in any case, how does Silvester know what was going on inside Mr Lynn's head? The entire paragraph is, what my teacher used to call, "mixamatensis". The first sentence is future tense: "would have to"; the others, as past tense, what has happened. The past cannot be used to justify the future. "Driven to Sale, showered and fed, he was taken to the interview room to be asked questions under a caution that anything he said could be used in evidence." This is an assertion of fact that does not have a source. Likewise these sentences contain assertions, but no attribution: "Lynn didn’t know the detectives sitting opposite him, but they knew him. In such long-term investigations detectives usually build a psychological profile of the suspect" and "One was a “bushie” with a love of four-wheel-driving and camping in remote areas, just like Lynn". Mr Silvester could have said, "I have been told that..." Or "A member of the investigatory team, who was not authorised to speak, said that...."
Another warning bell is this, "If he had given a no-comment interview, he would probably have been released or charged earlier". Mr Silvester does not know what type of interview Mr Lynn gave.
When a journalist refers to the sources of their information, they are asking us to trust that they have faithfully represented the information they have been given and also the assertions are checkable - and they are prepared stand by hat they have written and subject their work to scrutiny. That is not the case when there is an absence of attribution. Given that the article purports to present fact, the absence of attribution reduces the degree to which we can rely upon the assertions made.
 
IMO, the impulse to get the h*** out while it's still dark and everyone asleep would be overwhelming. To cooly hang around so people could see and remember you next day, to risk something happening so the bodies are discovered in your possession, or in your trailer which had probably been photographed on your way into the valley: I just don't see even the most cool-headed person being capable of taking those risks.
...
Perhaps his biggest mistake was not realizing that the pristine port-a-potty would pin the time of their disappearance to early that evening. (Kind of a joke, but possibly true). Therefore, they could not have wandered off, in search of a downed drone.
Hi Satchie
Yes, great point: the unused "portaloo" was a giveaway about timing, IMHO [even though there was a public convenience a few metres away...but one always prefers one's own]
But as for killers being cool under and concealing bodies where they live or in close proximity, think of Gacy, who buried bodies under his house; Reginald Christie, buried bodies in his garden and his wife's body was found beneath the floorboards of the front room of his house. And Fred and Rosemary West, who buried nine victims in their house.
A conjecture is that the killer of Mr Hill and Ms Clay has not committed a murder like this, in this type of situation, with potential witnesses and in a confined place (three entry / exit rotes, one of which was blocked). A further conjecture we had is that he knew he had to be rid of evidence and set about doing that, before he thought it through. As for the risk of the bodies being discovered in your possession, I'd say that was very low. The accused is a pilot, and he as been described as "coolheaded".
 
How police cracked missing campers case

No Cookies | Herald Sun

Families will plan funerals for the pair in coming weeks after DNA testing is completed and the coroner releases the remains.

The Union Spur Track north of Dargo was reopened on Thursday as police finished processing the crime scene.

It is a place they hope to bring the campers’ loved ones to in the near future.

The investigation remains ongoing.

Behind a paywall. Articles behind paywalls sometimes may be made free access later.

Whenever I post that an article is behind a paywall, I always test it before I post by logging out of my subscription and seeing what access there is.
So that is saying that it is CC and RH, isn't it? before the DNA testing is completed?
 
I wonder if the alledged killer heard/saw Russell talking on his ham radio and wondered if he was talking to someone camped elsewhere that was still on their way down to the gatta? Might’ve been worried if they stuck it out that Russell might’ve had a mate who could turn up the next day?

We have been gaming this out (me, a couple of friends and my young friend who is studying Criminology). Our consensus on this is that whatever led the person to kill Mr Hill and Ms Clay (their motive), once done, the person then settled on a course of action and carried it out in a more or less methodical manner. However, and this is the bit we spent most time on, why do what he did? Why not wait? The thinking was that most people likely leave the valley on a Sunday evening or Monday morning. Leaving on the Saturday, especially in the dead of night, is unusual and likely to get yourself noticed. Moreover, he had a covered trailer and sleeping bags, so there was no difficulty concealing the bodies in the trailer. If there was blood in the tent, then simply pack it up and put it into the trailer, so all that is left is the 4WD. He had the keys. So, he could have driven it up one of the roads exiting the valley and rolled it down into a gully. [The risk here is he leaves DNA in the vehicle; but he may have done that in any case. So, its safer to leave the vehicle, where it is and allow police to think Mr Hill and Ms Clay had wandered into the bush.]
Setting the fire to the tent only drew suspicion. Although Mr Hill missed the arranged 21 and 22 call, the concern was not raised until Monday, the 23rd of March. But with a deserted campsite, and absolutely nothing there, it simply looked as if they had gone somewhere....
So, our conclusion was that after the killing, the person who did it did not think it through very clearly; this suggests that they are quite good at selecting an effective way to a goal, but not the goal that best advances their interest (in this case, avoiding detection).
 
From another forum

It is alleged Lynn not just threatened to kill his first wife's pet pig, who she was deeply attached to, but he went ahead and did that in front of her.

It is further alleged more recently that the dog of a neighbor was found with its throat cut. There is no evidence to link Lynn to that, but after the alleged pig incident there is reasonable suspicion. Be crazy not to, in light of the fact that he has been charged with two murders.

Lynn is known to have a low threshold for noise and used to camp in the back yard of his former house when his kids were young.

That might give credence to the hostility towards a drone flying over head.

There is still total radio silence about what happened to his SECOND wife/partner from Doha.

There is a big story there that is one of the biggest missing pieces.
Not doubting the veracity of these allegations, but I'm stumped as to how a guy with a low noise threshold i.e. dogs barking, drones etc can then go and sit in a cockpit for hours at a time, for 20 years or so, with all the noise going on in the cabin. There are certain frequencies which things like engines, radar, radio, other bits of tech etc, emit in the cockpit which can't be masked by the headset, as you usually have to have one ear open for ambient noise or conversation etc. Pilots who use the same ear for hearing the cabin often lose some of the hearing in that ear at those frequencies. If you swap the listening ear around it just takes longer lol.
 
From another forum

It is alleged Lynn not just threatened to kill his first wife's pet pig, who she was deeply attached to, but he went ahead and did that in front of her.

It is further alleged more recently that the dog of a neighbor was found with its throat cut. There is no evidence to link Lynn to that, but after the alleged pig incident there is reasonable suspicion. Be crazy not to, in light of the fact that he has been charged with two murders.

Lynn is known to have a low threshold for noise and used to camp in the back yard of his former house when his kids were young.
And would be incredibly annoyed by a barking dog.
 
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