Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020

[JLZ]

JLZ--ok, I think your idea is a good one--RH took CC to the Bluff Track /King Billy Track area--where he had been twice in the week March 11-13 to fly the drone before heading to the W. Station to make his last known call on March 20th. So what do you think happened there?

My reading was that the second trip was the one on which they disappeared, so that would be one trip the previous week.

I don't know . . . I think the general area has an intrinsic appeal, I don't have to imagine a specific motive like irregular farming to explain revisits. As for the intersection, I can see the attraction for a Button Man character, there are the two tracks I mentioned joining Mt Clear Track and Brocks Road, plus the Australian Alps Walking Track parting from King Billy Track within a hundred metres, and it's high ground, about 1600m (compared to the Wonnangatta Valley at about 600m), with several higher peaks very near. But for practising droning? not so much. It's steepish and looks moderately wooded (going by Google satellite). So, was there a reason Russell picked that area, and did it have to do with Button Man or perhaps another person who'd made a regular base there? And if he was prying into someone's territory, could that be sufficient reason not just for an immediate confrontation, but to follow him away from the camp and kill two people? I'll leave the question open, but at the moment it feels like a stretch; and I note that Button Man is said to have no criminal record. Apparently not someone who seeks lawbreaking thrills.

In those missing hours, did they perhaps meet up with someone previously known to either, perhaps reinflaming a longstanding grudge?

 

[JLZ]

it seems odd rh wasnt wearing his hat if the scenario is they were out that day with the drone,
it was still locked in the car,
and also why is the "secret affair" constantly mentioned if it supposedly has no bearing on the case?
and was wilderness camping the only way they ever got to spend time alone together,
with cc only saying she would be away a few days?

Possibly he had two hats, and that was his driving one?

 

[trujac]

well, it sounds possible that a handful of people are "regular visitors" to the area--like RH and CC...traveling through the valley frequently...which could tap into your idea: "did they perhaps meet up with someone previously known to either, perhaps reinflaming a longstanding grudge?"

 

[trujac]

Possibly he had two hats, and that was his driving one?

yes...I agree, he could have had more than one hat; I always have two hats in my truck--A Tilley Hat for hiking around...and ball cap for simple wind/sun protection.

 

[JLZ]

well, it sounds possible that a handful of people are "regular visitors" to the area--like RH and CC...traveling through the valley frequently...which could tap into your idea: "did they perhaps meet up with someone previously known to either, perhaps reinflaming a longstanding grudge?"

Or they could have visited a family member or ex family member along the way, had a violent argument, whereupon that person followed them into the wilderness and ultimately used the radio transmission to pinpoint their location. Not saying I think so, it's just an example of how I think the time gap widens the possibilities.

 

[trujac]

Or they could have visited a family member or ex family member along the way, had a violent argument, whereupon that person followed them into the wilderness and ultimately used the radio transmission to pinpoint their location. Not saying I think so, it's just an example of how I think the time gap widens the possibilities.

Yes, the nature of RH and CC's relationship could have made someone very jealous--there has been no mention of CC's ex-spouse or children--does she have any children? She has extended family members--and one article mentioned grandchildren. When you have someone like CC with an extensive network of social and business friends and acquaintances--not to mention friendly neighbors, the potential for interpersonal misunderstandings can be more likely, IMO.

 

[Tinker Taylor]

Maybe the reason was that someone was holding a gun on him.

Well, his friend to whom he was speaking has described the conversation as "Missing high country camper Russell Hill was upbeat and spoke without a worry in the world during his final conversation with an old mate", so I doubt very much he would have done so if someone was holding a gun on him.

 

[Kemug]

The more I read on this case the more confusing it gets.

It appears they left Thursday morning 19 March at 7.30am, so they must have stayed somewhere the night enroute. Then they would have set up camp there and in the morning repacked and moved to where the burnt camp and vehicle was found at Wonnganatta Campground. So presumably, their holiday was to be moving from one camp area to the other, as he was talking to his ham radio friend about going to Dargo. Carol had told friends she wasn't expecting to be home until 28/29 March.

Has LE checked out all the motels, hotels, b&b's and caravan parks between Pakenham and W0nganatta? Carol might certainly have enjoyed a night of comfort before roughing it.

 

[Kemug]

I was going to ask if anyone knows where Carol was on the previous weekend when Russell was camping on his own (or not?) - but I suppose she would have been moving into her new home? If I sound confused, it's because I am

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I'm beginning to think that Russell didn't spend a lot of time at home.

 

[JLZ]

I was going to ask if anyone knows where Carol was on the previous weekend when Russell was camping on his own (or not?) - but I suppose she would have been moving into her new home? If I sound confused, it's because I am

She sounds like a busy woman. I was thinking that the reason she added a few days when she mentioned the length of the trip was that she struggled to get time to herself.

 

[Kemug]

JLZ - Yes, and maybe that is why camping appealed to her, even though at first glance she may seem an unlikely camper. Also it could perhaps be a motive for starting a new life - even though that theory is pretty much written off, it is still a possibility.

 

[JLZ]

JLZ - Yes, and maybe that is why camping appealed to her, even though at first glance she may seem an unlikely camper. Also it could perhaps be a motive for starting a new life - even though that theory is pretty much written off, it is still a possibility.

People can assume we wouldn't like something because it's what we've never really done. But that can also be the reason we find it enticing.

 

[SouthAussie]

He didn’t ham radio it then drive some where. Setting up that deal is a huge pain in the behind. One of the guys here talked about the cables, radio antenna 2000 feet into the air, or whatever height it was, (yes, I know, that was sarcasm) have to hook up all kinds of stuff. Wherever he was, it was not in a good area for reception. It’d be interesting if LE would set up the same ham radio stuff exactly where the original was found burned, and try to chat on it to other operators. They’d be able to tell if transmission was poor or not from the spot where the equipment was found. One clue solved. Does weather interfere? Better be sure weather conditions the same.

Are we sure that Russell had that kind of ham radio setup for travelling? The antenna, cables and such.

I had a friend staying with me earlier this year. He had a little ham radio that looked sort of like a mobile phone. He used it while we travelled all around South Australia, camping and visiting outback sites. No other equipment required. Just this little handheld device.

It looked like these ....

 

[bearbear]

i cant shake the feeling someone they know is responsible for their disappearance, it seems simpler than some ivan milat type of random killer?

 

[JLZ]

i cant shake the feeling someone they know is responsible for their disappearance, it seems simpler than some ivan milat type of random killer?

One thing against it being a Melbourne acquaintance, is that the travelling would take up a large chunk of time. Nobody missed the person? Because isolation?

 

[SouthAussie]

i cant shake the feeling someone they know is responsible for their disappearance, it seems simpler than some ivan milat type of random killer?

It doesn't seem that the police have ruled this out, as far as I can see.

I could certainly think of a motive or two, if that is the case.

I would imagine that the police have been forensically trawling through Carol's finances. Who financed her new home? Who is the mortgage holder? Is there a mortgage holder, or was the home bought outright? Things like that.

 

[Black-Cat]

i cant shake the feeling someone they know is responsible for their disappearance, it seems simpler than some ivan milat type of random killer?

Yes I agree I think it someone they knew and there is a motive .... usually money IMO

 

[Black-Cat]

I think the police are probably watching persons of interest waiting for them to slip up IMO

 

[Tinker Taylor]

Yes I agree I think it someone they knew and there is a motive .... usually money IMO

It's a long and complex process for beneficiaries to access the assets of someone who has gone missing when there is no proof that they have died. Presumption of death isn't enough and usually you would need to wait at least 7 years before being able to apply, unless for example, the person died in a plane crash and you could prove they were on board, but their remains were unable to be identified. So I don't think that would be a motive.