Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020

[SouthAussie]

It's a long and complex process for beneficiaries to access the assets of someone who has gone missing when there is no proof that they have died. Presumption of death isn't enough and usually you would need to wait at least 7 years before being able to apply, unless for example, the person died in a plane crash and you could prove they were on board, but their remains were unable to be identified. So I don't think that would be a motive.

And what if someone discovered that Russell had invested in Carol's new property? That a huge chunk of money was gone, due to that?

Or what if Russell's marriage was going to dissolve and the marital nest egg was going to be divided?

I know someone whose marriage of 43 years recently dissolved as the wife (70 years old) wanted a chance at happiness with someone else - someone they both know.
The marital finances are quickly changing. The marital home is likely going to be sold (neither can afford to buy the other one out). The adult children's inheritance is likely to be severely reduced, with someone else firmly in the picture.
There are all kinds of financial ramifications.

 

[Kemug]

it seems odd rh wasnt wearing his hat if the scenario is they were out that day with the drone,
it was still locked in the car,
and also why is the "secret affair" constantly mentioned if it supposedly has no bearing on the case?
and was wilderness camping the only way they ever got to spend time alone together,
with cc only saying she would be away a few days?

Leaving his hat in the vehicle is another reason why I think that whatever happened, happened either during the night or early morning.

Carol told her friends she would be back around 28/29 March, so that is more like 10 days.

bearbear - well actually, the "secret affair" may or may not have any bearing 0n the case, the truth of that may or may not be found out eventually. But at this time, our thoughts, decisions and judgements don't make a scrap of difference to what really happened, do they?

 

[Kemug]

Yes I agree I think it someone they knew and there is a motive .... usually money IMO

Black-Cat - I agree with you to a certain extent - but I'm not sure about money being the motive. The torching of the tent to me indicates a more personal attack, even anger.

 

[SouthAussie]

Black-Cat - I agree with you to a certain extent - but I'm not sure about money being the motive. The torching of the tent to me indicates a more personal attack, even anger.

I am not sure that the two are mutually exclusive. There can be personal anger about money.

 

[trujac]

Are we sure that Russell had that kind of ham radio setup for travelling? The antenna, cables and such.

I had a friend staying with me earlier this year. He had a little ham radio that looked sort of like a mobile phone. He used it while we travelled all around South Australia, camping and visiting outback sites. No other equipment required. Just this little handheld device.
It looked like these ....
View attachment 252912

The handheld radios have a 1 to 2 mile distance range--he wouldn't have been able to contact his family/friends.

 

[SouthAussie]

The handheld radios have a 1 to 2 mile distance range--he wouldn't have been able to contact his family/friends.

There are things called repeater stations dotted all over the place. The handheld ham radio connects to the repeater station and can transmit much further. Some have been known to transmit up to 275km.

When we were out camping and travelling the outback, my friend spoke with people quite a distance away. Certainly much further than you have indicated. Although the conversation got very crackly at times. His handheld ham radio was a very new model.

Do we know exactly where Russell and Carol were when Russell made radio contact?

Amateur Radio Repeaters » Electronics Notes

 

[TootsieFootsie]

The few years before mobile phones came into general use, handheld ones I mean not car ones, we used to use handheld walkie talkies, just around town and between my friends house and mine.
I hated having to pay for calls after mobiles came in after it being free for so long with the handheld walkie talkies. But at least it was more private.

 

[trujac]

There are things called repeater stations dotted all over the place. The handheld ham radio connects to the repeater station and can transmit much further. Some have been known to transmit up to 275km.

When we were out camping and travelling the outback, my friend spoke with people quite a distance away. Certainly much further than you have indicated. Although the conversation got very crackly at times. His handheld ham radio was a very new model.

Do we know exactly where Russell and Carol were when Russell made radio contact?

Amateur Radio Repeaters » Electronics Notes

I was given a handheld radio by our ham radio club so I could carry it around keeping in touch with other members of the club who lived in close proximity to me...when contacting other stations at a distance outside of our repeaters, I had to use my home radio that was rigged up to a yagi antenna on my house roof. I think the range distance that RH needed would preclude him using a handheld.

 

[neesaki]

Heres a link to The Daily Mail's version of this article today
Russell Hill's best mate believes his friend was ATTACKED after speaking to him before he vanished | Daily Mail Online

This article is a little long summarising the whole case, the headline is classic daily mail style

Missing camper's final conversation revealed: Best mate of married man who vanished with 'beauty queen' reveals chilling details of their last phone call - and how he KNOWS his friend was attacked

Here's some snippets from the new article

"The best friend of missing camper Russell Hill believes his mate was attacked after speaking to him hours before he vanished."

"Rob Ashlin, a friend of Mr Hill's for almost three decades, is the last known person to speak to him via an amateur radio network around 6pm on March 20."

"Mr Ashlin said Mr Hill was an experienced camper who seemed upbeat and positive during their final conversation, The Herald Sun reported.

The friend said it was unlike Mr Hill to leave his camp unattended and believed the suspicious fire was set as a 'decoy' for an attack.

'Russell would never, ever leave his vehicle.

'He's been attacked, I believe there is more than one person involved,' Mr Ashlin explained.

Mr Hill had asked Mr Ashlin for directions to Dargo, about 70km away, and said he planned to drive there soon.

Mr Ashlin became concerned when his friend did not check in on the radio network the following night."

"'The radio network was like a security safety net between all of us whenever we were away camping,' he said.

Mr Hill’s wife Robyn was also concerned by his absence from the radio network and soon reported it to police, prompting a mass search effort."

"Search and rescue officers believe the couple are not in the zone they have already searched and want to talk to people who were in the Wonnangatta area when the pair disappeared. "

Sounds to me as though it’s possible RH may have revealed some kind of information to his friend, Ashlin, that leads him to believe they were attacked. Thus the police suspecting it is foul play.

 

[neesaki]

Maybe at the last moment he tried to raise the alarm when he sensed danger.

Good point, so maybe his friend would have known something was very wrong at that point.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

I hope it’s not random for selfish reasons: to feel safer when outside enjoying the world.

Any statistics are skewed. Bc they include a disproportionate number of solved murders bc they were known to the perp. How about solved but statistically unsolved bc not enough evidence to convict? Or not solved period. Never mind all the known victims, Doe victims found and not found.

But I have to ask, what birds would circle around dead humans out there? Or do land animals get the bodies first? Surely scraps are left for birds to eat? Some kind of hierarchy?
Maybe that’s why LE stated that they’ve been removed from the valley. No birds of prey circling overhead? Surely nature felled some other wild animals during the periods of search.
I’m out of ideas. Anyone else?

 

[trujac]

I hope it’s not random for selfish reasons: to feel safer when outside enjoying the world.

Any statistics are skewed. Bc they include a disproportionate number of solved murders bc they were known to the perp. How about solved but statistically unsolved bc not enough evidence to convict? Or not solved period. Never mind all the known victims, Doe victims found and not found.

But I have to ask, what birds would circle around dead humans out there? Or do land animals get the bodies first? Surely scraps are left for birds to eat? Some kind of hierarchy?
Maybe that’s why LE stated that they’ve been removed from the valley. No birds of prey circling overhead? Surely nature felled some other wild animals during the periods of search.
I’m out of ideas. Anyone else?

Midwestmom...I think you would agree that in this day and age people need to be more cautious when outdoors in remote areas or on isolated highways while driving, walking, running, and bicycling...regarding what type of raptors live in the Wonnangatta Valley--there are ten species that habitat in South Australia.
10 birds of prey to see in South Australia
Seeing prey birds circling over carcasses in the valley seems like a possibility if the bodies were left in a clearing; maybe someone with direct experience with that can comment. Where I live, I see buzzards and crows often circling before eating roadkill and other things they see...but the area here is wide open desert.

 

[SouthAussie]

I was given a handheld radio by our ham radio club so I could carry it around keeping in touch with other members of the club who lived in close proximity to me...when contacting other stations at a distance outside of our repeaters, I had to use my home radio that was rigged up to a yagi antenna on my house roof. I think the range distance that RH needed would preclude him using a handheld.

So, we do know where Russell transmitted from? Exactly where they were when he made that final transmission?

I keep asking this because I have not read that anywhere, and I think we are making assumptions. That Russell dragged his home ham radio stuff along with him, spent time spreading antenna in the trees, had an ongoing power source for the home ham radio .....

Was the ham radio found at the campsite? What was his wife listening on, when she heard that last transmission? Why was this transmission so crackly, when Russell had always used the ham radio every night?

I think this is important because we need to know exactly what is missing, in case it is found, or seen being suddenly used by someone else, or turns up in a pawn shop.
The drone.
One or two mobile phones?
A power source?
The ham radio?

 

[trujac]

So, we do know where Russell transmitted from? Exactly where they were when he made that final transmission?

I keep asking this because I have not read that anywhere, and I think we are making assumptions. That Russell dragged his home ham radio stuff along with him, spent time spreading antenna in the trees, had an ongoing power source for the home ham radio .....

Was the ham radio found at the campsite? What was his wife listening on, when she heard that last transmission?

SouthAussie, RH last radio contact was at the Wonnangatta Valley Station...and there are pictures of him at a campsite using trees to string up his ham radio antenna. Here's an article that provides information about his last radio call.
Police say drone could hold vital clues about disappearance of elderly campers

 

[SouthAussie]

SouthAussie, RH last radio contact was at the Wonnangatta Valley Station...and there are pictures of him at a campsite using trees to string up his ham radio antenna. Here's an article that provides information about his last radio call.
Police say drone could hold vital clues about disappearance of elderly campers

I have looked at this pic a million times, not seeing the antenna, or a power source, or a burned up ham radio unit.
Unless he packed it all up in his vehicle. Or left it at all at Wonnangatta Station and was going to return each day to check in.
Or is it missing?



Can't see it in any of these pics either.
نتيجة بحث Google عن الصور حول https://distincttoday.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/28784878-8353639-image-a-3_1590380213260.jpg

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Midwestmom...I think you would agree that in this day and age people need to be more cautious when outdoors in remote areas or on isolated highways while driving, walking, running, and bicycling...regarding what type of raptors live in the Wonnangatta Valley--there are ten species that habitat in South Australia.
10 birds of prey to see in South Australia
Seeing prey birds circling over carcasses in the valley seems like a possibility if the bodies were left in a clearing; maybe someone with direct experience with that can comment. Where I live, I see buzzards and crows often circling before eating roadkill and other things they see...but the area here is wide open desert.

No question we need to be more cautious. I wouldn’t go anywhere like that without at least one other person. More likely a small group, caravaning across the valley. No walking at dusk in my neighborhood. And I see ladies walking by themselves in the dead of night. 8-9-10 at night. One lady. By herself. My dogs start to bark, and I make sure what it is they’re barking at, by peering through windows from a black room. I live in a fairly upity neighborhood but still... Even men by themselves. Don’t get me started about youngsters by themselves.
No, absolutely agreed. Some wife disappeared while biking in Colorado on a Sunday morning. Poof.
That’s why I questioned early reports from WS on the safety of the valley. No place is completely safe any more. Not even your own house.
But all it takes is one moment of being less than careful or some crazed loose cannon, and the vultures will circle not only road kill, lazy little buggers, waiting for it in an open area but I would suspect they’d circle overhead in the bush, as well. For every open area that is many miles wide, or kilometers in AU, there appears to be that much of, if not more of, forested, canopied, remote bush land. Surely the birds fly there. That’s why I’m thinking that watching their circular flight from a distance might lead to a grizzly discovery. Drones can’t see into the depths of the bush. But the birds? How do they know? But by now, it’s too late to watch their flight for signs of fresh death.
They drove in. Did they walk out? Drive out? Were they carried out?
Or are they still there, somewhere.
I’ve strained my brains trying to understand the area, to be able to suggest possible scenarios. Birds locating their bodies was the last idea that I came to. I believe we’ve discussed all other options.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

So I looked up what a cattle station is, got redirected to an Australian site with a kajillion pictures of cattle stations. What a magnificent country and I didn’t even get to see the cities.

 

[bearbear]

Mobile phone tracking data showed the pair drove through Heyfield, Licola and Licola North to get to the Wonnangatta Valley.

"They then took the Zeka Spur Track, which leads up into the High Country, into Wonnangatta, which is getting close to as remote as you can get in Victoria," Detective Inspector Andrew Stamper said.
Mr Hill's wife and Ms Clay's family thought each of them was camping alone, but police declined to speculate further about the nature of their relationship.

Mr Hill's wife and Ms Clay's family thought each of them was camping alone, but police declined to speculate further about the nature of their relationship.
Police say drone could hold vital clues about disappearance of elderly campers

it seems odd to me that ccs family and friends assumed she went camping alone?

 

[bearbear]

I have looked at this pic a million times, not seeing the antenna, or a power source, or a burned up ham radio unit.
Unless he packed it all up in his vehicle. Or left it at all at Wonnangatta Station and was going to return each day to check in.
Or is it missing?

View attachment 253018

Can't see it in any of these pics either.
نتيجة بحث Google عن الصور حول https://distincttoday.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/28784878-8353639-image-a-3_1590380213260.jpg

thanks for the pics sa, beautiful photo of carol with the dog!
Number 7 Arts Features Grier, Hart And Clay

 

[Tinker Taylor]

thanks for the pics sa, beautiful photo of carol with the dog!
Number 7 Arts Features Grier, Hart And Clay

Different person.