Australia - Russell Hill & Carol Clay Murdered While Camping - Wonnangatta Valley, 2020 #7

[AussieIan]

And I definitely don’t believe that he purposely shot it into the air, that sounds incredibly careless for someone so concerned with gun safety.

JMO

I'm not sold on that part of the story either but if you have an extremely aggressive person approaching you firing warning shots is absolutely something people would do

 

[emirates1957]

I also read in one of the articles that Lynn said Russell must have lifted up the guy rope. There is no way you could lift that guy rope. It is taut in the photo.

Thank goodness the jury will have seen that photo, and can visibly see his lies.

imo

In court Lynn said that Russell may have lifted the guy rope up with the rifle. The trigger pull weight was also explained away by means of 2 x men weighing around 100kg each tussling in front of the bull bar giving a 20kg weight to trigger the rifle……I mean really it was just the perfect storm !!!!!!!!

 

[SouthAussie]

I just tested my grip trainer at 5kg with trigger finger and its extremely easy to pull. I'm sure it makes a difference for competition shooting but I think in the proposed scenario it wouldn't have mattered it it was 1kg or 10kg of pressure. Those fellas would be exerting far far more than 4kg of pressure in every move while fighting over a gun, either of them could have hit that trigger while moving.

The police officer who testified at the trial said differently, as per my previous post. Leading Snr Const Paul Griffiths is a Victoria Police ballistics specialist.

He also took the jury through how to load the magazine with five rounds, c@ck, and fire.

He said the shotgun was set up for a left-handed person, so it was a bit awkward. Perhaps meaning that the palm swell was for a left-handed person, making it more uncomfortable for a right handed person to have his finger on the trigger and accidently fire? Not sure, but I have been reading gun forums that explain the difference.

I am really not seeing two unlucky accidents happening - not where two people ended up dead.

As others have said, maybe one unlucky accident. But two? At least one of those deaths must have been intentional.

imo

 

[timezone]

No idea why Tweet….when we entered the Gallery she had left a seat vacant … the lady arrived later and asked the gentleman on the door to let her in as it was her lawyer.

Possible that the trial has been a complete eye opener for the wife, and as she still has to provide for son , she may have engaged a lawyer in regards to who is footing the high legal bil ?? Remembering that She was told nothing prior to Lynn's capture, watching the ROI would have been excruiating.

 

[SouthAussie]

Possible that the trial has been a complete eye opener for the wife, and as she still has to provide for son , she may have engaged a lawyer in regards to who is footing the high legal bil ?? Remembering that She was told nothing prior to Lynn's capture, watching the ROI would have been excruiating.

The police had also put a restraint on their house being sold. I was wondering if it has something to do with that - though I have no idea what that something could be.


A house owned by a former Jetstar pilot accused of murdering two secret lovers while they were camping has been restrained by police.
Greg Lynn, 56, has been prevented from selling his $1million three-bedroom house at Caroline Springs, 33kms west of Melbourne.
In June, it was revealed Lynn was struggling to fund his legal defence with the restraining order placed on the house a further blow.
What happens to the house he lived at with his wife and children depends on the outcome of his murder trial in February.

Development in case of Jetstar pilot accused of killing secret lovers

Greg Lynn, 56, has been prevented from selling his $1million three-bedroom house at Caroline Springs, 33kms west of Melbourne.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[AussieIan]

The police officer who testified at the trial said differently, as per my previous post. Leading Snr Const Paul Griffiths is a Victoria Police ballistics specialist.

He also took the jury through how to load the magazine with five rounds, c@ck, and fire.

He said the shotgun was set up for a left-handed person, so it was a bit awkward. Perhaps meaning that the palm swell was for a left-handed person, making it more uncomfortable for a right handed person to have his finger on the trigger and accidently fire? Not sure, but I have been reading gun forums that explain the difference.

I am really not seeing two unlucky accidents happening - not where two people ended up dead.

As others have said, maybe one unlucky accident. But two? At least one of those deaths must have been intentional.

imo

Yeah, I read that, and 4kg sounded like a lot to me as a gun layman but try it yourself with a grip squeezer and you'll raise your eyebrows at how easily you move it with a finger. Even 10kg moves without any effort.

The writer of the article says that 'it would be difficult for it to go off by accident' not the officer testifying.

In fact all I can see the the officer reported as saying is that the firearm was in good working order and explaining that the trigger pull being slightly higher than average means '“Being higher means [having] to pull [the] trigger harder to discharge the gun,”

He doesn't say it would be difficult for it to go off by accident. I don't see how it being set up for a left handed person changes anything about a person getting their hand in the trigger guard. Firearm in question which I posted below it's got quite a large guard, you've got 10 fingers on the weapon, any finger going in there and getting knocked by big blokes fighting full strength would 100% generate more than 4kg.



There's dozens of videos showing accidental discharges from people handing weapons gently let alone fighting over them.

Now imagine in any of those videos they'd accidentally shot someones beloved life partner. Not all, but some of the partners would definitely lose the plot and attack them.

Again, I'm not trying to sell this as what happened, but to me it is a possible sequence of events and if I was on the Jury this is what I would be thinking. If prosecution want to convict they need to cover these kinds of bases instead I feel like they are relying on australians general inexperience of guns to think 4kg is a lot.

 

[Tweet57]

Possible that the trial has been a complete eye opener for the wife, and as she still has to provide for son , she may have engaged a lawyer in regards to who is footing the high legal bil ?? Remembering that She was told nothing prior to Lynn's capture, watching the ROI would have been excruiating.

Agree what an eye opener for family. At least they are hearing everything first hand. I just question the timing of her lawyer. There may be appeals etc so plenty of time to sort stuff out

 

[SouthAussie]

Again, I'm not trying to sell this as what happened, but to me it is a possible sequence of events and if I was on the Jury this is what I would be thinking. If prosecution want to convict they need to cover these kinds of bases instead I feel like they are relying on australians general inexperience of guns to think 4kg is a lot.

But is it a reasonable possibility? Or is it a remote possibility that two people were both accidently killed?

Because there needs to be reasonable doubt, as opposed to remote doubt ... some vague possibility.

I guess the jury will decide.

 

[AussieIan]

But is it a reasonable possibility? Or is it a remote possibility that two people were both accidently killed?

Because there needs to be reasonable doubt, as opposed to remote doubt ... some vague possibility.

I guess the jury will decide.

Purely the fight sequence of events? I think so yes.

2 guys get into a fight. A firearm they are grappling over discharges. It hits an innocent bystander. The bystanders partner attacks the shooter. During the struggle they're killed. It's a logical sequence of events.

After Carol was killed RH and GL both had reason to think they had to kill to survive, Hill could reasonably think he will be next, Lynn could fear that he would be killed in retaliation.

What I'm not convinced Lynn is being truthful about is what lead to the fighting turning physical.


If I wanted to put forth the theory I believe most likely, I would say Lynn was very drunk, very annoyed with Russell and went to RH campsite with his shotgun in a drunken attempt to intimidate, or show his 'manhood'/toughness but with no intention of causing harm. Scaring people can make you feel powerful and Im sure Lynn liked feeling powerful. Perhaps he felt like it would 'teach them a lesson' for threatening him when they saw him with his BIG gun.

Talking to someone angry and very intoxicated while you're calm and sober often goes 1 of 2 ways.

Either Russell kept calm and sensible for some time, but at some point has got fed up with repeating himself because talking to someone extremely intoxicated is like talking to a brick wall and having judged Lynn as all bark no bite has told him to F Off back to his campsite, which lead to Lynn feeling like he had to remind Russell he was Billy Badass in this campsite so fired shots in the air, that's alarmed Russell and he's gone to grab the gun.

or 2nd way is Russell engaged passively, never escalated, but Lynn kept working himself up and up until he was enraged, stomping around and screaming, perhaps pacing back and forth, venting all his frustration and how better to vent rage than to shoot in the air, at that point Russell would understandably be very concerned and I could understand him making a grab for the weapon, or Russell has said something about Lynn firing shots in the air and Lynn got in his face to say 'what are you gonna do old man' and Russell was concerned enough to feel the need to try and disarm him.




There are a few reasons I think alcohol was likely a factor:

1 IIRC in one of the airline pilot forums soon after his arrest a couple of members talked about him drinking heavily.

2 He has been accused by previous partners and their family of domestic violence, while he was not convicted, the majority of domestic violence is linked with alcohol abuse by the perpetrator.

3 When he was arrested I remember them stating he had said things which concerned them and Lynn was talking about alcohol or getting drunk at camp.

4 I've spent 5 nights a week for years watching drunk people interact like this and Lynn almost perfectly fits the profile of a type who often behave as I described above.


If anyone can remember that airline forum would be great. It had some kind of weird name. With a 9 in it?

 

[SouthAussie]

Purely the fight sequence of events? I think so yes.

2 guys get into a fight. A firearm they are grappling over discharges. It hits an innocent bystander. The bystanders partner attacks the shooter. During the struggle they're killed. It's a logical sequence of events.

After Carol was killed RH and GL both had reason to think they had to kill to survive, Hill could reasonably think he will be next, Lynn could fear that he would be killed in retaliation.

What I'm not convinced Lynn is being truthful about is what lead to the fighting turning physical.


If I wanted to put forth the theory I believe most likely, I would say Lynn was very drunk, very annoyed with Russell and went to RH campsite with his shotgun in a drunken attempt to intimidate, or show his 'manhood'/toughness but with no intention of causing harm. Scaring people can make you feel powerful and Im sure Lynn liked feeling powerful. Perhaps he felt like it would 'teach them a lesson' for threatening him when they saw him with his BIG gun.

Talking to someone angry and very intoxicated while you're calm and sober often goes 1 of 2 ways.

Either Russell kept calm and sensible for some time, but at some point has got fed up with repeating himself because talking to someone extremely intoxicated is like talking to a brick wall and having judged Lynn as all bark no bite has told him to F Off back to his campsite, which lead to Lynn feeling like he had to remind Russell he was Billy Badass in this campsite so fired shots in the air, that's alarmed Russell and he's gone to grab the gun.

or 2nd way is Russell engaged passively, never escalated, but Lynn kept working himself up and up until he was enraged, stomping around and screaming, perhaps pacing back and forth, venting all his frustration and how better to vent rage than to shoot in the air, at that point Russell would understandably be very concerned and I could understand him making a grab for the weapon, or Russell has said something about Lynn firing shots in the air and Lynn got in his face to say 'what are you gonna do old man' and Russell was concerned enough to feel the need to try and disarm him.




There are a few reasons I think alcohol was likely a factor:

1 IIRC in one of the airline pilot forums soon after his arrest a couple of members talked about him drinking heavily.

2 He has been accused by previous partners and their family of domestic violence, while he was not convicted, the majority of domestic violence is linked with alcohol abuse by the perpetrator.

3 When he was arrested I remember them stating he had said things which concerned them and Lynn was talking about alcohol or getting drunk at camp.

4 I've spent 5 nights a week for years watching drunk people interact like this and Lynn almost perfectly fits the profile of a type who often behave as I described above.


If anyone can remember that airline forum would be great. It had some kind of weird name. With a 9 in it?

So, his one and only lie is that he hadn't been drinking?

Lynn said he had not been drinking alcohol on the night of the deaths and that he did not witness Hill drinking. Link

I agree that people can do nutty things when they are drunk.

BTW I appreciate your input, I just don't agree that is the way that things went down. I think Russell was more of an old school fist person than a weapons person. And I think Lynn shot them both, so he 'had to' burn their bodies for his story to have any validity.

 

[CyberHound]

I don't drop in here often but wouldn't there be blood spatter of a shot that killed Russell? Provably a shot and not a knife?

 

[drsleuth]

It's just so convenient that Lynn was able to destroy all evidence & make up what ever "story" he liked I guess.

No other living person able to confirm his version of events.

IMO

 

[drsleuth]

I don't often drop in here but wouldn't there be blood spatter of a shot that killed Russell? Provably a shot and not a knife?

Lynn destroyed all the evidence

 

[CyberHound]

Lynn destroyed all the evidence

Wouldn't Lynn's DNA be on the front of the Toyota if a fight took place against it? And if there was no DNA wouldn't there be evidence of it being wiped down?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Greg Lynn's reality surpasses The Truman Show, as he testifies in his own murder trial

Greg Lynn told police his life felt like a Hollywood movie. This week, it played out like one as the accused killer stepped up to the witness box and defended himself in the Supreme Court of Victoria.

www.abc.net.au

After he covered up the deaths of two people, Mr Lynn felt like he was being watched. Strangers seemed overly friendly and appeared to have ulterior motives. The paranoia had set in, Mr Lynn told detectives, because "everyone knows what's going on and you don't".

This week, Mr Lynn did something even The Truman Show's creators hadn't dreamt up for their protagonist — he got to testify in his own double-murder trial.

During three-and-a-half hours in the Supreme Court witness box, Mr Lynn said he was introduced to guns by his father as a 16-year-old; he'd spent time working as an asparagus picker and Tasmanian river guide; and during his piloting career he used Jetstar-issued gloves to clean up his planes.

"Most of the pilots just take off and leave the cabin crew to do that," Mr Lynn said, "but I always grab some gloves, go through, help them clean up".

 

[SouthAussie]

Greg Lynn's reality surpasses The Truman Show, as he testifies in his own murder trial

Greg Lynn told police his life felt like a Hollywood movie. This week, it played out like one as the accused killer stepped up to the witness box and defended himself in the Supreme Court of Victoria.

www.abc.net.au

After he covered up the deaths of two people, Mr Lynn felt like he was being watched. Strangers seemed overly friendly and appeared to have ulterior motives. The paranoia had set in, Mr Lynn told detectives, because "everyone knows what's going on and you don't".

This week, Mr Lynn did something even The Truman Show's creators hadn't dreamt up for their protagonist — he got to testify in his own double-murder trial.

During three-and-a-half hours in the Supreme Court witness box, Mr Lynn said he was introduced to guns by his father as a 16-year-old; he'd spent time working as an asparagus picker and Tasmanian river guide; and during his piloting career he used Jetstar-issued gloves to clean up his planes.

"Most of the pilots just take off and leave the cabin crew to do that," Mr Lynn said, "but I always grab some gloves, go through, help them clean up".

So the club membership was to a shooting club. One mystery solved!

imo

 

[TootsieFootsie]

"Most of the pilots just take off and leave the cabin crew to do that," Mr Lynn said, "but I always grab some gloves, go through, help them clean up".

What a good guy.

 

[SouthAussie]

What a good guy.

Mr Tidy. I hear he is also pretty good at cleaning up crime scenes.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

So the club membership was to a shooting club. One mystery solved!

That sounds familiar to me. It was not long after his arrest that I remember reading that.
I had forgotten it.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Found it.

Found Deceased - Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 Mar 2020 #6 *charges*

I wonder when forensic experts were called in to examine the room GL stayed in at the hotel. What makes me a bit suss with this statement is that surely the hotel owners would have washed the white bathmat after each guest has stayed in that particular room. Also, surely they vaccum the room...

www.websleuths.com

Accused high country killer was in ‘Wild West’ gun club

Greg Lynn had been accepted into an “old American west” style gun club days before he allegedly murdered campers Carol Clay and Russell Hill.

The article I think was behind a paywall.