Australia - Russell Hill & Carol Clay Murdered While Camping - Wonnangatta Valley, 2020 #7

[Spectrix]

Not sure why Justice Croucher has seen fit to remove 'manslaughter' when he said earlier it was in play?

The way I understand it, the prosecution's version of events didn't support a charge of manslaughter, and Lynn's version of events also didn't support a charge of manslaughter.
As no possible scenarios or evidence related to a manslaughter charge came to light during the course of the trial, the only options open to the jury for each death is now murder, or nothing.

As Lynn has already admitted to destruction of evidence, that charge isn't being contested and as such the jury don't need to make a finding about it.

 

[JBowie]

Errrr.. so you don't become a high court judge without having ability.....I'm sure your comment was in jest!

Regardless of their history, peoples' work performance can vary over time.

I need to see his explanation for the reversal in question.

 

[Poirot's niece]

Maybe this?

You must have a full set of fingerprints taken when applying for a:

• Category D Longarm Licence.
• Category E Longarm Licence.
• Category 1 Collectors Licence.
• General Category Handgun Licence.
• Category E Handgun Licence.
• Licensed Firearm Dealer Licence (all employees and close associates must be fingerprinted).

Apply for a new firearm licence

How to apply for a new firearm or gun licence in Victoria, and what you need to do to submit your application to Victoria Police.

www.police.vic.gov.au

This is interesting and I believe the accused would not of required fingerprinting (except due to his profession or possible handgun licenses). I have Cat D & E for control of feral animals on my rural mixed bush nature conservation property. I don't hunt anywhere else except if I have to euthanase a roo, wombat etc hit by a car. I got my license 10-12 years ago in Vic and fingerprinting was definitely not required then. The accused is a long time hunter, he likely would've first got his license way before me. I assume the requirements have changed since then however when someone's license is expiring and needs renewal the new conditions likely apply so perhaps he did undergo fingerprinting. When renewing one has to be detailed and meticulous with all documentation and restate/confirm all previous info, data etc There are also random official checks that occur to ensure a license holder is storing firearms to exact safety regulations.

 

[JBowie]

As no possible scenarios or evidence related to a manslaughter charge came to light during the course of the trial, the only options open to the jury for each death is now murder, or nothing.

If this is what the judge said then IMO it opens the door to anyone similarly inclined to take a page out of Lynn's copybook and (assuming he's found not guilty) also get away with murder.

 

[JudgeJudi]

From the same podcast:
Cross examination

GL agreed that all of the following would have confirmed his story:

. If he had left RH with the knife stuck in his heart.
. If he had left the mirror with the hole in it.
. It would have been possible for a forensic pathologist to look at CC’s and RH’s wounds if he had left them there as it would have helped determine their causes of death.
. It would have helped determine the trajectory of the bullet.
. There would have been traces of RH on GL’s gun.
. There would have been traces of RH in GL’s car. “On the gun bag, yes”.

Pordeccu said GL’s version of the struggle could never have happened that way because of the rope between the bonnet of RH’s ute and the portable toilet where GL said the struggle took place. The piece of rope holds the toilet to the bullbar and he would have been entangled in it. GL replied that it never got in the way because he thinks RH lifted up the rope with the shotgun. That’s when he saw it and grabbed it.

He was asked if he saw him do that. He replied no, he only saw the barrel. Pordeccu said GL never knew there was a piece of rope between the toilet and the bullbar. GL said he didn’t see it. Pordeccu said if it happened the way GL described, if he grabbed the barrel and it’s over the bonnet height, it would have been on top of the string. GL replied, “That’s why he must have lifted the rope up with the barrel of the shotgun”.

"You saw Mr Cogan give evidence and produce a video of him going around the vehicle and ducking underneath the string". GL said Cogan moved under the guy rope without any trouble at all. “He had to duck under that string, didn’t he?” GL said “Yes, and I got under the string as I moved around the front of the Landcruiser”. Pordeccu says he thought GL didn’t remember what he did with the string. GL repeated that it didn’t get in the way and he must have come under the string.

GL agreed that RH was holding part of the firearm. “You don’t say his finger was on the trigger?” GL replied that he did not see his finger on the trigger.

Link

 

[Skyboy90]

If this is what the judge said then IMO it opens the door to anyone similarly inclined to take a page out of Lynn's copybook and (assuming he's found not guilty) also get away with murder.

This verdict is going to be bloody tough on RH and CC’s families if acquitted.

GL might be robbed of his career if acquitted, but he still has freedom. Something that RH and CC won’t ever get a chance to experience again.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Re the painting of the car after the events of that horrible day.
GL used paint he had in his garage which wasn't meant for cars.

I think he used that so he wouldn't have to go to a shop and get caught on CCTV

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I'm getting a feeling that i'm starting to get on tenterhooks.
Breathe, breathe I say to myself.

It must be many times worse for the families of the victims

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I'd like to be a fly on the wall in that jury room.

 

[Bats]

I'm getting a feeling that i'm starting to get on tenterhooks.
Breathe, breathe I say to myself.

It must be many times worse for the families of the victims

Yes me too Tootsie. And yes, it must be torture warranting a trial in itself, for the families involved!

I don't expect the jury to come out with a verdict straight away. It's a pretty complex trial especially with 2 alleged murders. I think there'll be few questions asked from the jury tomorrow.

 

[Skyboy90]

Just confirming he can be found guilty of one death and not the other?

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Lynn’s account of campsite deaths is ‘complete fiction’, prosecutor tells jury

The lead prosecutor has urged a Supreme Court jury to reject Gregory Lynn’s version of events over the deaths of Russell Hill and Carol Clay at a campsite in 2020.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

With very loud music playing GL was supposed to have been alerted to Russell taking the gun from Gls car, by the sound of a drink bottle being knocked over.

Behind a paywall, I think. Posting it here for those who subscribe.

GL should have claimed he has amazing hearing if he expects the jury to believe that despite the music he turned up so loud as to intentionally annoy the couple that he knew what the couple were doing in their tent and heard the drink bottle get knocked over.

 

[Kemug]

Was GL known to take a knife with him when he went camping? Was Russell?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Thanks @Bats.
I wouldn't even be surprised if it goes over to next week. It is complex.

 

[madoodi]

I've got a lot of catching up to do, but this is from the podcast.

The Defendant Takes the Stand
Evidence in chief

He said he heard RH take his shotgun out of the car in the dark. It was dark between 9 and 10pm when the confrontations unfolded.

He had a torch but didn’t have one with him when the struggle took place or when he returned to his car later. He did have a torch when he was cleaning up the scene. RH’s camp was well illuminated but he still had a torch with him.

Bits and pieces were found around the campsite. There was blood spatter on the hitching rails and the tray base of the Toyota, some on the inside of the canopy and he wiped all that off. There was nothing on the passenger door or forward of the passenger door. It was all after where CC was. Solar panels were leaning against the rear left wheel of the Toyota when this happened. They had quite a lot of blood and other material on them and over the camp furniture which was in front of the tent. Some of it had been knocked over. Some of those pieces were covered in a lot of tissue and blood and there was a very large pool of blood on the ground in between the Toyota and the tent where CC was.
GL had blood on his clothes.

He brought a rifle and a shotgun on the trip. The shotgun had been used for thick forest where it would be darker and he’d only be aiming for 20-30 metres for a deer. He also used a laser site because the environment is darker and it was quite useful. It threw out a laser beam and showed where a solid slug would fly through the air. He reasoned that in the struggle over the gun, the shot had gone through the side mirror of the car, and that if someone had shot CC with the laser site on, the laser would have illuminated the mirror and not her. He destroyed the mirror when cleaning the camp and burning the campsite.

The evening after the deaths, after destroying evidence and moving the bodies, he stayed at a campsite called The Pines near Jamieson on his drive home. Here he burned the RH’s drone, keys and kitchen knife he said caused RH’s death. He threw the phones in the Rose River as he wanted to erase all his involvement in what had happened as they might have had photographs of him or his vehicle.

He denies having any intention to hurt or kill RH or CC. During his struggles with RH, his intention was trying to get the shotgun from him the first time and trying to defend himself the second time. He burned his bloody clothes.

Link

Thanks for that info JudgeJudi.
I wonder why GL would think there are pictures of him or his vehicle on them, if they were supposedly trying to have some fun (or words to that effect) that GL used.

As others have pointed out usually when sometimes tells such detailed lies, there is some truth to it. I think he did confront RH about the drone and that's when the struggle ensued. I think he shot RH then killed CC. I'm not too sure how guns work but perhaps wherever RH was shot (if he was shot), the evidence was more confined as opposed to where CC was shot. Can someone please remind me if GL claims RH came at him with GL's knife or RH's own knife? I find it hard to believe that RH would come at him twice with GL's own weapons!

I also find GL's demeanour, which he claims is calm under pressure a bit unbelievable. I know everyone is different and deals with things differently, but if you just witnessed 2 people die a very bloody death, that is extremely traumatic for an innocent person. And then to relive it on the stand would have me in pieces. But even on the stand he was so calm and seemingly unphased. But then again GL made the concious decision to destroy any and all evidence he could think of, so meticulously. He thought of so many things and then destroying their bodies is just atrocious and I feel that goes waaay beyond being calm under pressure.

To me, it really seems like this is not his first rodeo. He had no intention of ever getting caught, he even believes what he did was justified to protect himself and his family (and his memberships)! Just such a pity that he completely destroyed the evidence that would show that he is most likely lying. It very much boils down to if his story has planted some doubt in the jury's mind. I hope the jury finds him guilty and finds that murder is the only reasonable explanation that could have happened to these innocent people.

Apologies for the rant! All IMOO of course!

 

[JBowie]

I'd like to be a fly on the wall in that jury room.

I'd like to be foreman.

 

[madoodi]

Lynn’s account of campsite deaths is ‘complete fiction’, prosecutor tells jury

The lead prosecutor has urged a Supreme Court jury to reject Gregory Lynn’s version of events over the deaths of Russell Hill and Carol Clay at a campsite in 2020.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

With very loud music playing GL was supposed to have been alerted to Russell taking the gun from Gls car, by the sound of a drink bottle being knocked over.

Behind a paywall, I think. Posting it here for those who subscribe.

Yes, he must have incredible hearing it seems

Also seems strange how RH knew exactly where to go to get his gun, and why only take the one gun and not both?

IMO

 

[madoodi]

I wonder if any other "unfortunate incidents" happened to GL over the years ?

Yes, he seems very unlucky indeed I also wonder what other unfortunate souls have crossed paths with him prior.

So on his account RH accidentally shoots and kills CC, so why not just go at GL with the gun? Or is GL saying he got the gun off of RH? You'd think that if RH did accidentally shoot CC, his first reaction would be to go to her and check on her.
Come to think of it, perhaps with there being some truth to GL's lies, perhaps he threatened them with the gun. RH tries to defend themselves and GL accidentally shoots CC in the struggle and then of course has to then kill RH...

IMOO

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Then there was the previous time he repainted his car, because he didn't like the colour or it was a bit rusty, I forget.

 

[madoodi]

Then there was the previous time he repainted his car, because he didn't like the colour or it was a bit rusty, I forget.

I've never known anyone to repaint their car so often, let alone to do it themselves

MOO