Australia - Russell Hill & Carol Clay Murdered While Camping - Wonnangatta Valley, 2020 #8

[drsleuth]

Are these reporters - Cassie & Rochelle - saying anything this afternoon on twitter. I don't have an account, so I can't view it.

Nope.

I don't think we will hear anything (unless the jury have questions?) until they reach a verdict.

In the Carly McBride case ( I know it wasn't as high profile as this one ) we heard nothing for over 2 weeks , not a peep, not a question , nothing at all. They deliberated from the 8th June to the 24th ( 13 court days ) it seemed like forever waiting..........

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Nope.

I don't think we will hear anything (unless the jury have questions?) until they reach a verdict.

In the Carly McBride case ( I know it wasn't as high profile as this one ) we heard nothing for over 2 weeks , not a beep, not a question , nothing at all. They deliberated from the 8th June to the 24th ( 13 court days ) it seemed like forever waiting..........

I'm hearing you but they finished deliberating at 4pm yesterday. Assuming today's hours are the same, I would have thought at least one news outlet would have reported by now that day 2 had concluded without a verdict having been reached.

It's like they have all taken their bats and balls and gone home.

I guess they are all now just waiting for their 'the jury's back' call.

 

[drsleuth]

I'm hearing you but they finished deliberating at 4pm yesterday. Assuming today's hours are the same, I would have thought at least one news outlet would have reported by now that day 2 had concluded without a verdict having been reached.

It's like they have all taken their bats and balls and gone home.

I guess they are all now just waiting for their 'the jury's back' call.

I think they just assume that we know they are still deliberating , until we hear they have reached a verdict, it's a safe assumption I guess.

 

[drsleuth]

Here you go Cliff

x.com
7NEWS Melbourne
@7NewsMelbourne
·
14m

BREAKING: The jury which has been deliberating for a second day in the Greg Lynn murder trial has now gone home for the day. Crime reporter
@cassiezervos
has the latest. http://7NEWS.com.au #7NEWS

Video in link

They asked a question about 4pm, but can't be published for legal reasons.

 

[SouthAussie]

I am still struggling to accept that as sufficient motive for an airline captain out camping to snap and execute two elderly people. Its such a huge leap. I find it more plausible that Hill was killed during an altercation (manslaughter?), and then the lady was murdered as she was the witness. I certainly don't believe his version of events but I think there is more to it than simple cold blood execution.

I honestly can't see a 74 year old man getting into a physical altercation (or two physical altercations) with a 53 year old man.

At 74 years old, a person knows they can fall and break a hip easily, snap a wrist easily, turn an ankle easily. They have learned their current physical limitations by having little accidents ... when doing things they used to do quite capably.
The old bones are not what they used to be. And when a person is out in the wilderness, medical assistance is a long way away.

imo

 

[TootsieFootsie]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1802954683654574320

 

[SnEHnESnE]

Missing campers jury asks to review key evidence

The jury in the trial of accused high country killer Greg Lynn has asked to see recordings of key testimony as deliberations stretch into a third day

The jury in the trial of accused high country killer Greg Lynn has requested recordings of the former pilot’s and a ballistics expert’s evidence.
The 12-person Supreme Court jury has been deliberating since 10am on Monday.

On Tuesday afternoon, the jury requested a recording of the testimonies of Mr Lynn and Paul Griffiths, a ballistics expert with Victoria Police who conducted testing on Mr Lynn’s shotgun.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-victoria/missing-campers-jury-asks-to-review-key-evidence/news-story/fb3115f5c1cf8a9f77de07628ca633be

 

[Sdow]

Nope.

I don't think we will hear anything (unless the jury have questions?) until they reach a verdict.

In the Carly McBride case ( I know it wasn't as high profile as this one ) we heard nothing for over 2 weeks , not a peep, not a question , nothing at all. They deliberated from the 8th June to the 24th ( 13 court days ) it seemed like forever waiting..........

A few of us here are also waiting on a verdict for the Charlise Mutten trial. I think we’re in week 2 in deliberations and have heard nothing. It feels like a lifetime but we all understand the position the jury are in.

 

[jjleroche]

No, it doesn't make sense that he chose to kill 2 people in cold blood. But neither does it make sense that he went 100% into obliterating them from the face of the earth.

Yes, that factor is the crucial point IMO.

Completely destroying (virtually pulverising) the remains of Carol Clay and Russell Hill clearly required considerable
effort and multiple trips to the area. He has stated so.

IIRC these trips to destroy the remains were undertaken over a period of more than a year.
Why would anyone bother to do this unless they were highly motivated to do so? Why would anyone be so highly
motivated to do so. IMO because he knew that there was incriminating evidence

Undoubtedly his efforts to destroy the remains created an "out" for him. Various questions pertaining to cause of death consequently cannot be answered.

JMO

 

[Skyboy90]

So they want to watch the 5 hours of footage then. Well there goes tomorrow, and they will likely spend Thur talking about that footage. Wouldn’t expect anything on this until Friday or next week.

 

[AussieIan]

I still haven't worked out which of the kill claims is the more ridiculous, Russell by falling on his own knife or Carol via a shot that went off inadvertently during a struggle via a car mirror. It's not even good fiction and if Dann succeeds in selling that to the jury he is the guy I want representing me if I ever get into trouble.

There were 549 accidental gun deaths in America in 2021, 463 in 2022. It happens.

Teen dies after falling on own knife

Man dies from own knife

Man dies after falling on own knife during fight

Teen trips and dies after falling on own knife

Teen girl dies falling on knife during struggle with bf

Tased man falls on own knife and dies

Elderly man dies after falling on his own knife

etc



A young man who lived near me died skateboarding home with a pizza and took a beer with him. Drank the beer waiting and put it in his pocket. He hit an uneven paver and came off. The bottle smashed, cut through his femoral and he died. If there were 10,000 simulations of him picking up that pizza how many times would you guess he'd die, let alone that way.

I honestly can't see a 74 year old man getting into a physical altercation (or two physical altercations) with a 53 year old man.

At 74 years old, a person knows they can fall and break a hip easily, snap a wrist easily, turn an ankle easily. They have learned their current physical limitations by having little accidents ... when doing things they used to do quite capably.
The old bones are not what they used to be. And when a person is out in the wilderness, medical assistance is a long way away.

imo

Just depends on the person. I work with a 60yo bouncer and he's a hard man. I don't see him worried about getting physical at 70 either. Russell worked a difficult job in a difficult time, he would have had to have been hard to survive.

I did see anecdotal posts from someone who said their grandfather worker with Russell and he had a sharp tongue which got him in a few punchups. Although I know MM did say in his opinion Russell would have been aware of the risks of an altercation in that kind of country and back down, what would he have done if he felt his safety was at risk if he didn't do anything.

Lynn is doughy, soft looking. Russell would have a good read on peoples ability or propensity for violence working in that industry in those times for as long as he did. If Russell felt like he was in danger due to Lynns behaviour It's more than possible things got physical.


This is all just devils advocate

 

[emirates1957]

There were 549 accidental gun deaths in America in 2021, 463 in 2022. It happens.

Teen dies after falling on own knife

Man dies from own knife

Man dies after falling on own knife during fight

Teen trips and dies after falling on own knife

Teen girl dies falling on knife during struggle with bf

Tased man falls on own knife and dies

Elderly man dies after falling on his own knife

etc



A young man who lived near me died skateboarding home with a pizza and a beer bottle in his pocket. He hit an uneven paver and came off. The bottle smashed, cut through his femoral and he died. If there were 10,000 simulations of him picking up that pizza how many times would you guess he'd die, let alone that way.




Just depends on the person. I work with a 60yo bouncer and he's a hard man. I don't see him worried about getting physical at 70 either. Russell worked a difficult job in a difficult time, he would have had to have been hard to survive.

I did see anecdotal posts from someone who said their grandfather worker with Russell and he had a sharp tongue which got him in a few punchups.

Lynn is doughy, soft looking. Russell would have a good read on peoples ability or propensity for violence working in that industry in those times for as long as he did. If Russell felt like he was in danger due to Lynns behaviour It's more than possible things got physical.

I saw him many times on the crew bus trust me this bloke was built like a brick shi……house.

 

[sapphire blue]

There were 549 accidental gun deaths in America in 2021, 463 in 2022. It happens.

Teen dies after falling on own knife

Man dies from own knife

Man dies after falling on own knife during fight

Teen trips and dies after falling on own knife

Teen girl dies falling on knife during struggle with bf

Tased man falls on own knife and dies

Elderly man dies after falling on his own knife

etc



A young man who lived near me died skateboarding home with a pizza and took a beer with him. Drank the beer waiting and put it in his pocket. He hit an uneven paver and came off. The bottle smashed, cut through his femoral and he died. If there were 10,000 simulations of him picking up that pizza how many times would you guess he'd die, let alone that way.




Just depends on the person. I work with a 60yo bouncer and he's a hard man. I don't see him worried about getting physical at 70 either. Russell worked a difficult job in a difficult time, he would have had to have been hard to survive.

I did see anecdotal posts from someone who said their grandfather worker with Russell and he had a sharp tongue which got him in a few punchups. Although I know MM did say in his opinion Russell would have been aware of the risks of an altercation in that kind of country and back down, what would he have done if he felt his safety was at risk if he didn't do anything.

Lynn is doughy, soft looking. Russell would have a good read on peoples ability or propensity for violence working in that industry in those times for as long as he did. If Russell felt like he was in danger due to Lynns behaviour It's more than possible things got physical.


This is all just devils advocate

Are there stats for Australian accidental gun deaths, data from the US would be extremely different IMO due to a. Their population and b. The easy accessibility of guns.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

If Gl is found not guilty, I can see more bodies being found burned and crushed to bits in the future.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

There were 549 accidental gun deaths in America in 2021, 463 in 2022. It happens.

There are more guns in the US than people and history shows how blase they are with them. Most of the kids over there seem to have guns.

You provided examples of some very unusual deaths there BUT they are all single unusual deaths.

This one trumps all of those. Why? Because if we are to believe the only person left to tell their story, this one involves 2 very unusual deaths occurring not just on the same day but minutes apart.

Most unusual! Or just plain fiction?

 

[AussieIan]

I saw him many times on the crew bus trust me this bloke was built like a brick shi……house.

Really? I suppose the media is known for picking unflattering photos but there's only a few full body ones of him I've seen and he doesn't look like that to me. I'm sure you've already shared any insights you have on him previously but did you ever see or hear about him drunk or talking about drinking?

Are there stats for Australian accidental gun deaths, data from the US would be extremely different IMO due to a. Their population and b. The easy accessibility of guns.

I didn't think it mattered just showing that it can and does happen and you just need a firearm involved.

I did look though. Around 30 in 2012 if I read this correctly

Body region injured:

For deaths, the head was by far the most common region injured—accounting for over 80% of cases. A further 14% ofcases sustained injuries to the neck and trunk

https://www.aihw.gov.au/getmedia/fd06f3d6-eac7-47d3-a187-4d0e0f188b27/20368-firearm-injuries-deaths.pdf?v=20230605182047&inline=true

The below link is far better with statistical breakdown but covers 1991-2001.

https://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/tandi269

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Jury in former Jetstar pilot's campers murder trial ask key questions

A jury in the Greg Lynn murder trial has returned to court to ask two key questions that could help them return a unanimous verdict.

www.dailymail.co.uk

On Tuesday, Justice Michael Croucher was advised the jury wanted to see video recordings of both Lynn and ballistics expert Senior Constable Paul Griffiths giving their evidence in court.

The jury went home at about 4pm on Tuesday and will not receive an answer to the request until sometime on Wednesday.

 

[SouthAussie]

Are there stats for Australian accidental gun deaths, data from the US would be extremely different IMO due to a. Their population and b. The easy accessibility of guns.

Negligible. You can see the statistics change dramatically after the gun amnesty in 2006.

Calculated Numbers of Gun Deaths - Australia – GunPolicy.org

Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and development

www.gunpolicy.org

 

[Cliff Hardy]

While you are searching @AussieIan, find some examples of double accidental deaths occurring within minutes of each other by different means. Preferably where someone has something to gain from them being 'accidental' like GL has here.

 

[solari]

I am still struggling to accept that as sufficient motive for an airline captain out camping to snap and execute two elderly people. Its such a huge leap. I find it more plausible that Hill was killed during an altercation (manslaughter?), and then the lady was murdered as she was the witness. I certainly don't believe his version of events but I think there is more to it than simple cold blood execution.

Airline Captain doesn't mean he didn't have that inside him to do an evil act, just like cops doing bad things or teachers, doctors, electricians... If you catch my drift, profession doesn't really depict who someone really is or what they are capable of, imo.
Speaking from a personal experience, I was out camping in the bush at a national park here in Australia and was threatened with being shot and killed all because after being kept up all night by 4 other campers I gently let them know the next morning that there is a 10pm rule for noise, and that if rules are being broken you can be reported to the ranger and to next time be more mindful of other campers, they were up all night yelling laughing, being obnoxiously loud until 7am, less than 10 meters from my camp on a Tuesday night, I'm just glad I didn't get up during the night to let them know how much they were disturbing the peace ALL night and disregarding the basic rules because who knows what would of happened that night if I had of, we also don't know if GL had any dependencies, police weren't able to test him because he destroyed the crime scene and didn't own up. He might of been completely sober, but he may not have been, we all know how certain substances alone or combined with others can make people more enraged or irrational.