Australia - Russell Hill & Carol Clay Murdered While Camping - Wonnangatta Valley, 2020 #8

[Cliff Hardy]

Perhaps I should go back to uni although if I can't convince you guys those high fees will remain out of reach...

Cross a future in comedy off your list.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

What is everyone thinking the jury are specifically looking for when reviewing the footage? Or do you think they just want to simply go over it again?

MOO

We can only guess but my guess is that things currently sit at around 10-2 or 11-1 for guilty and the majority are asking the minority to reconsider some of the evidence in the hope a unanimous verdict can be reached.

Asking to see/hear Lynn's evidence is interesting. Perhaps a case of a jury member or two making the final call in their mind as to whether he is a murderer or not.

 

[CredibleSauce]

• The act causing death was performed consciously, voluntarily and deliberately by the accused
• The accused performed the act causing death intending to kill the other person or intending to cause that person at least really serious injury;

You really think so? They haven't proven either of the above beyond a reasonable doubt to me.

The prosecution has literally no account of his actions during the deaths. I don't know if it's some morbidity thing but a lot of people are scary quick to vote guilty. I certainly wouldn't want you on my jury if I was innocent in an unlikely scenario, which can and do happen all the time.

Hopefully then if you were ever caught up in a scenario like GL describes, you’d have the foresight not to destroy every shred of evidence that could prove your version of events.
If things did in fact go down like GL says they did, there would have been an abundance of evidence that would have absolutely absolved him had it been reported and documented when it happened, so I guess it’s a lesson for us all to not remove, burn, smash up into fragments and hide peoples remains if we ever had the inclination to do so following a terrible accident. ‍

 

[Bats]

DBM

 

[jjleroche]

If it were me, I'd want to check the likelihood of the weapon being accidentally fired in a scuffle - ie what failsafe mechanisms are there on that weapon which would be likely to prevent such an action occurring.

What does a user have to do to actually get the weapon to fire? (IIRC, a reasonable amount of effort is required - it wouldn't just fire if it were bumped for example)
JMO

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Hopefully then if you were ever caught up in a scenario like GL describes, you’d have the foresight not to destroy every shred of evidence that could prove your version of events.
If things did in fact go down like GL says they did, there would have been an abundance of evidence that would have absolutely absolved him had it been reported and documented when it happened, so I guess it’s a lesson for us all to not remove, burn, smash up into fragments and hide peoples remains if we ever had the inclination to do so following a terrible accident. ‍

That's all and good if you are indeed innocent but if a person you are trying to claim fell on a knife also has a bullet hole in his head, well...

 

[AussieIan]

What is everyone thinking the jury are specifically looking for when reviewing the footage? Or do you think they just want to simply go over it again?

MOO

The judge singled out the prosecutor and Griffiths in summing up to the jury, perhaps they want to watch both individuals testimony again now they've been made aware of the discrepancies.

Justice Croucher told the jury Lynn and Senior Constable Griffiths had not been given an opportunity to respond to multiple allegations put to them by Mr Porceddu in his closing address.

On Friday, Justice Croucher took aim at Crown prosecutor Daniel Porceddu for breaking the well established rules of 'fairness' in his closing address.

'The rule of fairness was breached by Mr Porceddu when making arguments to you,' he told the jury.

'Had Mr Porceddu asked Mr Lynn these questions, put these propositions to him, Mr Lynn may well have been able to respond in a powerful and convincing way.'

The jury heard Mr Porceddu made the mistake of making submissions in his closing address that he did not give Lynn an opportunity to answer while he was in the witness box last week.

I found the site providing transcripts for the trial and emailed them.

Also came across this statement in court from Dann I hadn't seen before.

Lynn had provided police with 1057 pieces of information and prosecutors had not proven that one of them was a lie.

 

[Doesitmakesense]

If it were me, I'd want to check the likelihood of the weapon being accidentally fired in a scuffle - ie what failsafe mechanisms are there on that weapon which would be likely to prevent such an action occurring.

What does a user have to do to actually get the weapon to fire? (IIRC, a reasonable amount of effort is required - it wouldn't just fire if it were bumped for example)
JMO

That what I think too. From what I've read IMO it's not just a slip of the finger to get that gun to fire

 

[Cliff Hardy]

That what I think too. From what I've read IMO it's not just a slip of the finger to get that gun to fire

I remember Alec Baldwin trying to make it all go away by claiming he didn't pull the trigger and after forensic examination it was determined the only way the gun in question would fire is if you did pull the trigger.

 

[AussieIan]

That what I think too. From what I've read IMO it's not just a slip of the finger to get that gun to fire

I remember Alec Baldwin trying to make it all go away by claiming he didn't pull the trigger and after forensic examination it was determined the only way the gun in question would fire is if you did pull the trigger.

The below video helps demonstrate how little effort it would take to move a trigger with a 3.95kg pull on it. This guy is at 10kg and you can do it easily with 1 finger. It may have been an above average pull weight for a firearm but far from being difficult.

Vid should start at 4:03

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Pretty sure I remember Porceddu asking Lynn numerous times whether Hill had his finger on the trigger and Lynn replying 'I don't know.'

It of course raises two other questions :
1/ Why would Hill have made the effort to make the gun fireable?
2/ Why on earth would HIll have his finger on the trigger?

 

[drsleuth]

What are the odds , you get into an "altercation" with someone with a gun & knife, 2 people end up dead & you get NO injuries. Very lucky??

 

[Cliff Hardy]

What are the odds , you get into an "altercation" with someone with a gun & knife, 2 people end up dead & you get NO injuries. Very lucky??

Sounds like a sequence of very fortunate events.

 

[sapphire blue]

Sounds like a sequence of very fortunate events.

Unbelievably fortunate events at that

 

[JBowie]

Unbelievably fortunate events at that

Almost too fortunate.

Let's hope the jury feels exactly the same way.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Maybe tomorrow.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Maybe tomorrow.

The glass half full view is we are a day closer to a verdict.

 

[SouthAussie]

https://www.thenewdaily.com.au/news/crime-news/2024/06/19/greg-lynn-jury-video-evidence

Well, the jury would only just have got the videos late today. So I imagine it will take the rest of the week to go through them ... stopping and starting them, making notes, comparing testimony, etc.


However, he said it could take the court until the end of Wednesday to edit the videos before they were given to them.

“You will see it in three files on a USB. Apparently it’s taking some time to download because it’s big, because of the nature of the recording,” Croucher said.

“But it’ll be with you pretty shortly, so you’ll be able to play that in the jury room at your leisure.”

(from your link)

 

[SouthAussie]

That what I think too. From what I've read IMO it's not just a slip of the finger to get that gun to fire

Definitely not.
And the BIG question is why on earth would Russell have prepared the gun for firing???
Answer: He wouldn't have. imo


He took the jury through how to manually load the magazine, rack the bolt-action firearm and c@ck it before releasing the safety mechanism and pulling the trigger.
He noted it had a cross-bolt safety mechanism.

(from my paraphrased previous post)

 

[SouthAussie]

As well as the videos, the jury will receive a table of where to find various bits of evidence in the video files.

Croucher told them it was up to them if they wanted to watch the entire videos or just specific parts of them.

He also said that if they were interested in a particular topic, they should also consider how the evidence was dealt with in the evidence-in-chief, the cross examination and the re-examination.

(Paraphrased from this HS article)

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-victoria/missing-campers-jury-asks-to-review-key-evidence/news-story/fb3115f5c1cf8a9f77de07628ca633be?amp