Found Deceased Australia - Samuel Thompson, 22, Albion, Qld, 7 March 2017 *Arrests* #3

[InFocus]

They have been charged with murder for good reason, and don't think police do that lightly.
Who here thinks that Tostee is innocent?

Yep 100% agree Tostee is innocent (but he's not someone I'd like to associate with) , many didn't like the verdict, but it was the correct decision. But we can debate that elsewhere.

I personally think in Gerard Baden Clay case, despite being charged with murder, had he said from day 1 I had a fight with my wife, she fell hit her head and I panicked then he could have so easily have been found guilty of manslaughter, instead of murder. But he rolled the dice thinking he could foolishly pass off those scratches as shaving cuts and denied everything; a bad move on his part.

It will be interesting to see if both co-accused try to blame the other (or plead their role was less); it's always been a defense used in so many cases of duel arrests.

A good defense lawyer goes along way when faced with a murder charge IMO.

 

[possumheart]

fftobed:

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Not all people charged with murder, are in fact murderers (no intent to kill etc) . So we do have to be careful about throwing that word around, until we know all the facts. It could be a situation were there's no intent to kill, no premeditation, that it all got out of hand. I'm not making a defense for either of the accused. However, until the brief of evidence is presented before the courts, public opinion can't be 100% certain that both accused are in fact murderers; despite both being charged with the same offence. JMO

I hope everyone sticks around for the trial, it's interesting to follow and discussions are more focused. We're all over the place atm, but that's part and parcel of sleuthing and theorizing with very little to work with. I'm pretty sure they'll plead not guilty to murder. If they haven't concocted a story together before they were arrested, they'll blame each other for Sam's death, imo.
This was the case for another murdering duo, Roger Rogerson and Glen McNamara, even with their maturity and experience they behaved like amateurs, CCTV captured every step from luring Jamie Gao to his death and to the disposal of his body.

 

[Freya1977]

MOO -
RB may be a police informant hence media blackout and lack of profile. Just a thought.

Very interesting thought.....

 

[Karinna]

Yep 100% agree Tostee is innocent, many didn't like the verdict, but it was the correct decision. But we can debate that elsewhere.

I personally think in Gerard Baden Clay case, despite being charged with murder, had he said from day 1 I had a fight with my wife, she fell hit her head and I panicked then he could have so easily have been found guilty of manslaughter, instead of murder. But he rolled the dice thinking he could foolishly pass off those scratches as shaving cuts and denied everything; a bad move on his part.

It will be interesting to see if both co-accused try to blame the other (or plead their role was less); it's always been a defense used in so many cases of duel arrests.

A good defense lawyer goes along way when faced with a murder charge IMO.

Analogies are made here all the time in reference to other cases, and yes GT as well in this case if you read back. And the GBC case as well. So is it ok. or isn't it?

 

[Marples]

I understand fully vehicular homicide. No one gets beaten to death in that deliberately, even though it is classified as manslaughter in some cases depending on the circumstances.

Whether ST was beaten to death deliberately or beaten to such an extent he could have reasonably be expected to die, even if this was not what was initially intended, both may attract a murder charge. That does not mean the same chain of events occurred: only that the outcome was the same and reasonable to anticipate.


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[Karinna]

I hope everyone sticks around for the trial, it's interesting to follow and discussions are more focused. We're all over the place atm, but that's part and parcel of sleuthing and theorizing with very little to work with. I'm pretty sure they'll plead not guilty to murder. If they haven't concocted a story together before they were arrested, they'll blame each other for Sam's death, imo.
This was the case for another murdering duo, Roger Rogerson and Glen McNamara, even with their maturity and experience they behaved like amateurs, CCTV captured every step from luring Jamie Gao to his death and to the disposal of his body.

From my understanding a criminal pleads NG as part of the legal process if a case goes to Trial.
Otherwise there is a plea deal on the table and it won't go to trial. Maybe different in Aus, though?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Yep 100% agree Tostee is innocent, many didn't like the verdict, but it was the correct decision. But we can debate that elsewhere.

I personally think in Gerard Baden Clay case, despite being charged with murder, had he said from day 1 I had a fight with my wife, she fell hit her head and I panicked then he could have so easily have been found guilty of manslaughter, instead of murder. But he rolled the dice thinking he could foolishly pass off those scratches as shaving cuts and denied everything; a bad move on his part.

It will be interesting to see if both co-accused try to blame the other (or plead their role was less); it's always been a defense used in so many cases of duel arrests.

A good defense lawyer goes along way when faced with a murder charge IMO.

OT
Re: GBC - Because it didn't happen that way. If you followed the trial, it was murder.

 

[Karinna]

Whether ST was beaten to death deliberately or beaten to such an extent he could have reasonably be expected to die, even if this was not what was initially intended, both may attract a murder charge. That does not mean the same chain of events occurred: only that the outcome was the same and reasonable to anticipate.


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There will be other evidence from autopsy i would think. The beating was only an external observation from LE. The coroner will determine any other injuries, like broken bones, signs of torture that some on here have alluded to as well.
We are not privy to that.

 

[InFocus]

I hope everyone sticks around for the trial, it's interesting to follow and discussions are more focused. We're all over the place atm, but that's part and parcel of sleuthing and theorizing with very little to work with. I'm pretty sure they'll plead not guilty to murder. If they haven't concocted a story together before they were arrested, they'll blame each other for Sam's death, imo.
This was the case for another murdering duo, Roger Rogerson and Glen McNamara, even with their maturity and experience they behaved like amateurs, CCTV captured every step from luring Jamie Gao to his death and to the disposal of his body.

Yes the Jamie Gao was a perfect case where Rogerson and McNamara blamed the other, yet the evidence clearly proved they both were guilty of murder.

 

[Karinna]

Yes the Jamie Gao was a perfect case where Rogerson and McNamara blamed the other, yet the evidence clearly proved they both were guilty of murder.

Yep, found guilty as charged.

 

[slinkyminx73]

There will be other evidence from autopsy i would think. The beating was only an external observation from LE. The coroner will determine any other injuries, like broken bones, signs of torture that some on here have alluded to as well.
We are not privy to that.

Also too, ST may not have died immediately so there could have been a chance to get him medical care. If they went past that point - murder could be on the table not manslaughter?



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[Karinna]

Also too, ST may not have died immediately so there could have been a chance to get him medical care. If they went past that point - murder could be on the table not manslaughter?




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I'm not aware of any manslaughter charges in this case, only murder at this point in time? I'm not sure exactly what they both did to ST, but anything is possible until we know more?

 

[Marples]

Also too, ST may not have died immediately so there could have been a chance to get him medical care. If they went past that point - murder could be on the table not manslaughter?



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Yes. I guess it depends what shape ST's remains were in and how much could be learned from them. Still no COD announced so far I don't think: doesn't mean they don't have one, of course.

I'd imagine things went pretty quickly, if ST was dead by the time they started moving his car around at 1pm, as he likely arrived around 11 am.

Unless they left him alive, captive at RB's while they took his car to the reserve. But that's pretty risky if RB lived with his GF, she may have come home?

Apparently police said they felt he was left in the forest on the same date he disappeared.

I'll be interested to hear more when it goes to trial.


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[SouthAussie]

Whether ST was beaten to death deliberately or beaten to such an extent he could have reasonably be expected to die, even if this was not what was initially intended, both may attract a murder charge. That does not mean the same chain of events occurred: only that the outcome was the same and reasonable to anticipate.


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Well, we do not know that Sam was beaten to death. We presume there was a fair bit of blood, due to the floor sander and acid.
The mention of body parts makes me think exsanguination may have occurred (unexpectedly) due to some kind of deliberate cutting perhaps. One holding Sam down, one doing the cutting.

Morgan Huxley very quickly went into shock from exsanguination. He was discovered within 15 minutes or so. Could not even speak, from weakness and blood loss by then. The paramedics who arrived very quickly (in 5 mins) could not reverse the effect.

From memory. I believe losing about 30% of your blood can lead to exsanguination. And the blood loss can be internal as well as external. We did a lot of research into it during Morgan's case. Also had a verified doctor on-thread for a while, who gave us lots of useful info.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

From my understanding a criminal pleads NG as part of the legal process if a case goes to Trial.
Otherwise there is a plea deal on the table and it won't go to trial. Maybe different in Aus, though?

Your two basic options are to either plead guilty (then the judge will sentence you) or not guilty (you will have a trial). You need to know what the police and prosecutor are alleging about you before you can decide whether to plead guilty or not guilty. The decision whether to plead guilty or not guilty has to be yours - no one can tell you what to do, but you can get advice from your lawyer.
....
There is no jury if you are pleading guilty.
The charge is read out and you will be asked to enter a plea (tell the judge if you are pleading guilty or not guilty).
The judge will decide your sentence after listening to the prosecutor (a lawyer representing the state who tells the court the police version of the case) and your own lawyer.

http://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/Find...inal-cases-in-the-District-and-Supreme-Courts

 

[Marples]

Well, we do not know that Sam was beaten to death. We presume there was a fair bit of blood, due to the floor sander and acid.
The mention of body parts makes me think exsanguination may have occurred (unexpectedly) due to some kind of deliberate cutting perhaps. One holding Sam down, one doing the cutting.

Morgan Huxley very quickly went into shock from exsanguination. He was discovered within 15 minutes or so. Could not even speak, from weakness and blood loss by then. The paramedics who arrived very quickly (in 5 mins) could not reverse the effect.

From memory I believe losing 30% of your blood can lead to exsanguination. And the blood loss can be internal as well as external.

Agree on all points. Poor Morgan I only referenced beating as the post I replied to discussed it I'm also leaning toward cutting/digit removal.


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[SouthAussie]

There will be other evidence from autopsy i would think. The beating was only an external observation from LE. The coroner will determine any other injuries, like broken bones, signs of torture that some on here have alluded to as well.
We are not privy to that.

Okay. I seem to have missed something. Somewhere it says that Sam was beaten?

 

[Marples]

Okay. I seem to have missed something. Somewhere it says that Sam was beaten?

I never read the word beaten I don't think. Most MSM I saw said Assaulted. I think DM used the word bashed.


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[SouthAussie]

I never read the word beaten I don't think. Most MSM I saw said Assaulted. I think DM used the word bashed.


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Somehow I thought that was in the home invasion ... the Daily Mail reporting of bashed. Not about the murder.

No, I just went back to my own post about it in the last thread, they did say bashed about the murder.