Australia - Siege/Ambush at Remote Property - 6 Dead Including 2 Police/Neighbor - Wieambilla (Queensland)

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TootsieFootsie

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A six-hour siege west of Brisbane on Monday ended with two police officers, a member of the public and three offenders dead.
Four police officers investigating a missing Dubbo man went to a property on Wains Rd, Wieambilla, approximately 300 kilometres west of Brisbane, at about 4:30pm on Monday.

"I'm told as soon as they'd entered the property, they were just inundated with gunfire, and they never had a chance," Mr Leavers told ABC News Breakfast on Tuesday morning.

Three of the officers were shot, Mr Leavers said. Two of those who were hit dropped to the ground.

"The other two police, they were able to take cover and retreat a little bit," Mr Leavers added.


"The two police who were on the ground, they were executed in cold blood."
 
I was just reading about this. Not many details right now, but looking at some basic facts, it seems like a kamikaze.
The location is remote.
There were three suspects, with guns.
Guns are not that easy to get hold of in Australia, compared to other countries.
They continued shooting until they were shot dead by a special force team, after six hours.

The guns will be examined and any identifying numbers or codes, will help towards identifying who these people are and why they did this.
IMO, this was a kamikaze mission to take out as many as possible. JMO

ETA: Adding an amount of time for clarity.
 
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As per @Detective Willy's linked article above, here is more info about the 16 emails that (missing person) Nathaniel Train sent to the Dept of Education. They were spoken of in the Q&A at a session of the Legislative Council, 57th Parliament.

It's about NAPLAN cheating.


EDUCATION AND EARLY LEARNING—NAPLAN RESULTS—The Hon. Mark Latham to ask the Minister for Education and Early Learning—
(1) Did the Deputy Secretary Murat Dizdar visit and meet with Nathaniel Train, Executive Principal of Walgett Community College Primary School on 11 May 2021?
(2) Did Mr Train outline to Mr Dizdar the problem of students being assisted by school staff in completing their NAPLAN tests, in effect, cheating on the test?
(a) How did Mr Dizdar respond?
(3) Was Mr Dizdar given a document headed ‘Sample Scenarios’ which, among other issues, outlined the problem of assessment processes being “compromised by teachers and School Learning Support Officer Teacher's (SLSO) providing assistance to students”, with an example of Year 3 NAPLAN result “anomalies” that included “a student who can’t read scoring 34/36 in their Numeracy Test”, with no other “school testing that supports this data”
(a) How did Mr Dizdar respond to the problem of NAPLAN cheating at the school?


Page 8890 of this document (there is more following what I have posted)
 
This is the first that I have heard they were looking for a missing school principal.
I did read that on BBC, not that he was a school principal or even that he was a he, that they had been 'lured there', via a missing person case. IMO.
I haven't linked before, Am I allowed to link BBC?
 

This is the first that I have heard they were looking for a missing school principal.

This report seems to have some extra info not printed elsewhere yet.

Newer articles are saying that the 2 gunmen who were killed are the brothers?

Yes it was his brother and his wives property.
 
Here’s where lm confused. The family of Mr Train said they hadn’t heard from him in a while and reported him missing. Why wouldn’t they go to his brother’s property? Wouldn’t you assume that’s where he may be? Did the brother call an anonymous tip saying he had seen Mr Train at the property? Is that how they knew police were coming and were ready to shoot them? He was only a missing person not a fugitive, why kill the police??
 
Here’s where lm confused. The family of Mr Train said they hadn’t heard from him in a while and reported him missing. Why wouldn’t they go to his brother’s property? Wouldn’t you assume that’s where he may be? Did the brother call an anonymous tip saying he had seen Mr Train at the property? Is that how they knew police were coming and were ready to shoot them? He was only a missing person not a fugitive, why kill the police??

One of the articles said that the Qld police attended the property at the request of the NSW police.

It's hard to imagine that Nathaniel Train, who was so against the NAPLAN cheating, would go and stay with his brother who hates authority and says the govt is running re-education camps.

I can't imagine how they would know the police were arriving, unless they have some kind of surveillance system.

I also read that it is unknown if Nathaniel Train was found at the property.
 
I can't imagine how they would know the police were arriving, unless they have some kind of surveillance system.
IMO, what if they made the call regarding the missing person. So that's how they knew they were coming originally, after that I would assume they would just be shooting at the injured cop and waiting for the reinforcements to appear, then shooting at them until the special unit arrive, then finally shooting at them until they are neutralized.
That's a lot of shooting.
 
One of the articles said that the Qld police attended the property at the request of the NSW police.

It's hard to imagine that Nathaniel Train, who was so against the NAPLAN cheating, would go and stay with his brother who hates authority and says the govt is running re-education camps.

I can't imagine how they would know the police were arriving, unless they have some kind of surveillance system.

I also read that it is unknown if Nathaniel Train was found at the property.
Okay so that makes sense why the family couldn’t check themselves. IMO it sounds like Nathaniel may have taken on his brothers ideas. Possibly the family knew he was likely at his brothers and were worried for him. I wonder whether they called and told the brother they were sending the police over and he better tell them where Nathaniel is?
 
Here’s where lm confused. The family of Mr Train said they hadn’t heard from him in a while and reported him missing. Why wouldn’t they go to his brother’s property? Wouldn’t you assume that’s where he may be? Did the brother call an anonymous tip saying he had seen Mr Train at the property? Is that how they knew police were coming and were ready to shoot them? He was only a missing person not a fugitive, why kill the police??
Maybe they didn't get on? Had fallen out? it may have been the last place they would consider. It sounds a little hostage, brainwashy? JMO
 


Cop killer Nathaniel Train was a popular primary school principal before his mental health spiralled downward following a heart attack that struck while he was campaigning for action over a cheating scandal at his school.

Train, his brother Gareth and sister-in-law Stacey - also a former primary school principal - executed police constables Matthew Arnold, 26, and Rachel McCrow, 29, and his innocent neighbour, Alan Dare, 58, in an ambush at their rural property in Wieambilla, three hours west of Brisbane, on Monday.

On Tuesday, the father of the brothers, Ronald Train - a retired pastor of 27 years - said: 'I have lost two children.'

I am not going to share anything with you, you can speculate and make up as much as you want,' Mr Train told The Chinchilla News outside his Toowoomba home.

'I have already had conversations with police.'

Nathaniel Train left his job and vanished, walking out on his wife, and had not been seen for months before the savage ambush on Monday.

Train had previously been principal at Innisfail East and Yorkeys Knob State Schools in far north Queensland where he won plaudits for his impact and results.
 


Cop killer Nathaniel Train was a popular primary school principal before his mental health spiralled downward following a heart attack that struck while he was campaigning for action over a cheating scandal at his school.

Train, his brother Gareth and sister-in-law Stacey - also a former primary school principal - executed police constables Matthew Arnold, 26, and Rachel McCrow, 29, and his innocent neighbour, Alan Dare, 58, in an ambush at their rural property in Wieambilla, three hours west of Brisbane, on Monday.

On Tuesday, the father of the brothers, Ronald Train - a retired pastor of 27 years - said: 'I have lost two children.'

I am not going to share anything with you, you can speculate and make up as much as you want,' Mr Train told The Chinchilla News outside his Toowoomba home.

'I have already had conversations with police.'

Nathaniel Train left his job and vanished, walking out on his wife, and had not been seen for months before the savage ambush on Monday.

Train had previously been principal at Innisfail East and Yorkeys Knob State Schools in far north Queensland where he won plaudits for his impact and results.
I don’t know Nathaniel Train, but a good friend of mine taught at a school with him, before he was a principal, and AFAIK - he is and was well known by a lot of people in the Queensland education community. IMO .

“Cop killer Nathaniel Train was a popular primary school principal before his mental health spiralled downward following a heart attack that struck while he was campaigning for action over a cheating scandal at his school”
Ambush gunman's mental heath spiralled after cheating row heart attack


This is no defence at all, but here is some information around the context of the impact of the job of school principal, and the mental health implications of the job.

The pressure on school principals is absolutely phenomenal. The pressure of NAPLAN also is just so intense, and the mental health of school principals in general has been absolutely pushed to the brink especially during Covid, floods and natural disasters - and the pressure of leading and having to deliver results for the Region or the Department has been unrelenting. I will put IMO because I don’t have a link, but this is well know within the school leadership community.

I personally have seen Principals at breaking point, many have complex trauma.

I notice it has been reported in MSM that the sister-in law who was named as one of the shooters, had been a Primary School Principal previously also.

I am still really confused as to why these “gunmen” / and woman, all civilians are executing police, and just generally confused about how and why this occurred.

My questions are:

-Who tipped off police to initiate a welfare check? As in - who tipped off NSW police? Was it one of the gunmen who put in a call? It seems like it may have been.

-How did these people become radicalised? (If in deed that is what occurred.)

-Were they conspiracy theorists?

-Where they involved with their respective Teachers Unions in campaigning?

-What was the impact of the previous “heart attack” on Nathaniel Train, and did that play into this?

My heart goes out to all of the offices involved, including the 16 special forces officers that arrived on the scene, the brave neighbour who died seemingly trying to render assistance, the whole of the QPS force and the Queensland Police Union, who are I’m sure, hurting deeply at this time.

Violence is unacceptable in any form, and the idea that serving officers were apparently “executed” is absolutely terrifying and abhorrent. To me, this is at the high end of violent offending.
 
He said he had a cardiac arrest at his desk and then left the school???

At his desk? OMG.

I know a school Guidance Officer who had a stroke whilst under her desk. She was 35 and healthy.

So did he leave the school via ambulance and just never went back? This is all sounding really very disturbing.
 
My heart goes out to the Police who were only doing their job, their young lives cut short, and to all their families and friends, and colleagues.

Also to the neighbour who was only being a good neighbour. My heart goes out to his wife and other family and friends.

My heart also goes out to the father who has lost both his sons at once, not sure if their mother is still alive, I haven't seen her mentioned. I feel for all the other family members and friends.

I have no sympathy for the two brothers and the brothers wife. There can be no excuse for what they did.

But part of me is wanting to think that only one of them did this, but it seems that all three were willing participants.

I'm editing this after reading @SouthAussie's post.

I've tried to have no sympathy, but I do really :(

Yes, what could have caused a teacher who seemed to care about the rules, to do something like this.

:(
 
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