Australia - Siege/Ambush at Remote Property - 6 Dead Including 2 Police/Neighbor - Wieambilla (Queensland)

[SouthAussie]

A Current Affair has published photos of Constable McCrow and Constable Arnold.

How did a career school teacher and principal turn into a police killer?

9now.nine.com.au

 

[SouthAussie]

My heart goes out to the Police who were only doing their job, their young lives cut short, and to all their families and friends, and colleagues.

Also to the neighbour who was only being a good neighbour. My heart goes out to his wife and other family and friends.

My heart also goes out to the father who has lost both his sons at once, not sure if their mother is still alive, I haven't seen her mentioned. I feel for all the other family members and friends.

I have no sympathy for the two brothers and the brothers wife. There can be no excuse for what they did.

But part of me is wanting to think that only one of them did this, but it seems that all three were willing participants.

It sounds as if their dad had been estranged from Nathaniel.


When Nathaniel went missing his father commented on Facebook saying, "Nathaniel is my youngest son. Whilst we have not seen each other for 23 years, he is much loved."

How did a career school teacher and principal turn into a police killer?

9now.nine.com.au

 

[MrsWatson]

Reposting this Guardian article that gives some background on the family.

Australian police examine conspiracy theories behind shooting deaths of two officers and four others

Conspiracy theories and any prior planning will be central to an investigation in Wieambilla

www.theguardian.com

“I currently live on my rural property in western Queensland were [sic] I have been building an ‘ark’[,] homesteading for the last five years preparing to survive tomorrow. I am not interested in indoctrinating or convincing anyone of anything.”

Train, 47, was paranoid and harboured conspiracy theories. He believed the 1996 Port Arthur massacre – which led to an Australia-wide crackdown on guns – had been a “false-flag operation”. He said tactical police targeted people who were “conspiracy talkers” or “truthers”.

And he was convinced his online posts were being placed in an “intelligence file” by the spy agency the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation.

But police were largely unaware of his online activity when four young constables, all aged under 30, were sent to his property at Wieambilla, about three hours west of Brisbane, on Monday afternoon. The officers were looking for Gareth’s brother Nathaniel, who had been reported missing.

 

[dotr]

Six people— including two cops – killed in Australia shooting

Constables Matthew Arnold, 26, and Rachel McCrow, 29, were shot and killed as they approached a property in rural Wieambilla.

nypost.com

Dec 12 2022

2 officers killed in shooting in rural Queensland - reports

The officers were reportedly ambushed on the property in Wieambilla on Monday night.

www.1news.co.nz

The officers were reportedly ambushed on the property in Wieambilla on Monday night, three hours west of Brisbane.

The Courier Mail says the gunmen were wearing camouflage.

It’s also being reported a neighbour was also shot in the incident.

The ABC reports residents hearing what they believed to be a semi-automatic weapon being fired on the property, which had been unoccupied until the past week.

Several police crews are now at the property, with reports of cars on fire in the hours after the shooting.
The search for the person or people behind the shooting is ongoing.''

 

[SouthAussie]

.
Queensland Police Commissioner speaks about deadly siege at remote property

"It is an unimaginable tragedy"
"This has been incredibly distressing and tragic for everyone - particularly family, officers involved, colleagues, the organisation, and the community."
"As you can imagine, it is an emotional and challenging time for the Qld Police Service" (her voice is breaking with emotion)

"Losing one of our own has a profound impact on every officer and their family"
"To lose two officers in one incident is absolutely devastating."

"I would also like to extend my condolences to the family of the 58 year old man from a neighbouring property who was also killed during this incident."

"And I want to pay tribute to the two other officers who attended the job."
"They bravely did what they could to save their colleagues, in the most horrendous circumstances."
"Their bravery was beyond belief."

"Rachel and Matthew were much loved members of the police service. They were both committed and courageous young people who had a passion for policing and for serving their community."

"With honour, they served."

.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

The ABC reports residents hearing what they believed to be a semi-automatic weapon being fired on the property, which had been unoccupied until the past week.

An earlier report I read said that Nathan's brother had moved there in 2015.
Or maybe that's just when he bought the property ? Or maybe that report was wrong

A neighbour did say the property had been unoccupied.

So you move into somewhere and a week later, you, your brother and wife are dead,
No attempt to surrender to police.

Seems the object was to kill as many police as possible, and anyone else who they thought might get in their way,
and for them to be shot by police.

Did somehow some of them think they were going to become martyrs in the eyes of some crackpot conspiracy believers or cause.

And for the police to become the villains

 

[dotr]

 

[livewiiiiire]

A caption in this DM article says, "NSW Police issued a missing persons notice for him four days ago and had asked Queensland Police to make a routine check with his brother at his rural property" under the 9th picture of the Gallery. I wonder if this was the first missing persons report for him? And if so, why? He left his job in March and later walked out on his wife, ceasing contact on Oct 9th. That is a long time to wait before calling police if both his wife and family (sans brother) hadn't heard from him in almost 2 months.
(Link to what I am referencing: Ambush gunman's mental heath spiralled after cheating row heart attack )

 

[Ellery84]

A caption in this DM article says, "NSW Police issued a missing persons notice for him four days ago and had asked Queensland Police to make a routine check with his brother at his rural property" under the 9th picture of the Gallery. I wonder if this was the first missing persons report for him? And if so, why? He left his job in March and later walked out on his wife, ceasing contact on Oct 9th. That is a long time to wait before calling police if both his wife and family (sans brother) hadn't heard from him in almost 2 months.
(Link to what I am referencing: Ambush gunman's mental heath spiralled after cheating row heart attack )

Exactly. I just wonder if the missing persons report was put out by the trio in an attempt to “bait” police.

I also wonder if perhaps the deadly trio / suspects had one of those devices that can intercept or detect police radio?

Otherwise - how did they know to be ready for the police approaching the property?

 

[Eloise]

I was just reading about this. Not many details right now, but looking at some basic facts, it seems like a kamikaze.
The location is remote.
There were three suspects, with guns.
Guns are not that easy to get hold of in Australia, compared to other countries.
They continued shooting until they were shot dead by a special force team, after six hours.

The guns will be examined and any identifying numbers or codes, will help towards identifying who these people are and why they did this.
IMO, this was a kamikaze mission to take out as many as possible. JMO

ETA: Adding an amount of time for clarity.

Re BBM. I don't know anybody that lives on a rural property that doesn't have gun/s, including the most peaceful, non-violent people I can imagine. Sure, it's a long long way from walking into a department store and buying one after token paperwork like in the USA, because you need to have a reason to have a gun (self-defence not being one of them), but Australia isn't gun free the way a lot of Americans on social media seem to think we are. Hunting and pest control are very common reasons why people have and keep guns in rural and remote areas.

Information for licenses and allowed reasons to get a gun in Queensland and the evidence you need to provide for each of those reasons.

 

[SouthAussie]

.
.... police investigate whether the two murdered officers were lured to a rural property by killers with links to extremist online communities.

... investigators would look at the killers' possible extremist links after a series of posts under the name of Gareth Train were uncovered on conspiracy theory forums.

"It's very difficult at the moment for us to reason with what has happened, there are no obvious reasons," Commissioner Carroll told ABC....

Commissioner Carroll said every possible motivation for the killings was being looked at, including whether it was a premeditated attack on the officers.

Queensland siege: Shot police officer 'overwhelmed' by support after surgery

Queensland police are looking into potential extremist connections for the three people involved in killing two officers and a bystander on a rural property.

www.sbs.com.au

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

I don't know anybody that lives on a rural property that doesn't have gun/s, including the most peaceful, non-violent people I can imagine. Sure, it's a long long way from walking into a department store and buying one after token paperwork like in the USA, because you need to have a reason to have a gun (self-defence not being one of them), but Australia isn't gun free the way a lot of Americans on social media seem to think we are. Hunting and pest control are very common reasons why people have and keep guns in rural and remote areas.

Information for licenses and allowed reasons to get a gun in Queensland and the evidence you need to provide for each of those reasons.

Thank you for the clarification. I'm assuming its the same as here in Canada? No automatics, semis, assaults etc?
I'm actually from England, So I am used to very tight laws, I believed that Australia's Gun ownership laws were similar to UK and Canada, something in between.
I think the type of weapons they used here were heavy duty.
Thank you for the link.

 

[Shadow@light]

Websleuths, this region is close to my home town, if my Grandparents were alive they would be shocked and in disbelief in what has happened. I am shattered since yesterday afternoon. I have friends and family members who serve in Queensland Police Force, they are shattered. In over four years, four Queensland Police Officers have been murdered while on duty in protecting us.
All close to the Darling Downs Region, over four years ago squad was sent to a Toowoomba region over a Domestic Dispute /noise, close family friend was on Duty that day. There was no warnings of the male owner owning a Gun, shots were fired on their arrival killing a Police Officer.
Last year, Police Officer was setting up equipment on the Highway to stop a reckless driver in a stolen car which been seen used driving recklessly the last few days out Brisbane/Ipswitch. While he was setting up I believe 4am in the Morning, the Driver(has not gone to trial yet.) it is believe she drove past the Police car, turn around turn off car light, crossed the small gully, slowly drove onto the other side onto the and then hit him over the speed of 140 km per hour.
To explain country road in this area I have traveled in the past, so from my memory there is the highway lanes to Ipswitch and Brisbane, which is one way direction, two lanes and the other Highway road, two lanes heading from country road there is a small long Gully Island between these two separate Highway Road, it is a drainage precaution, as it is a flood plains.
Now this happens, my heart goes out to the neighbour ( Who in my children eyes a hero) who went to see what was happening, I believe, IMO being the season of Summer here in Australia, seeing the smoke he rushed there to prevent a bushfire, people in farming area, do get Wheat storage/hay fires and petrol/ oils in barrels is stored in metal drums when he arrived he saw police car on fire and grass fire, people on the ground got out to help which was very brave of him instead of driving the hell out of there, but locals would do that.
IMO, the Officers were set up and ambushed in a sick game of Sport, I think IMO, Mr N Train cut off his contact in October so there would be a search for him at his brother farmer he last contact people from there.
I know from the Darlings Downs strange dark stories and reports from history/ crimes from 1800's even 1990's, I wish it just stay there in the past.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/news/cop-killers-in-strange-love-triangle-as-locals-say-train-brothers-used-ice/news-story/35b2d63b454e8c964abad47a15477347

The “murderous trio” who killed two cops in cold blood were reportedly locked in a bizarre “love tryst”, as claims emerge the brothers had been taking ice.

The two brothers who were shot dead after killing two police officers and a neighbour in cold blood had reportedly been taking ice and bragging about their “fortified house” in the lead up to the horrific attack.

Now, claims have surfaced that the trio were engaged in a bizarre love triangle, with The Australian reporting Nathaniel may have been married to Stacey before she was with his brother.

One source told the publication that they were involved in a “love tryst”, with police now trying to understand the dynamic between the brothers and Stacey in the lead up to the bloodshed.

Locals have also claimed that the Train brothers had been using methamphetamine and bragging about turning Gareth and Stacey’s two-bedroom home into a sort of bunker.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Cop killers’ dad breaks silence after deadly ambush: ‘I have lost two children’

New details about two siblings and a woman involved in Monday night’s devastating shootout have been revealed.

7news.com.au

It came as new details emerged about the deadly trio, who had all previously worked for Education Queensland.

Stacey Train, who was previously married to Nathaniel, was the head of curriculum at Tara State College, 300km west of Brisbane.

She then moved in with her husband’s brother Gareth, also known as Gavin, who was a teacher’s aide and groundskeeper.

 

[LaborDayRN]

https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/news/cop-killers-in-strange-love-triangle-as-locals-say-train-brothers-used-ice/news-story/35b2d63b454e8c964abad47a15477347

The “murderous trio” who killed two cops in cold blood were reportedly locked in a bizarre “love tryst”, as claims emerge the brothers had been taking ice.

The two brothers who were shot dead after killing two police officers and a neighbour in cold blood had reportedly been taking ice and bragging about their “fortified house” in the lead up to the horrific attack.

Now, claims have surfaced that the trio were engaged in a bizarre love triangle, with The Australian reporting Nathaniel may have been married to Stacey before she was with his brother.

One source told the publication that they were involved in a “love tryst”, with police now trying to understand the dynamic between the brothers and Stacey in the lead up to the bloodshed.

Locals have also claimed that the Train brothers had been using methamphetamine and bragging about turning Gareth and Stacey’s two-bedroom home into a sort of bunker.

I had wondered about the possibility of drug use when I read about his heart attack (fairly young age) and then the insanity of this attack. Don't get me wrong, I'm not making excuses for any of them. It just crossed my mind.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Queensland shooting: Stacey Train left first husband Nathaniel to pursue relationship with his brother Gareth, relatives say

New relationship caused rift in the family, including with father who was pastor at a conservative independent church

www.theguardian.com

Queensland shooting: Stacey Train left first husband Nathaniel to pursue relationship with his brother Gareth, relatives say​

New relationship caused rift in the family, including with father who was pastor at a conservative independent church

 

[SouthAussie]

Heartbreaking. Constable McCrow begged for her life ... then they executed her and Constable Arnold.


There were multiple reports on Wednesday that the four officers arrived together at the remote property on Monday, only to find the gate locked.
They honked their car horns but there was no response, and no movement from inside the farmhouse.

According to the reports, Constables McCrow and Arnold jumped the locked fence, followed by their colleagues.
Within seconds, they were under heavy fire. The first two officers were hit, and fell to the ground.

In chilling audio revealed on Wednesday, one male officer can be heard relaying their terrifying situation to police command.

“We believe POI (person of interest) 2 may be discharging rounds. Shots fired,” the officer says.
“It appears POI 2 is attempting to reload. POI 1 potentially taken a round here. POI 1 no movement. No movement from No.2 and appears to be blood on the ground.”

Only minutes later, the Train brothers approached the two young officers lying on the ground. Constable McCrow begged for her life, but both were shot dead.

Chilling audio reveals horror of police ambush at Wieambilla

Chilling audio has emerged of the moment four young police officers were ambushed by suspected extremists at a rural Queensland property.

thenewdaily.com.au

 

[TootsieFootsie]

https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/crime/father-of-wieambilla-cop-shooters-nathaniel-and-gavin-train-speaks-out/news-story/1277c68fbb9fbbb1297c7bacbbca41b2

Father of Wieambilla cop shooters Nathaniel and Gareth Train speaks out​

 

[nhmemorymaker]

This article discusses much about the actual property where the Trains lived. ..including tunnels ?? I do wonder if this is going to break into a bigger story of these "end of world" views that Gareth seemed to be preaching.... (oh NO, not again !!)

Inside the secluded and 'fortified' home of cop killing brothers

The brothers responsible for the murders of three innocent lives had spent years turning their rural Queensland home into a makeshift bunker.

www.skynews.com.au