Australia - Siege/Ambush at Remote Property - 6 Dead Including 2 Police/Neighbor - Wieambilla (Queensland)

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SLouTh said:
From reading every source I can find, and piecing bits together….and JMO

I think Kirk and Brough were on the left side …. And Keeley is on the far left, in the body cam footage, having to dodge logs etc on the side of the driveway …. So closer to the scrub …
And the first two officers shot were on the right hand side of the driveway … (looking in from the road) … I think possibly those on the right were more in a direct line of fire to / from the hide out …. (May they RIP)

Kirk was shot at 9 times on his way to escape and was shot in the hip during his escape …. (9 shots over a distance of approx 100meters is absolutely terrifying) so they didn’t actually miss him …

I think Keeley going left, into the scrub, when Kirk yelled “get back” after the first shot, and staying low saved her life ..

Imagine also hearing this threat …..
He (Kirk) heard the two men say: “that was a mistake boys, come out, come out and get on the f---ing ground or you die”.

Especially when they have just shot your colleagues in front of you …


Reference

Click to expand...
It must have been utterly horrifying - I can't find words that would do it justice.
Officer Kirk's bodycam footage was like something out of a terrible nightmare - going from a benign chatty camaraderie with his colleagues one minute, to running for his life in the next, getting shot, and then to top it all off, the "fasten seatbelt" sound dinging loudly (as if he didn't have enough to distract him). IMO he was incredibly calm under the circumstances keeping his cool, and thinking logically.
I am unsure as to whether Officer Brough's bodycam footage has been released, but from reports of what transpired, she also made sound decisions, even though in horrifying danger (her choices - shot to death, or being burned alive) - just nine weeks into the job. I really hope these officers, and everyone involved in their rescue, get all the help they need to heal from this traumatic day. JMO
 
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jjleroche said:
It must have been utterly horrifying - I can't find words that would do it justice.
Officer Kirk's bodycam footage was like something out of a terrible nightmare - going from a benign chatty camaraderie with his colleagues one minute, to running for his life in the next, getting shot, and then to top it all off, the "fasten seatbelt" sound dinging loudly (as if he didn't have enough to distract him). IMO he was incredibly calm under the circumstances keeping his cool, and thinking logically.
I am unsure as to whether officer Keely's bodycam footage has been released, but from reports of what transpired, she also made sound decisions, even though in horrifying danger (her choices - shot to death, or being burned alive) - just nine weeks into the job. I really hope these officers, and everyone involved in their rescue, get all the help they need to heal from this traumatic day. JMO
Click to expand...
To think that Rachel and Kelly had just introduced themselves to each other after jumping the fence and heading up the drive too. It would have been just the most terrifying and drawn out experience.
I am curious about why the cars were facing the gate rather than the road too, and how Officer Kirk started the car so fast.
 
BBM

Gareth Train warned he was “waiting for the police with an eye open” after being informed officers were looking for his missing brother, with an inquest told he had an arsenal of illegal weapons hidden in a secret storage compartment on his Wieambilla bush block.

But the information was not passed on to Queensland police – and if it had been, the highly trained Specialist Emergency Response Team would have likely been sent there to look for former school principal Nathaniel Train.

An inquest into the Wieambilla shootings was told the four young officers who went to the Western Downs property that day had not been told Gareth was paranoid, hated police, had studied military tactics and had a cache of rifles but no gun licence.



It would be helpful to know who actually had this information ???? And when???

Is this what NSW Police knew???? But didn’t pass on???

——————
Edit to add : (found further info after my initial post)
It seems like it was the information that wasn’t passed on from NSW Police …..

Barrister Gavin Handran questioned whether that additional information, which was known to NSW police and some that was known to someone “close to” Gareth, would “make any difference” for how the four constables responded to the job

—————-

Or was it information gathered by police statements of locals and family etc after the event occurred?? (Hindsight is always an marvellous thing …)

Paywalled for some


Also in this free article ..
 
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Rocket333 said:
how Officer Kirk started the car so fast.
Click to expand...
I think he was very fortunate that he had the car keys in his pocket ….. (it could have been a very different outcome, if for example Keeley had the keys …)

In the video he only has to press a button to start the vehicle… I think it’s called “remote access”?? Where you just have to have the key in close proximity and the car automatically unlocks and it’s keyless to start…. Just press the button ( My car is the same set up … )

This is the clearest footage I have found … but it is paywalled …. And you can see him press the button ….

 
Next evidence to be heard at the inquest …
The coroner investigating the shooting deaths of six people at a rural Queensland property is due to hear how three cop killers "barricaded" their home against a raid by specialist police.

SNIP

Detective Senior Sergeant Nathan McCormack is due to appear before Brisbane Coroners Court on Tuesday to give evidence as part of the five-week inquest into the shootings.
McCormack was the lead investigator into the deaths of Gareth Train, his wife Stacey and brother after they barricaded themselves in their home surrounded by 100 acres of bushland following the deaths of the two constables and neighbour Alan Dare.
Coroner Terry Ryan is due to hear how the Trains placed barricades over the road into their home along with mirrors and multiple fires that were designed to blind vehicles approaching at night.

SNIP

Senior Sergeant Kirsty Gleeson is due to testify about the ballistic evidence recovered from the scene and how the Trains acquired their firearms and ammunition.
Acting Senior Sergeant Cameron Bourke is also due to give evidence about how police helicopters were used in conjunction with the SERT team when raiding the property.

www.9news.com.au

Wieambilla shooters 'barricaded' home, coroner to hear

This came ahead of the police response to the shooting deaths of two officers and a neighbour at the prope...
www.9news.com.au www.9news.com.au
 
New info from Courier Mail, paraphrased the main points …..



19 highly-trained SERT operatives arrived on scene

4 arrived by helicopter, and more in the heavily armoured BearCat vehicle.

Three light armoured vehicles also went to the scene and entered the Trains’ bush block.

He said four SERT negotiators made various attempts to secure the Trains surrender, including two who called six different mobile numbers every five minutes.

Two others travelled onto the property inside the BearCat and made attempts to speak to the trio via a loud speaker.

All attempts to negotiate with the Trains were either ignored or answered with gunfire.

Communications were an issue for the officers who responded on the day, with the black spots ..

Police helicopters were sent as “eyes in the sky” but footage was unable to be streamed to the ground.

“Several screenshots were taken of in-helicopter screens passed by (a police computer system) to officers on the ground,”

He said SERT officers also used radios that operated “direct radio-to-radio” without going through a repeater because the Trains had taken the radios of murdered officers McCrow and Arnold.

Paywalled for some

 
SLouTh said:
New info from Courier Mail, paraphrased the main points …..



19 highly-trained SERT operatives arrived on scene

4 arrived by helicopter, and more in the heavily armoured BearCat vehicle.

Three light armoured vehicles also went to the scene and entered the Trains’ bush block.

He said four SERT negotiators made various attempts to secure the Trains surrender, including two who called six different mobile numbers every five minutes.

Two others travelled onto the property inside the BearCat and made attempts to speak to the trio via a loud speaker.

All attempts to negotiate with the Trains were either ignored or answered with gunfire.

Communications were an issue for the officers who responded on the day, with the black spots ..

Police helicopters were sent as “eyes in the sky” but footage was unable to be streamed to the ground.

“Several screenshots were taken of in-helicopter screens passed by (a police computer system) to officers on the ground,”

He said SERT officers also used radios that operated “direct radio-to-radio” without going through a repeater because the Trains had taken the radios of murdered officers McCrow and Arnold.

Paywalled for some

Click to expand...

A bit more from the article, paraphrased

A large log and metal barricade was placed on the driveway, just over 100m from the house which impeded police driving closer.

The barricade was on a corner of the driveway and said it was blind for the people coming from around the tree line but there was a clearer view from the house to it.

Gareth shone a roof mounting hunting light at the BearCat

Mirrors placed just after the barricade also hindered the view of the SERT operative trying to drive up closer to the house.

Garath & Nathaniel had protection from large logs that were “extremely bullet resistant”
Train's bought the property in 2015

Police used satellite images that showed barricades, sniper hides and mirrors were in place in October - two months before the shootings.

They were not in place in 2018 images.

Police weren't able to obtain may images due to it's remoteness.
 
There is a new episode of The Ultimate Sacrifice podcast by Chanel out ..
“The Extraction Team” is the latest episode… (Wherever you usually listen to podcasts it is available)

Definitely worth a listen …. !!!! And it includes many great details about the extraction, and exact timeline information …
And those Police men and women were truely hero’s!!!

Also an interesting point to note …

Local Police had to borrow rifles from local station owners and pick them up on the way to the scene….
A great example of how small rural towns people and local Police usually pull together in a crisis …

IMO

www.9now.com.au

Watch The Ultimate Sacrifice Season 1, Catch Up TV

Four young officers ambushed; two escaped, two executed in cold blood, an innocent neighbour murdered. How did a routine callout turn into Queensland’s deadliest police shooting?
www.9now.com.au www.9now.com.au

I hope Chanel 9 keep the episodes coming regularly as the inquest progresses ….
 
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A barricade and sniper positions had been set up at a remote Queensland property months before two police officers were shot dead in an ambush, a coroner has heard.

Snip

Detective Senior Sergeant Nathan McCormack told Brisbane Coroners Court on Tuesday that three firing positions had been set up on the property which featured 100 acres of bushland.
Mirrors were placed along the driveway, with SERT members complaining that reflections hampered their vision as they drove toward the home at night, Det Sen Sgt McCormack said.

Snip

The property's remote location also created obstacles.
Mobile network problems in the Wieambilla area ensured that police helicopters - SERT's "eyes in the sky" - were unable to stream footage of the shooters.
Instead screenshots of TV monitors were sent via the police computer system to SERT members on the ground to help locate the Trains.
Det Sen Sgt McCormack said negotiators had tried to contact the Trains on their mobile phones on the night before they tried to communicate via the BearCat's loudspeaker.
"The only communication was that YouTube video 'don't be afraid'," he told the inquest.
"I never observed any actions by Gareth, Stacey or Nathaniel in a surrendering manner or any attempts to communicate with SERT operatives."


And lots more here …

www.canberratimes.com.au

Wieambilla property barricaded for months, inquest told

A coroner has heard a barricade and sniper spots had been set up at a remote Queensland property...
www.canberratimes.com.au www.canberratimes.com.au
 
Another new article

Detective Senior Sergeant McCormack told the inquest the fires the Trains lit hindered the efforts of Special Emergency Response Teams (SERT).

"The fires commenced at the area between the house — termed as a stronghold in my report. The fires were lit in a horseshoe around the house, providing a tactical advantage to the Trains," he told the inquest.

"You could only approach via the road, hampering the operatives from moving forward due to smoke, and the fire was glowing on PolAir footage, making it difficult."
Detective Senior Sergeant McCormack told the inquest the measures also affected the progress of an armoured Bearcat police vehicle.

"The barricade stopped the Bearcat moving forward, which enabled the engagement of Gareth and Nathaniel," he said.

www.abc.net.au

Gun firing positions and barricades built months before deadly Wieambilla police shooting, inquest hears

A senior officer described the extremists' property where three people were killed as a "stronghold", an inquest has heard.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
 
From an updated Courier Mail article paraphrased

The driveway was 339 meters to the front gate of the house yard area which was also fenced.

116 NON POLICE CARTRIDGES FOUND​

The inquest was told there were 84 QPS discharged cartridge cases found at the scene.

Of the 84, 22 were fired from Glocks which included 15 from Constable McCrow and one from Constable Kirk.
There were also an additional six cartridge cases found in the L-shaped log barricade after Nathaniel Train fired Constable Arnold’s Glock at specialist police.

The inquest was told there were 62 cartridges from SERT operatives found.

There were 116 discharged cartridge cases fired by non-QPS firearms however Sen Sgt Gleeson it was not possible to say if all were fired that night.

The BearCat had 16 points of damage caused by the impact of 18 bullet or bullet fragments.

Projectiles were found in its grill, front passenger tyre and front differential casing.

Another light-armoured vehicle had damage from eight bullet or bullet fragments.

 
It would appear that the Trains had 52 minutes of opportunity to surrender …. But instead were firing at the SERT Team and PolAir …

Det Sen Sgt McCormack said things changed at 10.04pm when a SERT officer returned fire, hitting a water tank where Gareth was standing with a single shot.

He agreed this shot came 52 minutes after the first shots were fired at the BearCat.

From the above linked article.
 
SLouTh said:
It would appear that the Trains had 52 minutes of opportunity to surrender …. But instead were firing at the SERT Team and PolAir …

Det Sen Sgt McCormack said things changed at 10.04pm when a SERT officer returned fire, hitting a water tank where Gareth was standing with a single shot.

He agreed this shot came 52 minutes after the first shots were fired at the BearCat.

From the above linked article.
Click to expand...
They were NEVER going to surrender.

This could have been sooo much worse.

The podcast is well worth listening too. I've started from the 1st episode.

Things I was not aware of :

Rachel & Matthew were housemates.

It was Mathew's second last shift, he was going to the Child Protection Unit in Brisbane after his next shift & was all packed ready to go with his dog Tanner

:(:(
 
www.theguardian.com

Radicalised killers used military-style defences to force police retreat during Wieambilla siege

Train family laid series of ‘tactically sound’ obstacles to gain advantage in shootout, coronial inquest hears
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

1722927717473.jpeg

After the BearCat’s first retreat, Gareth Train was observed being “active and walking around”.

“It appeared to me that he was never expecting return fire at that time,” McCormack said.

“He had a rifle in his hands and he was scanning towards his back side.”

About 10pm, a Sert operative shot at Gareth and missed, McCormack told the court. The bullet hit a nearby water tank. Afterwards, Gareth moved behind a tree and lay on his stomach.

The BearCat attempted a second approach about 10.05pm but was forced to retreat back into the tree line again. The shooters continued to fire into the scrub and a minute later the BearCat reported that it was “taking rounds”.

At 10.29pm the BearCat made a final approach to the house, over the barricade. Within 12 minutes, Gareth, Stacey and Nathaniel Train were each shot and killed.

Gareth was shot through the top of the head at 10.32pm.

At 10.36pm Stacey re-emerged from the house and fired a weapon in the direction of the BearCat. She was shot through the head.

Nathaniel was shot in the torso and the face about 10.39pm. In the minutes prior, his rifle appeared to jam and he grabbed the Glock pistol, taken from constable Matthew Arnold, to continue firing.

McCormack said Sert teams had secured the house by 10.41pm.
 
drsleuth said:
They were NEVER going to surrender.

This could have been sooo much worse.

The podcast is well worth listening too. I've started from the 1st episode.

Things I was not aware of :

Rachel & Matthew were housemates.

It was Mathew's second last shift, he was going to the Child Protection Unit in Brisbane after his next shift & was all packed ready to go with his dog Tanner

:(:(
Click to expand...
Yes I think the podcast is excellent and have also listened from the beginning ….. So many extra details! I keep checking for new episodes!

Yes,, those little details so poignant …..and so sad…. Like poor Officer Gates who ultimately rescued his training pupils….. Both Matt and Rachel
Just devastating!!
 
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