SLouTh
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Australia - Siege/Ambush at Remote Property - 6 Dead Including 2 Police/Neighbor - Wieambilla (Queensland)
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SLouTh
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A family of killers were “robotic” in response to efforts to get them to surrender, continuing to fire at police vehicles, an inquest into the Wieambilla massacre has heard.
Sert operative 114, a team leader of the police Special Emergency Response Team (Sert), described how an armoured BearCat vehicle was “rocked” as a volley of accurate gunfire hit the windscreen, which was bullet resistant but not bulletproof.
Most of the bullets hit on the left hand side of the windscreen, towards the driver.
Snip
It’s a nearly 9.5 tonne car; it rocked,” he said. “I’d never experienced that before, the magnitude of the calibre that we were dealing with.”
The inquest has earlier heard the Trains were armed with a .308 Winchester and a 30-06 Springfield rifle. Both high-calibre weapons were scoped, and operative 114 said they were able to fire them accurately at police.
Snip
It’s nothing I’ve ever seen where they were just in a sort of robotic … no gestures, didn’t wave out, didn’t yell anything out, just went about placing themselves in suitable positions to give lethal gunfire towards us,” he said.
The court yesterday heard audio of the last moments of the firefight, as police continued to try to negotiate with the final survivor, Nathaniel Train. Stacey and Gareth Train were killed by headshots from Sert operatives.
Snip
Operative 114 described watching the man set down his rifle and grab a police-issued Glock pistol taken from the body of one of the dead officers earlier that day. He had taken cover behind a log barricade at the front of the property.
“It was like his last stand as he stood up to fire the Glock where he was ultimately engaged,” Operative 114 testified.
None of the Sert operatives can be identified for legal reasons.
The inquest continues.
More here
www.theguardian.com
Sert operative 114, a team leader of the police Special Emergency Response Team (Sert), described how an armoured BearCat vehicle was “rocked” as a volley of accurate gunfire hit the windscreen, which was bullet resistant but not bulletproof.
Most of the bullets hit on the left hand side of the windscreen, towards the driver.
Snip
It’s a nearly 9.5 tonne car; it rocked,” he said. “I’d never experienced that before, the magnitude of the calibre that we were dealing with.”
The inquest has earlier heard the Trains were armed with a .308 Winchester and a 30-06 Springfield rifle. Both high-calibre weapons were scoped, and operative 114 said they were able to fire them accurately at police.
Snip
It’s nothing I’ve ever seen where they were just in a sort of robotic … no gestures, didn’t wave out, didn’t yell anything out, just went about placing themselves in suitable positions to give lethal gunfire towards us,” he said.
The court yesterday heard audio of the last moments of the firefight, as police continued to try to negotiate with the final survivor, Nathaniel Train. Stacey and Gareth Train were killed by headshots from Sert operatives.
Snip
Operative 114 described watching the man set down his rifle and grab a police-issued Glock pistol taken from the body of one of the dead officers earlier that day. He had taken cover behind a log barricade at the front of the property.
“It was like his last stand as he stood up to fire the Glock where he was ultimately engaged,” Operative 114 testified.
None of the Sert operatives can be identified for legal reasons.
The inquest continues.
More here
Wieambilla killers ‘rocked’ police vehicle with bullets in response to surrender pleas, inquest hears
The Trains used high-calibre guns to engage in firefight as police tried to negotiate, responder tells coroner
drsleuth
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Wieambilla inquest: SERT officer shares insight into final moments before Train family killed
A specialist police officer has recalled the moment an armoured police vehicle was forced to retreat after a ‘volley of gunfire’ during a siege.The inquest was told Gareth was killed moments before Stacey was fatally shot in the head by a sniper in the BearCat.
“I felt Gareth Train was certainly (deceased), his movement from Polair (communication) was minimal,” the operative said.
“The gun released from (Stacey’s) hands and she fell down the staircase and didn’t move.
“There was still movement from Nathaniel (positioned) behind the log or couch.”
The operative said Nathaniel was again urged to put his weapons down by negotiators before he opened fire on the BearCat, firing Constable Arnold’s Glock at the windscreen.
“The negotiations continued the whole time for him to surrender and then he was sort of all in a ball behind the log,” the operative said.
“It was like his last stand as he stood up to fire the Glock when he was ultimately engaged."
The trio were killed within minutes of each other.
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SLouTh
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The inquest is set to continue on Monday.
www.9news.com.au
Wonder if they are having tomorrow off or if it is actually closed court on Friday??? (For the SERT operational information ??? )
Volley of gunfire rocked heavily armoured cop vehicle during Wieambilla shooting
A nine-and-a-half tonne heavily armoured vehicle rocked when a volley of gunshots were fired at the windscr...
www.9news.com.au
Wonder if they are having tomorrow off or if it is actually closed court on Friday??? (For the SERT operational information ??? )
drsleuth
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I don't know why, but I've found that Coroners Court often doesn't sit on Fridays, especially in long running inquests. My experience has been NSW coroners court thou.The inquest is set to continue on Monday.
Volley of gunfire rocked heavily armoured cop vehicle during Wieambilla shooting
A nine-and-a-half tonne heavily armoured vehicle rocked when a volley of gunshots were fired at the windscr...
Wonder if they are having tomorrow off or if it is actually closed court on Friday??? (For the SERT operational information ??? )
drsleuth
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Wieambilla killers ‘rocked’ police vehicle with bullets in response to surrender pleas, inquest hears
The Trains used high-calibre guns to engage in firefight as police tried to negotiate, responder tells coroner
Sert operative 114, a team leader of the police Special Emergency Response Team (Sert), described how an armoured BearCat vehicle was “rocked” as a volley of accurate gunfire hit the windscreen, which was bullet resistant but not bulletproof.
Operative 114 said the Sert police knew the windscreen was not bulletproof. If it had broken, police would have been injured or killed, he said.
“The laminate certainly was bulging on the inside,” he said.
snip
A Sert sniper, identified as operative 201, also testified on Thursday that he shot both Stacey and Gareth during the final confrontation.
He was travelling in a police light armoured vehicle that came under fire from the Trains.
“The vehicle is quite a few tonne in weight; those rounds were hitting and were actually moving the vehicle,” he said.
“With the calibre of the weapon that they had, it packed quite a punch … when they were hitting on the window and windscreen, inside the vehicle you could feel the percussion I suppose or the effects of that round hitting the glass.”
Think this is the one they used?
Queensland Police SERT Lenco Bearcat G3 review
It’s fair to say that as regular law-abiding citizens, our contact with the police is usually limited to when we’ve been caught going (a little) over the speed limit either by a mobile speed camera, a police motorbike or patrol car. So, it’s somewhat surprising to realise what automotive...
BBM : I'm surprised that the windshield are not bullet proof, but bullet resistant. Is there such a thing as bullet proof in these??
Seems in March 2022 QLD police purchased a armoured vehicle for the Queensland Police Service Explosive Ordnance Response Team (EORT) for $600 000
“The Bombcat has been designed specifically to support EORT operational requirements but is also able to fully support interoperability with both Negotiator and Special Emergency Response Team requirements, during high risk incidents,” Commissioner Stewart said.
“These operations can include tasks where explosive devices, as well as firearms are present.
“At seven metres long, two and a half metres wide and three metres high, this machine means serious business.”
QPS launch new EORT armoured vehicle - Queensland Police News
Minister for Police Mark Ryan and Commissioner Ian Stewart today announced the arrival of a new armoured vehicle for the Queensland Police Service
Seems like this new Bombcat wasn't used & I wonder why?
Last edited:
Wieambilla killers ‘rocked’ police vehicle with bullets in response to surrender pleas, inquest hears
The Trains used high-calibre guns to engage in firefight as police tried to negotiate, responder tells coroner
Sert operative 114, a team leader of the police Special Emergency Response Team (Sert), described how an armoured BearCat vehicle was “rocked” as a volley of accurate gunfire hit the windscreen, which was bullet resistant but not bulletproof.
Operative 114 said the Sert police knew the windscreen was not bulletproof. If it had broken, police would have been injured or killed, he said.
“The laminate certainly was bulging on the inside,” he said.
snip
A Sert sniper, identified as operative 201, also testified on Thursday that he shot both Stacey and Gareth during the final confrontation.
He was travelling in a police light armoured vehicle that came under fire from the Trains.
“The vehicle is quite a few tonne in weight; those rounds were hitting and were actually moving the vehicle,” he said.
“With the calibre of the weapon that they had, it packed quite a punch … when they were hitting on the window and windscreen, inside the vehicle you could feel the percussion I suppose or the effects of that round hitting the glass.”
BBM : I'm surprised that the windshield are not bullet proof, but bullet resistant. Is there such a thing as bullet proof in these??
Seems in March 2022 QLD police purchased a armoured vehicle for the Queensland Police Service Explosive Ordnance Response Team (EORT) for $600 000
“The Bombcat has been designed specifically to support EORT operational requirements but is also able to fully support interoperability with both Negotiator and Special Emergency Response Team requirements, during high risk incidents,” Commissioner Stewart said.
“These operations can include tasks where explosive devices, as well as firearms are present.
“At seven metres long, two and a half metres wide and three metres high, this machine means serious business.”
QPS launch new EORT armoured vehicle - Queensland Police News
Minister for Police Mark Ryan and Commissioner Ian Stewart today announced the arrival of a new armoured vehicle for the Queensland Police Servicemypolice.qld.gov.au
Seems like this new Bombcat wasn't used & I wonder why?
Might have been deployed already. Or in for servicing.
Very surprised the windshield on the BearCat isn’t more bullet resistant. Having looked at the firearms in the photos published to date they’re all .30 calibre + I didn’t see anything there that was greater than that.
Very common calibre weapons and at 100 meters devastating. Surely this is part of the review. Very hard to understand from the outside that this isn’t a factor in a BearCat’s protection.
SLouTh
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:Maybe the top speed in the Bearcat is greater??? Faster to get to the Western Downs area from Brisbane, than the Bombcat??
Your article above links the engine specifics for the Bearcat …
The Bearcat is powered by a 6.2-litre turbo-diesel V8 engine with 287kW and 583Nm of torque. That’s not an awful lot compared to some modern diesel engines, but the purpose of the Bearcat is to be reliable rather than fast necessarily. The engine is mated to a six-speed automatic transmission and the vehicle is left-hand drive and legally requires at least two people in the vehicle to operate unless under extreme conditions.
Just wondering if the Bombcat may be heavier and slower due to it being more purpose built for bombs???
JMO
SLouTh
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The unlicensed firearms that were mentioned in court this week, that Gareth had were an access to, were a Ruger carbine and a Mauser action firearm ….
Are these also classified at 0.308 or larger, do you know??? Or do they take the same ammunition, and just have a faster action ???
drsleuth
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BearCat
Queensland Police SERT Lenco Bearcat G3 review
It’s fair to say that as regular law-abiding citizens, our contact with the police is usually limited to when we’ve been caught going (a little) over the speed limit either by a mobile speed camera, a police motorbike or patrol car. So, it’s somewhat surprising to realise what automotive...
New Qld Police EORT Bombcat is super cool
New Qld Police EORT Bombcat is super cool. Great job Peter Henderson and the EORT team. Minister for Police Mark Ryan and Commissioner Ian Stewart
www.epequip.com
“The Queensland Police currently have two armoured vehicles, known as Bearcats, however our new Bombcat is like the big brother to our existing Bearcats – it’s bigger, stronger and will offer our police an extra level of protection.
“The Bombcat was purpose built to meet the needs of the Queensland Police Service and uses leading edge technology to protect officers and the community from explosives threats.”
from QPS Media on Mar 22, 2017 @ 2:54pm
While the BOMBCAT is road ready, the bullet resistant vehicle is unlikely to be seen on your street any time soon.
Ah so maybe it's not operational yet?
Also found this , so seems they are really beefing up their sert guys!
New ‘Bomb Robots’ boost Queensland Police Service safety response capability - Sunshine Coast
The Queensland Police Service (QPS) has significantly upgraded its explosive ordnance response capabilities by introducing five new Remote Positioning
New ‘Bomb Robots’ boost Queensland Police Service safety response capability
QPS Media on Aug 2, 2024 @ 1:34pm
They looked like .308 to me. Basically hunting rifles. Maybe 30-06 for the older looking rifle if that’s the “Mauser action” being referred to. Couldn’t tell one of them that was cammed up but doubt it was 300 wmg. I just don’t see them mixing their ammunition up as much as that they’d want to keep it consistent.
The listing of a Ruger Carbine is interesting though. That could mean anything literally. Semi-autos were legal before the amnesty for example so if they had some illegal firearms that could be what they’re referencing. Total speculation though.
When it comes to “Mauser action” this is an extremely reliable bolt action still in use today. They might just be referring to having an illegal bolt action rifle ie not registered etc.
drsleuth
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The inquest has earlier heard the Trains were armed with a .308 Winchester and a 30-06 Springfield rifle. Both high-calibre weapons were scoped, and operative 114 said they were able to fire them accurately at police.
snip
Det Sgt Terrance Fergusson, a Queensland police firearms expert, told the court most of the weapons possessed by the Trains were common and could be legally obtained.
The 30-06 and .308 bullets fired at police in the BearCat are “probably some of the most common chamberings you’d expect to find in Australia,” he said.
“It’s all commercially available ammunition, you could buy it at most gunshops”.
Wieambilla killers ‘rocked’ police vehicle with bullets in response to surrender pleas, inquest hears
The Trains used high-calibre guns to engage in firefight as police tried to negotiate, responder tells coroner
PS I know nothing about guns
SLouTh
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If they had known what they were in for, with the massive gunfire war, they may have wished in hindsight that they had chosen the Bombcat???BearCat
View attachment 523202
Queensland Police SERT Lenco Bearcat G3 review
It’s fair to say that as regular law-abiding citizens, our contact with the police is usually limited to when we’ve been caught going (a little) over the speed limit either by a mobile speed camera, a police motorbike or patrol car. So, it’s somewhat surprising to realise what automotive...www.drive.com.au
New Qld Police EORT Bombcat is super cool
New Qld Police EORT Bombcat is super cool. Great job Peter Henderson and the EORT team. Minister for Police Mark Ryan and Commissioner Ian Stewart
“The Queensland Police currently have two armoured vehicles, known as Bearcats, however our new Bombcat is like the big brother to our existing Bearcats – it’s bigger, stronger and will offer our police an extra level of protection.
“The Bombcat was purpose built to meet the needs of the Queensland Police Service and uses leading edge technology to protect officers and the community from explosives threats.”
from QPS Media on Mar 22, 2017 @ 2:54pm
While the BOMBCAT is road ready, the bullet resistant vehicle is unlikely to be seen on your street any time soon.
Ah so maybe it's not operational yet?
Also found this , so seems they are really beefing up their sert guys!
New ‘Bomb Robots’ boost Queensland Police Service safety response capability - Sunshine Coast
The Queensland Police Service (QPS) has significantly upgraded its explosive ordnance response capabilities by introducing five new Remote Positioning
New ‘Bomb Robots’ boost Queensland Police Service safety response capability
QPS Media on Aug 2, 2024 @ 1:34pm
From today’s court testimony the SERT operatives seemed surprised at-the force of the gun-power hitting the Bearcat vehicle …
IMO
SLouTh
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Thanks for that info … appreciate it.
The inquest has earlier heard the Trains were armed with a .308 Winchester and a 30-06 Springfield rifle. Both high-calibre weapons were scoped, and operative 114 said they were able to fire them accurately at police.
snip
Det Sgt Terrance Fergusson, a Queensland police firearms expert, told the court most of the weapons possessed by the Trains were common and could be legally obtained.
The 30-06 and .308 bullets fired at police in the BearCat are “probably some of the most common chamberings you’d expect to find in Australia,” he said.
“It’s all commercially available ammunition, you could buy it at most gunshops”.
Wieambilla killers ‘rocked’ police vehicle with bullets in response to surrender pleas, inquest hears
The Trains used high-calibre guns to engage in firefight as police tried to negotiate, responder tells coroner
PS I know nothing about guns
There you go. Apart from the two illegal weapons they had everything else was legally acquired.
It’s a very good question. Or why the BearCat couldn’t handle that calibre of firearm given how common it is
drsleuth
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Probably a really stupid question , but did they have to reload after every shot? Is that whey at the end Nathaniel grabbed the police glock as he didn't have time to reload as the police had already killed Gareth & Stacey
, but did they have to reload after every shot? Is that whey at the end Nathaniel grabbed the police glock as he didn't have time to reload as the police had already killed Gareth & Stacey
drsleuth
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I was reading an article that sort of described the levels of bullet resistance & the testing was done on 3 shots, maybe just sooo may shots were fired?
Bullet Proof Windows | Bullet Resistant Windows Australia
Australian Fire Control manufacture bullet proof windows to provide the most durable protection against ballistic threats. These Bullet Resistant Glass is tested, and certified to Australian Standards.
www.australianfirecontrol.com.au
Categories available:
Bullet resistance: Glass is classified as bullet-resistant (BR 1 to BR 7) when it stops the penetration of projectiles in accordance with EN 1063. The testing procedure requires that the test specimen be shot at 3 times with the appropriate weapon and calibre bullet. The test specimen must withstand the attack. The test not only determines the resistance class but also whether or not there has been splintering on the inner face.
Probably a really stupid question
Not stupid at all. They’re bolt action rifles which means after each round is fired the bolt needs to be recycled and and a new round chambered.
Usually there’s a magazine type feed either through the bottom of the rifle or for older riles through the top. In Australia typically magazines are limited to 5 rounds.
Unless you have pre-prepared magazines or can load through the top of the rifle rapidly the rate of fire will drop. I’m completely speculating but it looked like from one of the photos the police were able to deploy two operators very close to NT. I’m assuming he couldn’t use the rifle most effectively given this and went for the glock.
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