Australia - Siege/Ambush at Remote Property - 6 Dead Including 2 Police/Neighbor - Wieambilla (Queensland)

[drsleuth]

Not stupid at all. They’re bolt action rifles which means after each round is fired the bolt needs to be recycled and and a new round chambered.

Usually there’s a magazine type feed either through the bottom of the rifle or for older riles through the top. In Australia typically magazines are limited to 5 rounds.

Unless you have pre-prepared magazines or can load through the top of the rifle rapidly the rate of fire will drop. I’m completely speculating but it looked like from one of the photos the police were able to deploy two operators very close to NT. I’m assuming he couldn’t use the rifle most effectively given this and went for the glock.

Thanks, makes sense.

I listened to sooooo much testimony at the Lindt Siege inquest about ballistics, guns, bullets, projectory, 233 , MP4 , UMP , under penetration....over penetration...ballistic gel...retained weight...bullet expansion...velocity..ballistic gel...bonded rounds......

Eg Who knew that a 14.5 inch modified M4 carbine assault rifle - .223 calibre soft point rounds with 7:1 barrell twist fires @ a velocity of 2816 feet/sec????

I tried really hard to understand, but they may as well have been talking in another language!

 

[Rocket333]

Probably a really stupid question , but did they have to reload after every shot? Is that whey at the end Nathaniel grabbed the police glock as he didn't have time to reload as the police had already killed Gareth & Stacey

I read somewhere I can’t find that his rifle jammed or something and he grabbed the glock and stood up. Did he know the others were dead and he decided to end it by standing up and being shot? I didn’t realise Stacey fell down the steps after being shot. In many of the images of the front of the house afterwards, there’s a section at the bottom of the steps that’s blurred.

Did they decide to fight to the end rather than flee? Did they realise how close they were to smashing the Bearcat windscreen?

 

[SLouTh]

Did he know the others were dead and he decided to end it by standing up and being shot?

JMO …. But I think this option… he tried to go out in a “blaze of glory”

If he had surrendered at that stage, he would have gone down for everything on his own …. But JMO

Did they decide to fight to the end rather than flee? Did they realise how close they were to smashing the Bearcat windscreen?

By the number of shots grouped together in that drivers side front windscreen, I wonder if he knew it would be close to smashing??? With it being weakened by the number of shots in such a close proximity …???

Even SERT said that “he can shoot” … meaning he was shooting quite well … iMO …

All IMO

 

[Sir_Loin]

Thanks, makes sense.

I listened to sooooo much testimony at the Lindt Siege inquest about ballistics, guns, bullets, projectory, 233 , MP4 , UMP , under penetration....over penetration...ballistic gel...retained weight...bullet expansion...velocity..ballistic gel...bonded rounds......

Eg Who knew that a 14.5 inch modified M4 carbine assault rifle - .223 calibre soft point rounds with 7:1 barrell twist fires @ a velocity of 2816 feet/sec????

I tried really hard to understand, but they may as well have been talking in another language!

Sounds like you’ve got the hang of it!

 

[Sir_Loin]

JMO …. But I think this option… he tried to go out in a “blaze of glory”

If he had surrendered at that stage, he would have gone down for everything on his own …. But JMO

By the number of shots grouped together in that drivers side front windscreen, I wonder if he knew it would be close to smashing??? With it being weakened by the number of shots in such a close proximity …???

Even SERT said that “he can shoot” … meaning he was shooting quite well … iMO …

All IMO

That’s what I took from it also. Did either of them have any ADF training?

From the photos released they didn’t necessarily have top notch gear but had some pretty decent stuff. Saw a spotting scope in there.

IMHO given their religious beliefs they had no intention of giving up. They went out the way they wanted to. Which is a shame.

 

[SLouTh]

Did either of them have any ADF training?

Good question …

I don’t believe so … but I have read this week, that the SERT Commander (Superintendent Tim Partridge) contacted the Military on the way to Wieambilla, to check on that information specifically.

The article stated that he travelled with 2 intel officers, and were running history and intel checks like that along the way …

There was also evidence that the Train’s practiced “target practice” with makeshift cardboard cutouts …

 

[Rocket333]

There was also all the weapons Nathaniel dumped in the creek whilst crossing the Qld border. Thankfully he didn’t get them back.

“He said that among the items Train had ditched in the creek were at least three firearms – "short scrub sort of weapons" and ammunition. He said the firearms were retrieved from the water and found to be loaded. He said he contacted police about the weapons and they were eventually taken away. They were short-range weapons,'' he said. There was also a lot of hunting gear, camo gear and there was a bow and a target for shooting things.”

Nathaniel Train breached Queensland border carrying weapons months after school resignation

A Queensland farmer recalls a "sketchy" encounter with police shooter Nathaniel Train when he broke through the Queensland-NSW border gate and dumped weapons into a creek in December last year.

www.abc.net.au