Australia- Two sisters in their 20s found dead inside Sydney unit had been there lengthy time, Suspicious deaths, June 2022

[Charlot123]

I believe we’ll never know. I think, suicide by “dry” self-starvation once they were cut off the source of money is not impossible and could explain different rooms. But essentially, it may not matter that much. They are dead, cremated and sent back. The goal is to decide how to prevent it in the future.

See, if they were abducted to SA, it would have been one thing. But they died in Australia. So two young, beautiful women came to another country. They had enough strength to escape SA, and I assume they knew English, but nothing else about survival. They came from the country where the decisions had been made for them by men, they were very quiet, immature and depended on their home country’s source of income.

Essentially, they had to be taught how to live in a new world, to find a place on a budget, to work, to protect themselves. Probably the resources of any community are limited. I don’t know these sisters’ concrete situation, but in general, two young women can become an asset to any society.

It is sad that so many of them fall through the same cracks.

 

[branmuffin]

I believe we’ll never know. I think, suicide by “dry” self-starvation once they were cut off the source of money is not impossible and could explain different rooms. But essentially, it may not matter that much. They are dead, cremated and sent back. The goal is to decide how to prevent it in the future.

See, if they were abducted to SA, it would have been one thing. But they died in Australia. So two young, beautiful women came to another country. They had enough strength to escape SA, and I assume they knew English, but nothing else about survival. They came from the country where the decisions had been made for them by men, they were very quiet, immature and depended on their home country’s source of income.

Essentially, they had to be taught how to live in a new world, to find a place on a budget, to work, to protect themselves. Probably the resources of any community are limited. I don’t know these sisters’ concrete situation, but in general, two young women can become an asset to any society.

It is sad that so many of them fall through the same cracks.

I don't think they were immature at all. I think it took incredible strength of purpose to travel to a country thousands of miles and time changes away to live their authentic selves. Knowing full well that their actions would put them in the crosshairs of a religion that does not believe in women living an independent life. It was courageous of them to do that and even more daring that they probably did a lot of their research as to where they would end up right under the noses of their family members. I can't even imagine the stress and danger they were in until they actually left. Then on arrival they contacted the people who would provide them with training and jobs which they fully embraced after probably living a life of luxury in SA although one as a caged pet.

It would be unfair to classify these women as immature and incapable of living in a society not bound by the laws in their own country. If I had to suggest a fatal aspect of their defection was accepting family money for day to day expenses which opened the window to track them, knowing their location, their apartment, their jobs, and their contacts which allowed some malign force, perhaps one in the role of an boyfriend, who was nothing more than a bounty hunter whose mission was, find them and bring them back alive or leave them there dead.

There's been a lot of discussion about their frames of mind and erratic behavior which has been labeled as paranoia but anxiety can also create the same effect. Paranoia can have no basis in reality whereas anxiety can be based on real threats. When you have escaped a prison where someone is always going to be looking for you, and you consider yourself a 'nail' then every person may seem like a 'hammer' like the man who came to fix the plumbing.

There's a lot of cases here on WS that I think are death by misadventure like Caleb Harris and Riley Strain that other people think are suspicious, but for me, this ain't one of them.

 

[Charlot123]

I don't think they were immature at all. I think it took incredible strength of purpose to travel to a country thousands of miles and time changes away to live their authentic selves. Knowing full well that their actions would put them in the crosshairs of a religion that does not believe in women living an independent life. It was courageous of them to do that and even more daring that they probably did a lot of their research as to where they would end up right under the noses of their family members. I can't even imagine the stress and danger they were in until they actually left. Then on arrival they contacted the people who would provide them with training and jobs which they fully embraced after probably living a life of luxury in SA although one as a caged pet.

It would be unfair to classify these women as immature and incapable of living in a society not bound by the laws in their own country. If I had to suggest a fatal aspect of their defection was accepting family money for day to day expenses which opened the window to track them, knowing their location, their apartment, their jobs, and their contacts which allowed some malign force, perhaps one in the role of an boyfriend, who was nothing more than a bounty hunter whose mission was, find them and bring them back alive or leave them there dead.

There's been a lot of discussion about their frames of mind and erratic behavior which has been labeled as paranoia but anxiety can also create the same effect. Paranoia can have no basis in reality whereas anxiety can be based on real threats. When you have escaped a prison where someone is always going to be looking for you, and you consider yourself a 'nail' then every person may seem like a 'hammer' like the man who came to fix the plumbing.

There's a lot of cases here on WS that I think are death by misadventure like Caleb Harris and Riley Strain that other people think are suspicious, but for me, this ain't one of them.

So you think they were traced? I am 50/50. They seemed to have been on to a good start, but didn't appear to find a solid support group. It is hard to tell what they were as there are too few real witnesses who knew them well, it seems.

So, your guess is as good as mine. They could have had a good reason to be afraid. Alternatively, they could have been paranoid. It is even possible that it was the case of "folie a deux", when one sister was paranoid and the other one, not at all, but shared the sister's delusions due to being together all the time. We'll never ever know. I have a feeling that had they continued to get financial help, they'd eventually would find a support group, but sadly, it had stopped.

Sometimes I think, what do I even know? One of the best things in any religious community is charity. In Islam it is especially Sadaqah which is non-obligatory and not tied to religion per se. The Big Three, in general, emphasize charity, and maybe the girls expected that someone would notice that they needed help? Our Western world is somewhat different in that you need to proactively tell people that you are in need, and then, of course, help will come. So maybe, this cultural difference played a role? The girls were too shy to ask for help but expected that someone would have noticed, as back home, people were more attentive in that regard?

What do people think?

 

[Rita7]

IMOHO: In order to clarify the mode of death in this particular case (which apparently looks like an equivocal one), investigation should provide postmortem psychiatric and psychological evaluation (or psychological autopsy-PA). But unfortunately, that would never happen; therefore, we will never know the truth, and the tragic end of life of two sweet sisters will remain unsolved.

 

[dotr]

One of the oddest thing about the deaths in this particular case, is that the two young, attractive sisters would each apparently commit suicide whilst nude.
Are they making a 'last' statement of some kind (opposition to cultural dictate to cover up), or maybe even trying to recreate a Muslim style burial (bodies naked & shrouded), with the bed sheets?
rbbm speculation, imo.

Naked Suicide

Suicide attempts and completions by individuals while naked remain unexplored, both by clinicians and in the professional literature. Nakedness at the time of the incident conveys important information about an individual's mental state. Motivations for attempting or completing suicide while...

jaapl.org

Robert I. Simon Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law Online June 2008,

''Little is known about the reasons why individuals attempt or complete suicide while naked. Suicide notes rarely indicate a reason for a naked suicide. Knowledge gained from the treatment of patients, however, can shed light on the motivation for naked suicide. As mentioned earlier, individuals who have made suicide attempts while naked are the best source of information. Table 1 lists some psychological themes that may be associated with naked suicide.''

Is It Common For Women To Commit Suicide In The Nude? | Oxygen Official Site

Learn more about the death of Rebecca Zahau, who, like Marilyn Monroe, was suspected to have committed suicide while in the nude.

www.oxygen.com

''In his 2008 paper “Naked Suicide,” published in the Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law, he offered some insight into what could be behind someone’s decision to end their life while naked.

When it comes to women, Simon noted, naked suicide is considered exceptionally rare, due to the popular concept of “feminine modesty” carrying on even through death.''

''A suicide victim’s nudity could indicate a number of things about their psychological state or reasons for taking their own life, according to Simon. Some of the pychological themes present at naked suicides include the idea of rebirth or cleansing, atonement for guilt, or anger and the desire to traumatize surivors even further''.

“Knowing that one's body will be found naked and taking the trouble to remove clothing has psychological import,” Simon said. “The state of an individual's clothing, including partial undress and nakedness, can provide important clues in a psychological autopsy.”
A naked suicide can also be an expression of “vulnerability, utter despair, desolation and worthlessness,” he added.''

 

[TootsieFootsie]

The being nude part does seem strange.

I just wonder if that's what they chose, or if someone else left them like that.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

IMOHO: In order to clarify the mode of death in this particular case (which apparently looks like an equivocal one), investigation should provide postmortem psychiatric and psychological evaluation (or psychological autopsy-PA). But unfortunately, that would never happen; therefore, we will never know the truth, and the tragic end of life of two sweet sisters will remain unsolved.

Postmortem psychological autopsy for reasons of investigation is controversial, as it should be. Individuals with suicidal behavior can also be murdered or can also have an accident. A psychological autopsy as part of an investigation runs the risk of inherent bias and false conclusions based on a mental health condition. It's discriminatory with higher than average risks of being inaccurate, IMO. Psychological autopsies should only be reserved for research and preventative education in cases in which suicide is ruled the manner of death by evidence. MOO based on my experience.