Australia Australia - Tegan Lane, 2 days old, Sydney, 14 Sept 1996 *K. Lane guilty*

[Goosewhisperer]

Borovnik is not an expert in diagnosing, I give him little credit. The Judge at the trial had some not nice things to say about him.

On 13 th October 1999, a DoCS worker, John Borovnik, had told Virginia Fung that Keli had given birth to a female child in September 1996. In the end, the matter of the missing child was referred to Katoomba Police on 4 th November 1999. This started the process of a police investigation that, after many years, led to a coronial inquiry and, ultimately, to the filing by the Director of Public Prosecutions of an ex-officio indictment against the offender. I should add, however, that Mr Borovnik was not an impressive witness and presented as a person trying to inflate his own importance in the matter. His role in a recent Channel 7 program, when he purported to inform the audience of the precise manner in which Tegan met her end, did him little credit, and reinforced the view I had formed.

 

[Goosewhisperer]

We are all accountable for the language we use, and the impact it has - White Ribbon
Cowdrey's apology

 

[JLZ]

Borovnik is not an expert in diagnosing, I give him little credit. The Judge at the trial had some not nice things to say about him.

Caro was picking up on things that had been said to her about Keli, generally not by experts, and asking an expert to comment. Borovnik said Keli was a narcissist; Caro asked AB, who said "No." Borovnik said Keli was a psychopath; Caro did not ask the expert, or if she did, the question and answer were suppressed. I am not saying Keli is a psychopath because Borovnik said so. I am saying that since he said so, it would have been consistent and desirable for Caro to ask AB her opinion as to whether Keli is or not.

 

[Goosewhisperer]

I think there is probably more to come, 3 x 1 hour films possibly didn't tell all.

 

[JLZ]

I think there is probably more to come, 3 x 1 hour films possibly didn't tell all.

Apparently no more to come; it's presented as a "three-part television event" and the third episode is marked as "(Final)".

 

[Goosewhisperer]

No, I meant more to come, as in the further investigations.
Innocence Initiative is calling for an urgent review and 'an urgent investigation into the policing and prosecutorial practices that led to the Lane trial in the first place.'

 

[Ms Cadfael]

No, I meant more to come, as in the further investigations.
Innocence Initiative is calling for an urgent review and 'an urgent investigation into the policing and prosecutorial practices that led to the Lane trial in the first place.'

Instead of all that effort and energy spent trying to prove a mother, whom no-one knows where her child is, "Innocent", I wish all that effort would be placed in finding where that poor babies resting place is, or my bigger fear, is that she is still alive, but being used in a heinous manner, in an "underground" network, so can therefore, not be found/located!!

Wouldn't Keli be out of her mind, concerned, that she has handed HER baby over to someone and the authorities can't find a trace of her? Wouldn't she be screaming, "Don't worry about me, find my child, make sure she is ok, what can I do to help you find her??!!" Like another poor set of parents in NSW have for several years now.

I feel the baby was abandoned and a switch in her head was flipped like when she gave the other babies up, "Andrew" is simply an imaginative figure to appease her guilt.
Are they still allowed to use "truth serum", anymore??

I begrudge any time, energy, effort or money being spent on this woman.

I too was disappointed in this series. I think they could have really had a good look at Keli and her motives and opportunities and tried to find the baby, before helping her prove her undeserved "innocence".

Rough trial, Keli? Boo hoo!

 

[Via Marple]

The ABC journalists will continue their investigation and take tips from the community, in their Facebook group ExposedABC. It is a closed group. Just now I saw there are 13k members.

 

[JLZ]

Wouldn't Keli be out of her mind, concerned, that she has handed HER baby over to someone and the authorities can't find a trace of her? Wouldn't she be screaming, "Don't worry about me, find my child, make sure she is ok, what can I do to help you find her??!!" Like another poor set of parents in NSW have for several years now.

(snipped)

I took this down this morning because it shocked me when I came across it again. From the second episode:

Police: The matter is obviously going to go before the coroner at this stage because we've got a missing child.

Keli: Well it's just going to become a massive issue isn't it, everybody's going to know. And my mum and dad and [beep], they're not going to let me st- --they're not going to want to be near me. Are they? After everything they hear and everything that you've been through, that's just going to become public fodder. They're not going to let me stay with my daughter!


The last point is total fantasy, but supposing she believed it, look where it comes. Almost an afterthought. And Tegan being missing likely dead to the point that police talk about the coroner, that comes nowhere.

Yep. Missing child is going to become a massive issue, Keli. Believe it or not, that's just the way some people think.

 

[Bohemian]

Keli Lane: Former DPP Nicholas Cowdery apologises for comments on ABC's Exposed about killer's sex life - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

[keeponsearching]

I always assumed when a nurse comes in, they write down the time and check you and the baby out right then and there, not hours later doing the paper work... The whole what time did she leave the hospital seems off.

I don't see how she even went to trial for murder. They could of brought other charges forward. There is just no evidence. She should appeal with some new lawyers. Even if you think you got it in the basket, you still need to work.

I thought when they asked Keli at the end, about the name Andrew Norris, the way she behaved seem really odd. And then to say maybe she got his last name wrong..

Aghhhh this case makes you do flips in the head.

I believe her friend, that there is an Andrew. I want to believe she did hand Tegan off to this guy and his family. I wish she had more details. If she spent 10-15 minutes with this family in the entrance way at the hospital, one would think she would have more info.

 

[Via Marple]

I always assumed when a nurse comes in, they write down the time and check you and the baby out right then and there, not hours later doing the paper work... The whole what time did she leave the hospital seems off.

I don't see how she even went to trial for murder. They could of brought other charges forward. There is just no evidence. She should appeal with some new lawyers. Even if you think you got it in the basket, you still need to work.

I thought when they asked Keli at the end, about the name Andrew Norris, the way she behaved seem really odd. And then to say maybe she got his last name wrong..

Aghhhh this case makes you do flips in the head.

I believe her friend, that there is an Andrew. I want to believe she did hand Tegan off to this guy and his family. I wish she had more details. If she spent 10-15 minutes with this family in the entrance way at the hospital, one would think she would have more info.

I can't understand how 14:00 on the medical notes could be loosely interpreted to up to 3 hours earlier.. My experience with reading such notes in recent years, tells me that the time logged is always related to the event, not when it was written. Unless there weren't any standard at Auburn Hospital back then.

So I am already making the assumption that her discharge with Tegan occurred at about 14:00, whatever was put forward at the trial.

Then apparently she had to stop over at home to tidy up and get changed too, before heading to Fairlight her parents' home, arriving at around 15:00.

Such a superhuman effort. Not to mention where did Tegan fit in. She shouldn't even have 10-15 minutes left for meeting 'Andrew'.

BTW seem to recall in ep 1 that she was supposed to still be in touch with 'Andrew' for months afterwards, and hence the question of her new mobile phone later that year.

 

[Goosewhisperer]

Instead of all that effort and energy spent trying to prove a mother, whom no-one knows where her child is, "Innocent", I wish all that effort would be placed in finding where that poor babies resting place is, or my bigger fear, is that she is still alive, but being used in a heinous manner, in an "underground" network, so can therefore, not be found/located!!

Wouldn't Keli be out of her mind, concerned, that she has handed HER baby over to someone and the authorities can't find a trace of her? Wouldn't she be screaming, "Don't worry about me, find my child, make sure she is ok, what can I do to help you find her??!!" Like another poor set of parents in NSW have for several years now.

I feel the baby was abandoned and a switch in her head was flipped like when she gave the other babies up, "Andrew" is simply an imaginative figure to appease her guilt.
Are they still allowed to use "truth serum", anymore??

I begrudge any time, energy, effort or money being spent on this woman.

I too was disappointed in this series. I think they could have really had a good look at Keli and her motives and opportunities and tried to find the baby, before helping her prove her undeserved "innocence".

Rough trial, Keli? Boo hoo!

Well, it's my opinion that Tegan will not be found under the current situation.
In any case this is not really about anything except the right to a fair trial.

 

[sosocurious]

I can't understand how 14:00 on the medical notes could be loosely interpreted to up to 3 hours earlier.. My experience with reading such notes in recent years, tells me that the time logged is always related to the event, not when it was written. Unless there weren't any standard at Auburn Hospital back then.

So I am already making the assumption that her discharge with Tegan occurred at about 14:00, whatever was put forward at the trial.

Then apparently she had to stop over at home to tidy up and get changed too, before heading to Fairlight her parents' home, arriving at around 15:00.

Such a superhuman effort. Not to mention where did Tegan fit in. She shouldn't even have 10-15 minutes left for meeting 'Andrew'.

BTW seem to recall in ep 1 that she was supposed to still be in touch with 'Andrew' for months afterwards, and hence the question of her new mobile phone later that year.

Todays DT
Convicted child killer Keli Lane has been caught out on national television
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

* Keli first told the police she left the hospital between 11 and noon on 14 September 1996.
* Evidence at the trial said a woman in the bed next to Keli had noticed she was gone by noon.
But staff were not aware she had left the until about 2pm.

* Keli said that she spent 15 minutes in the foyer saying goodbye to Tegan before handing her to the bio father and his mother. But sources close to the investigation say this is the first time she has made claim to the 15 minutes, in the foyer.
* Initially she said Andrew drove her and dropped her off at a Gladesville address and took Tegan. She did change that story to the bio father took the baby at the hospital and she caught a cab to a Gladesville address.

 

[astorytold]

I have worked in the hospital setting for 10 years and I'm pretty sure the progress note they showed had the time of documentation as 1400 (in the left margin). Nurses usually do all their documentation at once (ie for all the patients under their care). Therefore it is completely plausible that the note was written some time after her actual discharge. If they were following proper medicolegal documentation guidelines they really should have documented "discharged at xxxx hrs."

I'm intrigued by the way in which Kelli offered absolutely no other details about Andrew. Also why no mention of the taxi driver who claimed she left the baby in some bushland?

 

[JLZ]

She should appeal with some new lawyers.

She did appeal, on seven or eight grounds. The appeal was unsuccessful. As a rule you get only one chance at appeal. You don't get another chance by changing your lawyers.

 

[sosocurious]

I have worked in the hospital setting for 10 years and I'm pretty sure the progress note they showed had the time of documentation as 1400 (in the left margin). Nurses usually do all their documentation at once (ie for all the patients under their care). Therefore it is completely plausible that the note was written some time after her actual discharge. If they were following proper medicolegal documentation guidelines they really should have documented "discharged at xxxx hrs."

I'm intrigued by the way in which Kelli offered absolutely no other details about Andrew. Also why no mention of the taxi driver who claimed she left the baby in some bushland?

I agree. Might write notes at the end of shift. But anything significant would require a time and details being documented in the notes . imo
Maybe the 14:00 hour entry was because that is when it was realised by staff she and the baby had left. So an entry was made at that time.

 

[astorytold]

I agree. Might write notes at the end of shift. But anything significant would require a time and details being documented in the noted . imo
Maybe the 14:00 hour entry was because that is when it was realised she was gone and so an entry was made at that time.

Yes, I think you're probably right!

 

[Ms Cadfael]

In any case this is not really about anything except the right to a fair trial.

I'm more concerned with Tegan's rights.

 

[Via Marple]

I agree. Might write notes at the end of shift. But anything significant would require a time and details being documented in the notes . imo
Maybe the 14:00 hour entry was because that is when it was realised by staff she and the baby had left. So an entry was made at that time.

Thanks soso, still the best source for DT!

I get it now. They didn't know when exactly she and baby left. So writing 1400 was the best they could say. It would be some unknown amount of time before 1400.

Then nurse had to change her story at trial, perhaps not to look bad for herself and hospital.

BTW, there are tonnes of Q&A at the Exposed FB group!