Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, 31 May 2019 #4

[HinterlandObserver]

Are you saying that on your photo - on the green path - when you reach the point where beach meets water, it's not obvious in the dark that you're going to end up precariously above the ocean; instead it looks as if you can climb onto the rocks and follow a safe-enough trail around the hill (and then back up to Lighthouse road?) But that in fact, it's not a legitimate trail at all?
Is there something they could do to prevent people from thinking it's a trail?
MOO.

Another local here.
No one would assume it’s a “trail”. There’s no visible walk way up there because people don’t go up there. It’s too steep. A kid tried to climb it in the day with friends around the same time Theo went missing, and got injured, so signs were put up warning people not to climb there. Anyone with common sense wouldn’t do it in the day, let alone at night anyway.

 

[T-dawg420]

I live in the area, and know that bit of coastline quite well .. So I think Theo simply turned left when he should have turned right when leaving CheekyMonkeys, became disorientated, but saw the lighthouse beam and used that as a guide, so he went cross country across to the ocean .. Once there he could see the lighthouse to his left, so he walked along Tallows towards it, when he got to Cosy Corner at the end, not knowing the spot well and it being dark, he didn't climb up to the lighthouse which he could have quite easily and found himself safe, instead he decided to try and go around Cosy Corner to get to it, which is dangerous sea and rocks and unfortunately met his fate there.

My map is here, so if he had taken the pink route up to the lighthouse he would have been OK, but it was dark and he didn't know the terrain, so he took the green route sadly.

We have a friend who's son fell off those rocks a couple of years ago and was badly hurt, it looks a lot safer than it is.

about a month or so after Theo went missing I went to Byron bay and I climbed up the hill from cosy corner, I didn’t get all the way to the lighthouse cos I was with someone but let me just say it’s not easy at all! It’s very very steep, even in the path you highlighted as the easier path to take.

it was hard and dangerous enough during the day, I can’t for the life of me imagine anyone attempting to climb that when they have never been there and have no intimate knowledge.

also, why go that way at all? Why not go back to the car park and then just walk your way out? It would be far easier to do that then try and climb that massive hill at night! Theo was a constant user of google maps according to the evidence given to the coroner so again, why go a dangerous way that’s not going to save much time at all?

it’s 700 meters more of a walk from the lighthouse to wake up than it is from cosy corner via tallows beach road..... so why even attempt it?

 

[T-dawg420]

I found it interesting in Antoines evidence it mentions in July (2019 I assume) he wrote to the Belgian police to alert them of some posts a Belgian person made on fb. I wonder what was said to make Antoine contact the authorities?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

about a month or so after Theo went missing I went to Byron bay and I climbed up the hill from cosy corner, I didn’t get all the way to the lighthouse cos I was with someone but let me just say it’s not easy at all! It’s very very steep, even in the path you highlighted as the easier path to take.

it was hard and dangerous enough during the day, I can’t for the life of me imagine anyone attempting to climb that when they have never been there and have no intimate knowledge.

also, why go that way at all? Why not go back to the car park and then just walk your way out? It would be far easier to do that then try and climb that massive hill at night! Theo was a constant user of google maps according to the evidence given to the coroner so again, why go a dangerous way that’s not going to save much time at all?

it’s 700 meters more of a walk from the lighthouse to wake up than it is from cosy corner via tallows beach road..... so why even attempt it?

I actually think he left CheekyMonkeys trying to get to the lighthouse using the beam as a guide, or left CheekyMonkeys to go home and headed towards the lighthouse to use it as a navigation point back to parts of Byron he knew better.

I don't think this was an INTENDED route, and clearly once you get to Cosy Corner there are no easy way out other than to go back where you came from and find your way to Tallow Beach Road.

I think this was an accidental death, Theo was trying to get somewhere at night, didn't know the area or the way around, and ended up in a position where he fell into the ocean either from the rocks higher up, or because he tried to go around that piece of coastline.

JMO

 

[mkay991]

Long time reader but first time commenting apologies in advance if I say anything incorrect I can delete!

I have been following Theo’s case since it broke mainly because of the closeness in age and looking to travel to Byron myself at the time.

Could it be possible he decided to walk the beach path back to WU as he maybe had not walked along the beach to get back before and he was perhaps told that’s another way to get back to the hostel when he checked in to WU.

Also if walking alone especially in a dark bush wouldn’t you be inclined to walk at a faster pace given it’s night time and you probably couldn’t see your own hand in front of you, even if the path is quite rough. I feel when walking with people you tend to walk a little slower and chat MOO.

Then again Theo’s hat falling off makes no sense.
If it indeed is his hat ( which from memory DNA testing was carried out and they do believe it is his) one would think he would have picked it up as mentioned in the inquest he didn’t like his hair getting in his face.

Watching the inquest the police are really pushing that he was alone, and IMO you can see why…. HOWEVER many unanswered questions and loose ends that do not make sense it really could go either way that he was with someone (or group of people) he met at the cricket grounds that knew their way around.


My heart really goes out to Theo and his family I hope they find answers and get some closure!!!

 

[Beagle]

Sorry if this has been dealt with before. I can see that we know for sure where the phone travelled but is there proof that Theo was with his phone all that time.

 

[Arccbr]

Long time reader but first time commenting apologies in advance if I say anything incorrect I can delete!

I have been following Theo’s case since it broke mainly because of the closeness in age and looking to travel to Byron myself at the time.

Could it be possible he decided to walk the beach path back to WU as he maybe had not walked along the beach to get back before and he was perhaps told that’s another way to get back to the hostel when he checked in to WU.

Also if walking alone especially in a dark bush wouldn’t you be inclined to walk at a faster pace given it’s night time and you probably couldn’t see your own hand in front of you, even if the path is quite rough. I feel when walking with people you tend to walk a little slower and chat MOO.

Then again Theo’s hat falling off makes no sense.
If it indeed is his hat ( which from memory DNA testing was carried out and they do believe it is his) one would think he would have picked it up as mentioned in the inquest he didn’t like his hair getting in his face.

Watching the inquest the police are really pushing that he was alone, and IMO you can see why…. HOWEVER many unanswered questions and loose ends that do not make sense it really could go either way that he was with someone (or group of people) he met at the cricket grounds that knew their way around.


My heart really goes out to Theo and his family I hope they find answers and get some closure!!!

Also a long time reader and first time poster and have been following the inquest every day. From the CCTV with the security guard when he was ejected he's facing the direction that he then walks off in, so I can understand why he started out on the route he took to avoid having to turn around and walk in the correct direction back past CM. I agree, IMO it is possible he had heard about that beach route to WU as he's headed in that direction along Tennyson St. This could explain at least the first part of the journey. But the route from the cricket nets onwards doesn't make any sense, I can't imagine a scenario where he would go that way of his own accord. MOO is that he bumped into someone hanging around this area, got chatting, maybe mentioned what had happened at CM and that he was headed back to WU and wanted to take the scenic route, and they proposed another way, perhaps to show him the lighthouse and led him astray. But the messenger/youtube activity at cozy corner is so bizarre, no matter what scenario I think about there's something that doesn't add up. I also can't understand if it was an accident, why his phone was never recovered, as it didn't enter the water.

My heart is with Theo's family, seeing the emotion they are going through in the court room I can't imagine their pain and I wish them some closure.

 

[dotr]

Welcome to Ws @mkay991 and @ Arccbr!
Thanks for chiming in, local perspectives are gold here!

 

[HinterlandObserver]

Long time reader but first time commenting apologies in advance if I say anything incorrect I can delete!

I have been following Theo’s case since it broke mainly because of the closeness in age and looking to travel to Byron myself at the time.

Could it be possible he decided to walk the beach path back to WU as he maybe had not walked along the beach to get back before and he was perhaps told that’s another way to get back to the hostel when he checked in to WU.

Also if walking alone especially in a dark bush wouldn’t you be inclined to walk at a faster pace given it’s night time and you probably couldn’t see your own hand in front of you, even if the path is quite rough. I feel when walking with people you tend to walk a little slower and chat MOO.

Then again Theo’s hat falling off makes no sense.
If it indeed is his hat ( which from memory DNA testing was carried out and they do believe it is his) one would think he would have picked it up as mentioned in the inquest he didn’t like his hair getting in his face.

Watching the inquest the police are really pushing that he was alone, and IMO you can see why…. HOWEVER many unanswered questions and loose ends that do not make sense it really could go either way that he was with someone (or group of people) he met at the cricket grounds that knew their way around.


My heart really goes out to Theo and his family I hope they find answers and get some closure!!!

You can’t see from Google maps but the area where Theo lost his hat is down an embankment and in a tidal swampy area. After following that path I don’t believe Tommy’s camp had anything to do with his route (it wasn’t close like they made out).

The direction he took from the t intersection after being there for some time was the only option without a clear path.
He only used his phone light once through the journey - while at the intersection.

It’s my own opinion he was with going people who had their torches on, who maybe disappeared into the bush ahead of him there and he got left behind. He waited there for a couple of minutes, looks up WakeUp again to check the route back, then someone calls out from up ahead. He runs to catch up, doesn’t realise the ground drops away, and falls down the bank into the swamp losing his hat. Gets up, still no light and dirty hands, and can’t find his hat immediately and just keeps going to find the people he was with.
follows along the bank of the swamp until he finds a high bit of land to cross the swamp to the higher land behind the beach and runs to the edge of the sand. He then checks Google maps again before heading towards cosy corner.
At this time, the search on his map for WakeUp would have suggested to walk out of the Tallows car park and up tallows beach road back to town. But he walked past the route to the corner, indicating he had motivation to be there.
The map with the gps points logged show he was stopped at the edge of the beach before what looks like running to catch up with people ahead of him, indicated By the distance between gps points.

IMOO

 

[T-dawg420]

Sorry if this has been dealt with before. I can see that we know for sure where the phone travelled but is there proof that Theo was with his phone all that time.

I’m pretty sure the proof they use Theo was in control of his phone up until around 1am is a few messages he sends to a friend and his sister in law In French, and cos he watches around 1min 50sec of footage from a show called burger quiz from back in France. Some have said it was a show he liked a lot.

I’m pretty sure that’s all the “evidence” they have of Theo being with his phone, I could be wrong and if there are other reasons please feel free to jump in and correct me anyone.

 

[AmberQ]

I lived in Byron Bay for years and I'm still in Northern NSW. Here's my theory:
He met someone or a group of people at the cricket nets, started talking, becoming friendly, they tell him there are fun parties at Tallows. They take the local track to Tallows/cosy corner. He loses his hat along the way and it’s too dark to find it, the people he is with don’t want to stop in the middle of the bush (they know to avoid Tommy’s camp). They drink and party with a fire at cosy corner, it’s out of the wind and it was a cold night.

He was killed either on purpose or by accident between 1.02 am and 6:15 am by one or more persons. They turned off his phone, buried him in the Arawkwal National Park and left the area. They kept his belongings, either turned his phone on or it turned on itself, then destroyed the phone or turned it off and buried his belongings/discarded them in a separate place.

From that data and the evidence of the witnesses at the inquest, it's the only explanation. I really hope they have done a deep search of that immediate area behind cosy corner in the bush, not just a surface search.

Condolences to Theo's family.

 

[tarabull]

Coroner cries as family recalls missing Belgian backpacker

 

[SaintGertrude]

Coroner cries as family recalls missing Belgian backpacker
But at 6.17am the phone started receiving data again, meaning it did not go into the water (the manufacturer confirmed it would not receive data if submerged).

The handset remained in roughly the same area, until its battery presumably ran out, but it has never been found.

In light of this what was the weather temperature at the time and was Theo adequately clothed so sleep out in the open.
So many places have been searched but could there be that one place which has been missed. Could Theo have passed away due to hypothermia for example.

 

[Eloise]

Coroner cries as family recalls missing Belgian backpacker
But at 6.17am the phone started receiving data again, meaning it did not go into the water (the manufacturer confirmed it would not receive data if submerged).

The handset remained in roughly the same area, until its battery presumably ran out, but it has never been found.

In light of this what was the weather temperature at the time and was Theo adequately clothed so sleep out in the open.
So many places have been searched but could there be that one place which has been missed. Could Theo have passed away due to hypothermia for example.

Between 12am and 6am on the 1 June 2019 it got to a low of 5°C in Byron Bay. Weather in June 2019 in Byron Bay, New South Wales, Australia

 

[SaintGertrude]

Between 12am and 6am on the 1 June 2019 it got to a low of 5°C in Byron Bay. Weather in June 2019 in Byron Bay, New South Wales, Australia

So Theo could simply have found somewhere to sleep until morning if he got himself lost and passed away from hypothermia.

 

[Eloise]

So Theo could simply have found somewhere to sleep until morning if he got himself lost and passed away from hypothermia.

based on this, I'd say it's unlikely at 5C unless he had fallen into water and couldn't get out. He was a healthy young adult, I wouldn't think 5C was cold enough

Surprisingly, people can experience hypothermia in relatively cool, but not freezing, air temperatures — around 30 to 50 F (minus 1 to 10 C) — particularly if they are wet, such as from rain, sweat or submersion in cold water, according to the National Weather Service. The body loses heat about 25 times faster in water than in air, Michael Sawka, chief of the Thermal & Mountain Medicine Division at the U.S. Army Research Institute of Environmental Medicine (USARIEM), told Live Science in a 2010 interview.

But hypothermia at these relatively cool temperatures is unusual.

Temperatures that are subzero, however, are "a whole different animal," said Dr. Robert Glatter, an emergency physician at Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City.

BBM

 

[SaintGertrude]

based on this, I'd say it's unlikely at 5C unless he had fallen into water and couldn't get out. He was a healthy young adult, I wouldn't think 5C was cold enough



BBM

What about the swamps in the area or is there only the one near the hostel.

 

[HinterlandObserver]

What about the swamps in the area or is there only the one near the hostel.

There are many swampy or wetland areas. In the inquest it references maps of searches performed in those areas but it’s unsure how meticulously they were done.

 

[centred]

What are the chances of Theo running into Thea Liddle in the area that night ? as it seems Thea was camping on and off in the area re that period 6 months before she went missing . I believe her body was found not so far from the playing fields . Also can anybody say why no news of the investigation into Thea can be found and so very little discussion re her disappearance and death ?

 

[HinterlandObserver]

What are the chances of Theo running into Thea Liddle in the area that night ? as it seems Thea was camping on and off in the area re that period 6 months before she went missing . I believe her body was found not so far from the playing fields . Also can anybody say why no news of the investigation into Thea can be found and so very little discussion re her disappearance and death ?

Her remains was found buried in the scrub off tallow beach road.
She would stay around Nimbin, Mooball, Tallows reserve etc.
They located her remains from tracking her phone eventually to at Tallows and bringing in dogs.
There’s not much about it because police havnt determined what happened to her and are hoping people just forget. Her remains have been found but no one has been held accountable for her death.
There’s some interesting stuff on YouTube by Robina Todd you can look up.

In my own opinion, it’s highly likely that Thea and Theo could have been in town at the same time. Knowing people who knew Thea, I don’t believe she was violent or aggressive, but she was very kind and compassionate, so could have kept company with people who were less than stable.
It’s also my own opinion that maybe Thea learned what someone had done to Theo and was silenced herself before she could say anything.
IMOO