Australia - Tiahleigh Palmer, 12, slain, Pimpama River, Qld, 30 Oct 2015 #2 *Arrests*

[Warshawski]

see here

IMO The Grandmother will be the reason TT will most likely be sentenced to time served + good behavior.

No credence given here by me JD. IMO, it is a standard 'right of passage ' for a young teenage girl to develop a crush on an older boy (similarly for a teenage boy, but that is not the scenario for discussion here)

As far as I am concerned, the onus is on the Adult to act as with the responsibility and conscious of an Adutl - sadly this sense very lacking, and I pray that we will soon a whole heap of new Laws that will plug those gains.

 

[Karinna]

on the face of this suggestion, I certainly see & agree with Hetty's call, and i do value your qualified comments
Karinna.

My concern is that presently we can't even manage the correct resources now ( ie numbers, support, skills, genuine & safe careers etc. much has been documented in these pages by many with experience ) so what makes us think that would change in a 'residential home' situation?

Thanks for your comment. I think from my experience working in the system as a nurse/carer in a residential environment, that it would be a similar situation to that. It works well for those residents that were intellectually handicapped and is like a home away from home so to speak, except in this instance it would be for placement of children that need to be cared for while parents can be doing what they need to get well enough to get things together to be able to have their children returned to them again. A foster situation should never be a permanent situation unless there are extenuating circumstances that prevent that from happening and then i guess an adoption process would be looked at. But at least there would be qualified carers working with the children on a rostered basis.

 

[possumheart]

I live in a suburb which is chockers with primary and high school children boarding in dormitories. What's the difference? Money and privilege. It is still institutional care.

 

[Bohemian]

I beg to differ with Hetty Johnston, having had personal experience of being in 'institutional care' and being aware of the proceedings of the current Royal Commission Into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse:

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/

__________

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=gJntV4riBbHM8geE-oC4BA

 

[they'll get you]

It is understood the arrests and perjury charges came after the family was compelled to give testimony before the Crime and Corruption Commission during the 11-month investigation.

Child protection group Bravehearts has called for a full investigation into how Tiahleigh was fostered out to a family whose father is now accused of her murder.

Foster Care Queensland executive director Bryan Smith said the present foster carer vetting process was "very sound".



http://m.huffingtonpost.com.au/2016...facts-about-the-tiahleigh-palmer-murder-case/

 

[they'll get you]

Role of the CCC
The Crime and Corruption Commission (CCC) is a statutory body set up to combat and reduce the incidence of major crime and corruption in the public sector in Queensland. Its functions and powers are set out in the Crime and Corruption Act 2001.

The CCC investigates both crime and corruption, has oversight of both the police and the public sector, and protects witnesses. It is the only integrity agency in Australia with this range of functions. In brief, the CCC:

investigates organised crime, paedophilia, terrorist activity and other serious crime referred to it for investigation
receives and investigates allegations of serious or systemic corrupt conduct
has a statutory function for crime and corruption prevention
helps recover the proceeds of crime
provides the witness protection service for the state of Queensland
conducts research on crime, policing or other relevant matters.

Special powers
The Crime and Corruption Act and other legislation has given the CCC investigative powers that are not available to the police or any other government agency in conducting an investigation. These include powers to conduct coercive hearings and to hold public inquiries



http://www.ccc.qld.gov.au/about-the-ccc

 

[Karo]

That is an unusual response, did she think they knew he was a potential killer?

It is understood the arrests and perjury charges came after the family was compelled to give testimony before the Crime and Corruption Commission during the 11-month investigation.

Child protection group Bravehearts has called for a full investigation into how Tiahleigh was fostered out to a family whose father is now accused of her murder.

Foster Care Queensland executive director Bryan Smith said the present foster carer vetting process was "very sound".



http://m.huffingtonpost.com.au/2016...facts-about-the-tiahleigh-palmer-murder-case/

 

[Champaign]

Role of the CCCThe Crime and Corruption Commission (CCC) is a statutory body set up to combat and reduce the incidence of major crime and corruption in the public sector in Queensland. Its functions and powers are set out in the Crime and Corruption Act 2001.The CCC investigates both crime and corruption, has oversight of both the police and the public sector, and protects witnesses. It is the only integrity agency in Australia with this range of functions. In brief, the CCC:investigates organised crime, paedophilia, terrorist activity and other serious crime referred to it for investigationreceives and investigates allegations of serious or systemic corrupt conducthas a statutory function for crime and corruption preventionhelps recover the proceeds of crimeprovides the witness protection service for the state of Queenslandconducts research on crime, policing or other relevant matters.Special powersThe Crime and Corruption Act and other legislation has given the CCC investigative powers that are not available to the police or any other government agency in conducting an investigation. These include powers to conduct coercive hearings and to hold public inquirieshttp://www.ccc.qld.gov.au/about-the-ccc

Some interesting papers on abuse in foster care going back to 2004 http://www.ccc.qld.gov.au/research-and-publications/browse-by-topic-1/children-and-young-people

 

[Karinna]

No system is ever going to be perfect because we don't live in a perfect world. But i think children that can't be properly monitored/reviewed as to their circumstances in out of home care, it leaves things wide open for abuse. And no child should have to be placed at even more risk than they were before going into state care. So in that regard something has to change IMO.
I know institutional care isn't perfect either, and with much more awareness now on child abuse in that type of set up than there was in previous eras, i think it could work better than foster care. Wonder how many foster carers there would be if there was no Govt. funded monetary incentive? I'm certain if that was the case there would of been no way Tiah would of been placed in the Thorburn pit of hell.

 

[they'll get you]

Tiahleigh was found after a week, that being such a relatively short time, would an autopsy find if she was pregnant or any trauma?

 

[Champaign]

Tiahleigh was found after a week, that being such a relatively short time, would an autopsy find if she was pregnant or any trauma?

Yes I would think so. But TT stated he had slept with her a week before her murder so IF this was the only time then it would be way too early. At this stage we do not know how long or how many times incest took place. Around this time Tia had told JT about what had happened as well. Did JT confront her husband about this and was the cause of the fear of Tia going back home around this time?

 

[they'll get you]

CCC Star chambers have become the super sleuths in notorious cases

The star chamber hearings that led to charges in the murder of Queensland schoolgirl Tiahleigh Palmer have become the secret weapon of police in tough cases.

Queensland’s Crime and Corruption Commission grilled members of the Thorburn family over the murder in June, and then again this week, using coercive powers that required they front hearings or face arrest.

Coercive powers are increasingly being used in Queensland, NSW and Victoria on state police matters and across Australia on organised crime murders by the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission.

Queensland police confirmed the family was given notice to *appear at the CCC star chamber, with the latest hearing on Monday — a day before the arrests.

While Tiahleigh’s foster father Rick Thorburn was charged with her murder, his wife, Julene, and two sons, Trent and Josh, have been charged with perjury relating to their testimony at the hearings.

On Tuesday, Detective Inspector Damien Hansen said Mrs Thornton was a “key witness’’, along with her two sons.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...s/news-story/243448338b0aeed0e18e978715069a78

 

[they'll get you]

I'm loving this CCC coercive powers. It appears the CCC can override privacy laws.

The ACC has special coercive powers to assist in the performance of its functions. These powers, which can only be exercised by an ACC examiner in the context of a special operation or investigation approved by the ACC Board, include the capacity to compel a person to produce documents, to attend an examination and to answer questions. The ACC's coercive powers are reinforced by a number of offence provisions. Under the Act, it a criminal offence to fail to comply with a document production notice, to fail to appear at an ACC examination or to fail to answer questions . It is also an offence to provide false or misleading evidence or to obstruct or hinder the work of the ACC.

http://www.lawcouncil.asn.au/lawcou.../10-divisions/131-australian-crime-commission


What is COERCIVE POWER?
Authority or power acquired by the employment of fear, suppression of free will, and/or use of punishment or threat.

 

[they'll get you]

The perjury charges against Trent Thorburn are believed to relate to allegedly false testimony given to secret Crime and Corruption Commission hearings. The CCC regularly holds “star chamber” hearings to obtain evidence on major crimes, and can force people to testify under the threat of charges.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/co...t/news-story/85c2ea71a19c0b05330983876a185f0c

OK I'll quit now but it looks like the CCC uncovered what LE couldn't.

I'm feeling like a mushroom.
Kept in the dark and fed only *****.

 

[Warshawski]

This ridiculous secret squirrel stuff surrounding foster children must stop. I thought it was a 'one off' crazy with William Tyrrell but it's now obvious this is how the system rolls.


Child safety service not told Tiahleigh Palmer's foster father was 'person of interest' for months

Tiahleigh Palmer’s foster father and accused killer Rick Thorburn was permitted to run a daycare business for five months after the schoolgirl’s death despite being a person of interest in the investigation, it has been revealed.

Queensland’s Department of Child Safety and Education were not notified that Thorburn was a person of interest in the case until April 2016, and the 56-year-old held a blue card until then, The Courier Mail reports.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/3274494...ment-in-tiahleigh-case-for-five-months/#page1

in the same article 'Police told News Corp last week that Thorburn was a person of interest “from day one”, however

 

[Warshawski]

I've searched about the kitchen being the crime scene but alas nothing, nowhere, zilch.

i saw this somewhere too TGY, but can't remember where.

 

[Warshawski]

And the police said, that he would be inclined to interfere with witnesses, and I wondered if that meant interfere with the claims, or story of his mother and brother.. I cant think of who else it could be.


​hi Trooper, perhaps the FB cousin ?0

 

[perfectingpink]

i saw this somewhere too TGY, but can't remember where.

This is the only mention of the kitchen I could find.

He showed off his strength in a Snapchat where he 'planked' in the kitchen of his home, where Tiahleigh is suspected to have been killed.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-Tiahleigh-Palmer-led-murder-body-found.html

 

[Warshawski]

I beg to differ with Hetty Johnston, having had personal experience of being in 'institutional care' and being aware of the proceedings of the current Royal Commission Into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse:

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/

__________

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=gJntV4riBbHM8geE-oC4BA

Certainly I understand Boho and I am genuinely sorry that things were as they were for you. I think Hetty also acknowledged the past problems, however, we should be able to learn from the past and do much better.

i had concerns too but Karinna mentioned how well it works for handicapped etc, and I know of similar housing situations working very well for those with some 'mental' challenges, so I do feel that IF correctly set up and professionally resourced, then it would provide another great support opportunity.

I dont feel feel that it should replace the 'foster family' model but instead 'supplement'.

I would be interested (and also ashamed I'm sure ) to see a report on numbers of children in need of care over the last 20 years say... just guessing those numbers will have increased significantly, but would love to be told otherwise.

At the same time I would suggest that the availability of 'genuine' committed and caring foster persons has Decreased in that period (for various reasons that i will spare you the detail). In order to meet their KPI's! IMO the standard DOCS response to that shortage would have been to 'look harder, push the boundaries, ignore a few gut feelings, smudge the acceptability levels a tad' .. And low & behold... the likes of Rick & Julene now make the grade and have gained another income stream.

I want all of our children to be in a safe and nurturing environment, and if we can better deliver that for our most vulnerable kids, then bring it on.

IMO the present programme must be changed and major focus must be given to supporting the wholesome development of those who will one day be responsible for the management of this country.

 

[Champaign]

This is the only mention of the kitchen I could find.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-Tiahleigh-Palmer-led-murder-body-found.html

There was an article the day they started to search with a picture of the kitchen and mention of crime scene. That article seems to of been edited now and the comment about it removed.