Australia- Two sisters in their 20s found dead inside Sydney unit had been there lengthy time, Suspicious deaths, June 2022

[whiterhino]

@UnDiluted7 I knew what you meant... I probably shouldn't have made that joke. Someone here on WS once told me that often when there isn't much communication from LE it's because they have information and are busy investigating.

Whatever took both their lives couldn't have been very obvious. Or there is a backlog and it's taken this long to do tests. I'm unfamiliar with laws and practices in AUS.

 

[evilwise]

This is just so sad, isn't it? Two young women (just girls back than) have the courage and the wits to flee their oppressive country, seek a new life on the other side of the world, and try to create a new free life in Australia. And for what? They weren't happy, and they still weren't free. They probably would have been no worse off if they had stayed in SA.

This is exactly the same thoughts I was having. It seems like maybe they were hoping to be able to make it on their own in a free country but they never found their footing and were either running out of the money they took with them or were being cut off by whoever was supporting them. Perhaps the time was coming soon when they would have been forced to return to SA and they decided they would rather die free. It really is sad, not just for them but for millions of other women like them living there.

 

[branmuffin]

Do we have any further clarification regarding the food that was left in a common area? I presume their apartment was a fully functioning one with a kitchen and eating area. So I'm wondering if most of their meals were delivered through a service like Uber Eats. I checked online to find there are food delivery services in Sydney, Menulog and Deliveroo being the most used ones.

Detective Allcroft said there was a welfare check in March because food they had delivered remained in the common area. Does that mean they were suspicious of someone delivering food? Australia has many food delivery services, Menulog and Deliveroo being the most popular. Did they have some reluctance to have a delivery person come to their apartment or even see them coming down to pick up the food? Is that extreme paranoia or a legitimate worry that a prior delivery person made them very uncomfortable? Was it the old boyfriend who had the AVO taken out against him or someone else they knew from their old life? Has LE checked their history of ordering food, what restaurants and shops and when was the last time they ordered food? Is there any other documentation of them going out to buy groceries?

They were obviously still alive after that initial welfare check because they were still going to the gas station picking up iced coffee and energy drinks. They were also still alive after the subsequent welfare check. I wonder what they were eating? It sounds like they were living on energy drinks and coffee, both which have enormous amounts of caffeine and sugar in them. I can see one person having an extreme negative reaction to high amounts of caffeine and sugar but two? That's a bit of a stretch in my opinion, although I am not discounting it could happen.

 

[Dotta]

"Det Insp Allcroft said police have been in contact with the family of the sisters, who are in Saudi Arabia, adding that there was "nothing to suggest" they were involved in the deaths.

She refused to comment on the visa status of both women and said no information suggested the sisters had fled their home country."

Mystery surrounds deaths of two sisters found in Sydney unit

New South Wales Police have identified the two Saudi Arabian sisters found dead in a Sydney unit last month amid a fresh appeal for information.

www.skynews.com.au

 

[Charlot123]

I guess they came from a wealthy family - were well educated, knew foreign languages, had means to escape and pay rents for 5 years without working.

But then, SA people are generally rich, no?
MOO

They are rich enough to have a strange form of “socialism”, for their own, believe me or not. Education and healthcare are free. But the crisis has been affecting SA as well. Also, the imported servants and housemaids (usually from other countries, such as Indonesia) are poor.

It is a complex society that is religious but not closed to human emotions; one thing that is seldom discussed is the rate of consanguinity due to close marriages in SA. It creates a number of medical problems.

Consanguinity among the Saudi Arabian population.

This study was conducted on 3212 Saudi families to investigate the prevalence of consanguineous marriages. The families were interviewed and the information on the relationship between the husband and wife was obtained. The overall rate of consanguinity ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

One more interesting statistical thing: the dramatic drop in marriages. Often, the women run away from marriages. I find this article interesting.

Marriage rate among Saudis dropping | Rob L. Wagner | AW

Saudi Arabia is not alone in its struggle to have its citizens marry but is part of trend in Middle East countries in which marriage is often not regarded as first life choice among young adults.

thearabweekly.com

 

[Charlot123]

Yep, time will tell, or not. They were probably dead for quite a while which is why they were going to get turfed by the landlord. I'm sure he had no idea they'd both been dead for a while which is why they didn't pay rent. Depending on the level of decomp the autopsy results COD may end up being undetermined. I can't imagine living with that kind of fear for years. Paranoia feeds paranoia and fear and anxiety can be the catalyst. It's got to affect your mental health and create psychosis. I think it's unlikely they were murdered. But I've been wrong before.

Having read the article, I think it is unlikely that they were murdered, either. I think their families might know the peculiarities of the young womens’ situation, that they are keeping it to themselves, but a very sympathetic interview might provide a hint.

For some reason, I am thinking about folie-a-deux phenomenon, often observed when two people somehow linked (often, siblings) share a place. One has a mental illness, the other, not, but starts sharing the delusions. It is not specific for any group, we can see it among our own, but the only way to treat is to separate the ones who share it. JMO; I wonder if something like it was involved here. And it is not the situation when Australian society failed them, or such. It is incredibly hard to diagnose such situations among one‘s own. MOO.

Folie à deux

Folie à deux is defined as an identical or similar mental disorder affecting two or more individuals, usually the members of a close family. Two case reports of this condition are presented with a brief review of the literature. Prompt recognition ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[dotr]

Wondering if the sisters were anorexic? speculation, imo.

 

[Dotta]

Wondering if the sisters were anorexic? speculation, imo.

Judging by their photos, I don't think so.
Their faces look round and healthy, not sunken and sickly thin.

I still can't wrap my head around their bewildering response to wellness check.
Huddling timidly in the corner of the room???

But maybe they were afraid of catching Covid and avoided meeting people?

It is truly heartbreaking that the lives of such young and beautiful girls ended so abruptly

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Strike Force Woolbird was established by Burwood detectives to investigate the circumstances surrounding the women’s deaths.

The apartment building in Canterbury where the two sisters’ bodies were found

The Burwood community is a small and close community, and we hope that someone may be able to assist our investigators – either through sightings, or those who knew the sisters and may have some information on their movements prior to their death,” she said.

Police have spoken to the family in Saudi Arabia and they are assisting police with their enquiries.

Ms Allcroft said there was “nothing to suggest” that the family were suspects, who have instructed the Saudi consulate to act on their behalf.

The welfare check in June when the landlord contacted the sheriff’s office after they had not received rent for more than a month.

Police previously attended the unit in mid-March after a call from the building manager.

“I believe food had been left out in the common areas and he contacted police as he was concerned for their welfare,” Ms Allcroft said.

Ms Allcroft said at the time the girls “appeared to be fine” and “no issues” were raised during that visit, with no further action taken by police.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/crime/police-confirm-dead-sisters-identities-as-investigation-continues/news-story/9f4a6d635549d41c1f292024cdc3330d

 

[dotr]

Judging by their photos, I don't think so.
Their faces look round and healthy, not sunken and sickly thin.

I still can't wrap my head around their bewildering response to wellness check.
Huddling timidly in the corner of the room???

But maybe they were afraid of catching Covid and avoided meeting people?

It is truly heartbreaking that the lives of such young and beautiful girls ended so abruptly

They are lovely in those passport photos, i should have worded my post as did they possibly become anorexic around the time they were filling up on energy drinks at the gas station? speculation.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Thank you.

I was thinking it may be a sort of storage unit or industrial unit that they were sleeping in.

So, a unit is an apartment. (Which in the UK we call a 'flat'!! All these varieties of English. Gotta love 'em!)

thanks for asking this question as I had also thought it meant a lock up or commercial premises

 

[Charlot123]

I'm just reading the info from this news article and the context I took from it and, as stated, all IMO. I also noted that the photo of the gas bar in question from the article shows it as having the Wild Bean Cafe as part of it and not just a simple gas station with a snack shelf and a drink fridge so suspect this is where the snacks may have been purchased.

Perhaps they didn't want to be seen out and about by anyone who may be looking for them thus the quick trips into the store for snacks/drinks. Gassing up under the cover of darkness perhaps because gassing up requires someone to be outside and stationary for a prolonged period of time(thus visible for recognition) and susceptable to possible 'grabbing' by someone you suspect is after you.

EXCLUSIVE: Sisters found dead in Sydney unit fled Saudi as teenagers

I am wary of any suicide pact as their previously observed behaviour of 'protecting one another' (huddled in the corner one behind the other during LE welfare check) would lead me to believe their remains would have also been found together but they were found in seperate rooms.

Anyway, this all just IMO.

What is the Wild Bean Cafe?

When I read about frequent diseases resulting from consanguinity in Saudi Arabia, it was g6PD deficiency. Where hemolytic crises can be triggered by fava beans, but also, other beans, carbonated drinks, the list is long. Could it be something like similar crisis triggered by new food?

Then, of course, other questions followed.

- did the sisters visit a doctor, a woman, in Australia? Any genetic illnesses?
- how did they dress?
- even if they left for a reason, it doesn’t mean they were not religious. Did they visit a local mosque? Did someone speak to the imam there?
- about filling in the car after darkness. Did it happen through the whole year, or did the episode fall on the Ramadan?
- their reaction to the police visit is very predictable if the policemen were men. If they were scared with female policemen, it is less explainable.

Now the issue that might be handled tactfully, funerals. They were found much later than they died. Plus, PM. Lots of rules have been bent already. Nonetheless, has anyone contacted their mosque and discussed the burial? They can’t be cremated according to Islamic laws. Maybe even discuss with their relatives what would be important. If the relatives were not involved, establish the connection.

 

[dotr]

Oh this place has everything, had pictured a sad little gas station, but now i understand the frequent visits the sisters apparently made there.
Were they studying or having to stay up late for something that ''necessitated'' buying energy drinks, otherwise if they were just hiding /hanging out at the apartment, why the need? imo, speculation.

https://www.pricelisto.com/menu-prices/wild-bean-cafe-au

 

[Charlot123]

They are lovely in those passport photos, i should have worded my post as did they possibly become anorexic around the time they were filling up on energy drinks at the gas station? speculation.

Not anorexic, but Ramadan that fell on April 1 till May 1 in 2022? Of course, AU is not a total desert and it would be autumn, but sometimes, not eating nor drinking before the first star is hard…

Three questions emerge, 1) were the sisters still religious? (My guess would be, they were still practicing although more open to the world)
2) when were they last checked on? Day?
3) did they simply overfast? People get fatwah if they have diabetes of some illnesses, but they were young and visibly, healthy

Anyhow, Ramadan could explain the food left outside; if delivered at the wrong time

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Not anorexic, but Ramadan that fell on April 1 till May 1 in 2022? Of course, AU is not a total desert and it would be autumn, but sometimes, not eating nor drinking before the first star is hard…

Three questions emerge, 1) were the sisters still religious? (My guess would be, they were still practicing although more open to the world)
2) when were they last checked on? Day?
3) did they simply overfast? People get fatwah if they have diabetes of some illnesses, but they were young and visibly, healthy

Anyhow, Ramadan could explain the food left outside; if delivered at the wrong time

Both my daughters went along to the Ramadan Nights at Lakemba, it’s a food festival celebrating Ramadan on April 1- May 1 from dusk to dawn, delicious dishes and the aromatic delights of Arabic/Turkish coffee.
Lakemba is only 10 minutes away from Canterbury. There was a lot movement of Muslims and those interested in the festival, travelling into and out of that area during this time, I wonder if this caused them concern?
It was a very large event this year after 2 lockdowns and the still current, pandemic. South-West Sydney which includes Canterbury were hit the hardest and during 2021, police were patrolling the streets and several buildings were in total lockdown.
Who knows how this impacted the young women’s mental health? JMO

 

[ZoriahNZ]

"Wild Bean Cafe" is basically a branded coffee franchise that is often partnered with the BP (British Petroleum) gas stations in Australia and New Zealand. Think if it as a place to grab barista coffees, baked snacks (muffins/meat pies/cookies) etc. It's not sit down, just a food counter situation.

I'm partial to their butter chicken pies and macaroni cheese bites.

 

[annpats]

"Wild Bean Cafe" is basically a branded coffee franchise that is often partnered with the BP (British Petroleum) gas stations in Australia and New Zealand. Think if it as a place to grab barista coffees, baked snacks (muffins/meat pies/cookies) etc. It's not sit down, just a food counter situation.

I'm partial to their butter chicken pies and macaroni cheese bites.

Same here in the UK, they are food outlets/mini marts at some of the bigger BP service stations.

 

[NeverPersonal]

Yes, that's the part that struck me as odd. Why would you visit the same petrol station store several times a day?! I know it mentioned for iced coffees, but still....several times a day?!?

It sounds a bit excessive.

I'm sure there were other small supermarkets or mini-marts locally, even within walking distance, where they could buy food.

I hope they were just living on what they could buy at the petrol station shop? That would've mainly been junk and 'to-go' snack food.

If they visited several times a day sometimes, this indicates to me they didn't have jobs, or any hobbies, or much to keep themselves busy or occupied.

It sounds very isolating.

MOO.

My pops and I used to ride bikes to the Mini Mart in our town twice or even three times a day at times, just for fun and to get outside.

If the sisters felt cooped up, perhaps it felt like the only safe outside activity.

 

[Shamrock1]

Dead Saudi sisters were ‘like two little sparrows ... scared of something’

A man who tried to help two young Saudi women who died mysteriously in Sydney say they cowered like frightened sparrows. “They were afraid of something”

www.smh.com.au

 

[dotr]

Dead Saudi sisters were ‘like two little sparrows ... scared of something’

A man who tried to help two young Saudi women who died mysteriously in Sydney say they cowered like frightened sparrows. “They were afraid of something”

www.smh.com.au

Thanks, from link..rbbm.

''Police say they have scant information about how and why the sisters died and know little about their lives since they arrived in Australia as teens in 2017.

But there were signs that something was wrong. Late last year, the sisters told the building’s managers they feared someone was tampering with their food deliveries. Surveillance video showed no issues, said one employee of the building management company, Transparent FM, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.''

''A plumber who visited the unit also raised concerns. “[He] said, ‘there’s something mysterious happening there’,” the worker said. The sisters’ car – a series five BMW – was also keyed, although that may have been because they were parking in the wrong spot.''

“I took one look at those girls, and thought, ‘You are hiding something.’ These girls were very secretive. They kept a very low profile.” Their unit was sparsely furnished, but as messy as would be typical for 20-something sisters who spent most of their time at home.''