Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #3

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You are AMAZING Ausgirl!!:loveyou:

Thank you so much for that fascinating analysis! That breakdown confirms our instinctual feelings that he is lying.

And thank you for this fine line: "Ausgirl, suspicious webslooth and general know it all." :floorlaugh:
 
He's a master manipulator. :p

Cheers guys. But the cred really goes to Mark McClish, who I've personally dealt with and think highly of. I respect his work and have learned a LOT from him!

As an aside, I have met a LOT of "master manipulators" in my time, with high IQ's but few to no social skills (outside the few which enable a veneer of civility and charm).. which is their downfall, always -- they just don't know how people really do things, though they think they do. Their lies are often quite transparent, for all their machinations. They will often repeat a "formula" of behaviour that has worked in the past, even it doesn't work a few times, it's all good - most of the time is good enough for them.

I know this type extremely well. Better than anyone would ever wish to. I really must remove that MAMMOTH SIGN over my head that reads: "Free Sociopath Candy"
 
I thought I might apply a bit of statement analysis to this little bit of text, Tostee talking to his dad in the car.. I feel this is important group of words, as it here we can see a cover story evolving before our eyes. His father is the FIRST person he needs to convince of his innocence, but he hasn't had more than an hour or so to create his story, and no-one else to sound it out on.

For the sake of brevity I have colour coded the sources of the information as follows:

Mark McClish, statement analysis expert.

Peter Hyatt, statement analyst from TrueJustice.org

Ausgirl, suspicious webslooth and general know it all.

=====

Pre-Warriena Terrified Balcony Girl

"She’s small so I go to hug and lift her up and take her inside from the balcony but she totally freaks out, mumbles something about getting back to her parents and bolts out the door. Deletes me off both Tinder and FB. Maybe I acted too abruptly and snapped her out of her little lust-trance by manhandling her.”

When people use present tense language, it is an indication they are making up the story. Truthful people will rely on their memory as they tell us what happened. This will cause them to use past tense language. Since deceptive people are not searching their memory but are making up the story, present tense language may creep into their statement.



=====

Warriena

3.23.13am:We were both drinking and I think that she thought that it was like a joke or something and she kept like beating me up and whatever. It was cos she was really drunk and whatever and I like forced her out on the balcony and I think that she might have jumped off.'

Liars have a difficult and stressful task of recalling what stories they have told and by adding “perhaps” and “maybe”, they are able to later defend their inconsistency.

I think" can also mean it may not have happened. "Sort of" means it kind of happened.
When a person says he "thinks" he is telling us there is an uncertainty in his answer. There is a chance that what he thinks is not true.


....language that is noncommittal. Words or phrases such as: "kind of," "I think," "I thought," "I don't know," "about," "like" and "sort of." We cannot believe something happened unless the person tells us it happened.

The repeated use of "and whatever" implies to me an act of glossing over details he does not wish to elaborate on. To me, this points to a lie of omission.

Why did he feel impelled to point out that "we" were "both" drinking, when "we were drinking" would have done. The word "both" stands out here to me -- from the rest of the recording, we know Warriena was much more drunk than Tostee, and that he kept pouring strong moonshine for her, which she kept saying she didn't want. I think it's important to Tostee that he establishes himself as quite drunk, to later support his "I don't remember" statements.


Male: 'I didn't cause this, like I didn't push her.

Male: this is not my fault ... I don't know, like I tackled her on my floor inside the building and I never forced her over the balcony.'


Everything a person says has a meaning. There is a reason why a person mentions something or why he phrases it a certain way.

In an open statement, the subject should only report what he remembers. When a person states that he does not remember something, he is telling us that he remembers that he does not remember! This is a strong indication the subject is withholding information.


The word “never” does not mean “no.” Therefore, you cannot substitute the word “never” for the word “no” which is something deceptive people like to do.

When you are accused or suspected of having done something, the use of the word "never" is a weak denial.

Tostee is clearly leaving room for future untruths here "I don't know, like..." precedes a more direct statement, undermining it, leaving it open to later change as he sees fit. It shows a non-committal to what he's saying.

Male: I swear to god I didn't push her, I just chucked her out on the balcony and locked the door because she was beating me up.'

...deceptive people may try to convince you they are telling you the truth. They will sometimes do this by using phrases such as "I swear to God," "I swear on my mother's grave," "Honest to God," "Honestly" as well as several other phrases.


Male: what happened was we were drinking and we got into bed together then and after that she just kept drinking and she just kept like I don't know she was just like beating me up. I was just like tackled her in the middle of my apartment and I said that it wasn't funny anymore and blah blah blah.
Then when I let her go the last thing I remember was she was on the balcony and I don't know if she jumped or what, I don't know. It wasn't my fault, it wasn't my god damn fault.

3.51am: 'Why does this s hit always happen to me. I didn't ask for this
. I wasn't doing anything wrong, I just invited the girl over. The more she drank ...'


Always note when an unreliable denial is coupled with a diverting accusation. It is critical for analysis. It weakens the unreliable denial even further.


Male: Last thing that I remember was that I tried holding her down and she ran out on to my balcony.

Dr. Paul Eckman teaches that testifying to memory failure is almost always deceptive.

Oho, so by the end of this Warriena "ran out" to the balcony. ORLY. When two sentences ago, and for a few before that, she was being "forced" and then "chucked", and now she got there, he wants his dad to believe, under her own steam. So that's a blatant LIE, no analysis needed.

"Last thing I remember" is another LIE, if less easy to point to. But is he seriously sayign he remembers everything BUT the moment when she went over? He is trying to make himself absent from a crime scene at which he was VERY MUCH PRESENT.

Also note how the victim blaming gets more pronounced as he talks on and on.. Also, his priority of concern is evident -- It's all just happening to HIM isn't it. :no:


====

I am sure there's a ton more to be said, and to be analysed, but yeah -- this is the dawning of all lies to come, so is of particular interest to me.

Mark McClish: http://www.statementanalysis.com/

Peter Hyatt: http://.blogspot.com.au/

Yes!! Love how you've drawn attention to his progressively absent involvement - from forced, to chucked, to ran. It seems the more he said it all out loud, he recognised that he should process the tale further and further to diminish his involvement. Good call!
 
Why why why??
Is it a suggested suicide? A note at the bottom of this - If you need help call Lifeline on 13 11 14

Given that there isn't much in the news about it, and the lifeline message at the bottom, I guess it most likely is suicide. RIP :(
 
Which is it Tostee? Pick a box, any box. Ding dong you loose.

Male: I swear to god I didn't push her, I just chucked her out on the balcony and locked the door because she was beating me up.'

Then when I let her go the last thing I remember was she was on the balcony and I don't know if she jumped or what, I don't know. It wasn't my fault, it wasn't my god damn fault.

Male: Last thing that I remember was that I tried holding her down and she ran out on to my balcony
 
If GT deleted all the data on Rrie's phone, would he have been able to ring her, really? My guess is that if her SIM card was still in it, it would have still worked. Anyone know?
 
If GT deleted all the data on Rrie's phone, would he have been able to ring her, really? My guess is that if her SIM card was still in it, it would have still worked. Anyone know?

It's difficult to remove the sim in a iPhone. The iPhone comes with a very fine pointed pin thingy to remove the casing. I recall it's in behind the battery which is also hard to remove.
 
That original recording devise appears to have been in close proximity to GT from the moment it was activated until it ceased.
2.10am - Sound of a struggle and ruffling of recording devise. Female states "That really hurt my vagina".

I wonder if it was one of those wrist watch recorders. They look just like an ordinary.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-...olice-transcript-tostee-murder-trial/5731322I

The bedroom picture. I recall the PC is at the foot of the bed and there was a Skype camera attached to the top of the screen possibly to record the bed. I'm wondering if that could be a video device as well.

LE must love this technology. Idiots recording their crimes.
 
The bedroom picture. I recall the PC is at the foot of the bed and there was a Skype camera attached to the top of the screen possibly to record the bed. I'm wondering if that could be a video device as well.

LE must love this technology. Idiots recording their crimes.

bbm :yes:
 
Which is it Tostee? Pick a box, any box. Ding dong you loose.

Male: I swear to god I didn't push her, I just chucked her out on the balcony and locked the door because she was beating me up.'

Then when I let her go the last thing I remember was she was on the balcony and I don't know if she jumped or what, I don't know. It wasn't my fault, it wasn't my god damn fault.

Male: Last thing that I remember was that I tried holding her down and she ran out on to my balcony

^ I'm 'McClishing' the bolded part of that above here: this is not a 'natural' sentence. It makes little sense, when you look at it. "Then, when I let her go..." and you would normally expect this to proceed, in a normal sentence spoken by someone with nothing to hide, a description of the actions "she" took, immediately following the "letting go".

But nope. The sentence swings to a complete divergence from "what actually happened next" and enters "Tostee covers own *advertiser censored*" territory -- it is clearly an avoidance of the truth of HOW, exactly, Rrie got to the balcony. Added to that, we have the tell-tale "I don't remember", surrounded by things Tostee DOES remember, quite clearly, which points very strongly to him having something to hide.

Of course, we KNOW he was manhandling her out onto that balcony -- but it's interesting to observe the language of a liar, and the evolution of a lie.

Coupled with the repeated, yet linguistically 'weak' denials of having physically been responsible for her going over the edge, I suspect more strongly than ever that Tostee was indeed directly responsible for Rrie's fall. He might not have 'pushed' her off, in a direct intent to murder -- but I DO think it's very possible he put her out on that little ledge/left her dangling as a means of terrorising her further.

eta: I can't resist looking at the next part -- "and I don't know if she jumped or what, I don't know. It wasn't my fault, it wasn't my god damn fault."

- There's good ol' god again, padding out the wished-for believability of the statement.
- "Or what" -- he cannot say the word "fell", interestingly. I wonder why.
 


Was he working as a carpet layer at this time (2012)? Just wondering if he had access to & drove a work vehicle? If he did, I'm sure his employer would be thrilled to know their insurance was null & void in the event of an accident! I wonder if any others were aware of his unlicensed driving.... condoned/disapproved? I am really struggling to find an ounce of empathy for this guy.
 
Going by his posts on the bb forums, his antisocial behaviour toward LE, and both his self-reported predatory behaviour of women and the statements of others who have witnessed his predatory behaviour in nightclubs, I believe he's highly dangerous too.

And yes, he plays the 'dumb' card when it suits him. He's calculating imo.

And, as in so many of these cases we explore, I SOOOOO wish he'd had some effective professional intervention when he was still a child in primary school - there MUST have been warning signs. A guy like this doesn't just spring up overnight!!!

BBM
Spot on Isisrising! Personally, I often encounter parents who seek an ASD diagnosis when junior starts playing up at age 15. I often wonder (if legit) how they managed to reach that age without diagnosis/intervention. From age 3, every day was a huge struggle with our Aspie son & we virtually became prisoners in our own home due to extreme meltdowns & lack of sleep. It affected every area of our lives & we needed professional help pronto - referral to autism clinic at age 4, early intervention started & today we have a smart, well mannered & loving 10yr old (albeit socially awkward). He is your typical classroom cop with utmost respect for rules, regulations, systems & structures! lol Back to Tostee - yes, I firmly believe warning signs would've been flowing thick & fast in childhood. Look forward to hearing more about his history in regard to consulting professionals.
 
BBM
Spot on Isisrising! Personally, I often encounter parents who seek an ASD diagnosis when junior starts playing up at age 15. I often wonder (if legit) how they managed to reach that age without diagnosis/intervention. From age 3, every day was a huge struggle with our Aspie son & we virtually became prisoners in our own home due to extreme meltdowns & lack of sleep. It affected every area of our lives & we needed professional help pronto - referral to autism clinic at age 4, early intervention started & today we have a smart, well mannered & loving 10yr old (albeit socially awkward). He is your typical classroom cop with utmost respect for rules, regulations, systems & structures! lol Back to Tostee - yes, I firmly believe warning signs would've been flowing thick & fast in childhood. Look forward to hearing more about his history in regard to consulting professionals.

There DEF would've been signs...whether his parents wanted to see them or not.

My parents and most of their friends were primary school teachers. I know of numerous occaisions when they bought up disturbing behavioural problems to parents, who dismissed them. Some of these kids are now in jail on really serious offences. Not to mention the amount of parents who conveniently decide to take their kids off meds the week of school camp.

Unfortunately a lot of people are blind when it comes to their kid's faults. The Tostee's look like they continually make excuses/allowances for and protect their son's anti-social behaviour and would've done so from a young age. Speaks a little bit of narcissism on their part to me (no son of mine would ever do that blah blah)

To me GT sounds like he would've been that annoying primary school kid who would pick on someone then lie to the parents/teachers and say it was their fault, then smirk as the other kid got punished. He was probably a very convincing liar as a child and has filtered that through into adulthood. I also reckon he looks like he probs would've had a bit of a case of the fats as a teen, which would explain his victim complex/body obsession.
 
That original recording devise appears to have been in close proximity to GT from the moment it was activated until it ceased.
2.10am - Sound of a struggle and ruffling of recording devise. Female states "That really hurt my vagina".

I wonder if it was one of those wrist watch recorders. They look just like an ordinary.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-...olice-transcript-tostee-murder-trial/5731322I

The bedroom picture. I recall the PC is at the foot of the bed and there was a Skype camera attached to the top of the screen possibly to record the bed. I'm wondering if that could be a video device as well.

LE must love this technology. Idiots recording their crimes.

I have no doubt the GT put anything he could to good use to makes his recordings.
But I was thinking, sure while he was in the apartment something could have been placed somewhere discretely.
Based on the transcript the recording devise was moving with GT. It leaves the apartment with him down the lift of to the night club and to order and eat pizza and finally to his dads car.
R'rie asked could she go and look out the window and her voice faded which seems to me to indicate that she was not only moving away from the recording devise but also GT.

GT after fleeing the scene was making calls to lawyers, R'rie and his father - that would require two hands wouldn't it?

Sure the recording devise may have been in his pocket but I would think that the recording then would not be as clear with fabric and the like rubbing.
So it got me to thinking that maybe that recording devise was on Tostee the whole evening and it just went wherever he went.
Hence my suggestion of a watch.
Googled them and they are not that expensive and look just like an ordinary watch.
Hope this makes sense.
 
That original recording devise appears to have been in close proximity to GT from the moment it was activated until it ceased.
2.10am - Sound of a struggle and ruffling of recording devise. Female states "That really hurt my vagina".

I wonder if it was one of those wrist watch recorders. They look just like an ordinary.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-...olice-transcript-tostee-murder-trial/5731322I

Sorry soso, the link isn't working for me, says Page not Found.
 
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