Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #9

[Elde Fruit]

I'm curious as to why you think this is weird.

To me, it makes no sense. Maybe it will when we hear more detail of the question.

 

[SouthAussie]

"Generally speaking, "assault" occurs when someone threatens bodily harm to another in a convincing way. Assault often is followed by battery, which is defined as unlawful physical conduct (often an act of violence, but also unwelcome sexual contact). Not all threats are considered assault."

http://injury.findlaw.com/torts-and-personal-injuries/elements-of-assault.html

 

[alicat]

I am thankful you found that as it is relevant to some posts over the last several days. Members will recall that on many occasions, it was asserted here that Tostee told her she was not going to collect her belongings. What has jus been posted accords with what I heard in the recording, which was, "You’re not going to collect any belongings."

What he may well have been referring to (or had in mind) was that prior occasion when an invitee pinched one of his belongings on her way out of the Unit.

Maybe Warriena was going to steal his PEBBLES?!

 

[Strangeworld]

"Generally speaking, "assault" occurs when someone threatens bodily harm to another in a convincing way. Assault often is followed by battery, which is defined as unlawful physical conduct (often an act of violence, but also unwelcome sexual contact). Not all threats are considered assault."

http://injury.findlaw.com/torts-and-personal-injuries/elements-of-assault.html

Thanks, SA.
BBM - so is this part open to interpretation I wonder?

 

[Elde Fruit]

Maybe Warriena was going to steal his PEBBLES?!

The incident with the rocks came well after he made that comment about walking her out of the apartment.

 

[Mrs Bennett]

I am thankful you found that as it is relevant to some posts over the last several days. Members will recall that on many occasions, it was asserted here that Tostee told her she was not going to collect her belongings. What has jus been posted accords with what I heard in the recording, which was, "You’re not going to collect any belongings."

What he may well have been referring to (or had in mind) was that prior occasion when an invitee pinched one of his belongings on her way out of the Unit.

How would you know what he had in mind?

 

[katydid23]

I am not sure they are going to be able to come to a verdict. There are 6 men and 6 women. I think they may be seeing things from different perspectives overall. Much like we see in social media and even here on WS.

 

[Makara]

Oct 19, 2016 4:33 PMStuff Editors
The court has reconvened - for more legal discussion which we can't share due to court reporting rules here in Queensland. We will report more when the jury is called into the courtroom.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/85406561/live-gable-tostee-verdict

 

[sosocurious]

I am thankful you found that as it is relevant to some posts over the last several days. Members will recall that on many occasions, it was asserted here that Tostee told her she was not going to collect her belongings. What has jus been posted accords with what I heard in the recording, which was, "You’re not going to collect any belongings."

What he may well have been referring to (or had in mind) was that prior occasion when an invitee pinched one of his belongings on her way out of the Unit.

His previous invitee is not part of evidence. Is it?

 

[alicat]

The incident with the rocks came well after he made that comment about walking her out of the apartment.

Pebbles.

He meant her belongings. He had her phone in HIS back pocket!

 

[BasTyra]

I am thankful you found that as it is relevant to some posts over the last several days. Members will recall that on many occasions, it was asserted here that Tostee told her she was not going to collect her belongings. What has jus been posted accords with what I heard in the recording, which was, "You’re not going to collect any belongings."

What he may well have been referring to (or had in mind) was that prior occasion when an invitee pinched one of his belongings on her way out of the Unit.

If that's true and he was just worried about her stealing something on her way out he wasn't exactly acting in self defense or in fear of his life.
He probably already had her phone in his pocket at this stage anyway, judging by their earlier argument where she can't locate it. I just don't think he wanted her to have it.

Could someone please pm me the audio that's not broken up with news reporting? I can't find it in the old threads and I want to check something that's cut out of all the newsy ones.

 

[Elde Fruit]

Thanks, SA.
BBM - so is this part open to interpretation I wonder?

The Queensland Criminal Code explains is in greater detail:

[h=3]Criminal Code 1899 - SECT 245[/h] 245 Definition of assault 245 Definition of assault

(1) A person who strikes, touches, or moves, or otherwise applies force of any kind to, the person of another, either directly or indirectly, without the other person's consent, or with the other person's consent if the consent is obtained by fraud, or who by any bodily act or gesture attempts or threatens to apply force of any kind to the person of another without the other person's consent, under such circumstances that the person making the attempt or threat has actually or apparently a present ability to effect the person's purpose, is said to assault that other person, and the act is called an assault.​

BBM
IBM
UBM
​

 

[SouthAussie]

“You *advertiser censored* psycho. I’m going to let you go, I’m going to walk you out of this apartment, just the way you are,” he says.
“You’re not going to collect any belongings. I’ll slam the door on you. You’re not going to pull anything or I’ll knock you out. I’ll knock you the *advertiser censored** out. Do you understand? Do you understand?”

http://www.news.com.au/national/que...m/news-story/9d371f8eb19ac2e00fee6fa474f631fd
Maybe, one or a few of the jury think Tostee was using threatening language. I wonder what the Judge will say?:thinking:
It's interesting to look over Tostee's words again. He's using very threatening language and he says he'll walk her out the door just as she is, but then decides not to. This is crucial, he changed his mind and it had nothing to do with Warriena's actions, but her words. She would call the police. JMO

2:17am Tostee: "You're a *advertiser censored* psycho. I am going to let you go. I am going to walk you out of this apartment just the way you are. You are not going to collect any of your belongings you are just going to walk out and I am going to slam the door on you do you understand. If you try and pull anything. I'll knock you out. I'll knock you the *advertiser censored** out. Do you understand? Do you understand? Do you understand?"

BBM: On the actual recording, he does say 'your' belongings. Just wanted to point that out for others who may not have had the opportunity to listen to the whole recording.

 

[Amee]

Pebbles.

He meant her belongings. He had her phone in HIS back pocket!

yep and her handbag, shoes ,key ,etc inside the unit

 

[Cleaver Greene]

To me, it makes no sense. Maybe it will when we hear more detail of the question.

I think the jury has discounted that the physical force to remove her to the balcony was excessive. Or that her actions in climbing off the balcony were a reasonable, rational response to the physical threat he posed.

 

[sosocurious]

Are verbal threats considered an assault?

Threats to seriously injure, or kill another person is considered as an assault, but the threat has to create a fear that it would be carried out. Threats that are unlikely or impossible would not normally be considered as an assault. Threatening to kill or injure someone is a crime that is not taken lightly by the states. In Victoria for example, threats to kill as spelled out in s 20 of the Crimes Act carries with it a maximum of 10 years imprisonment if it is real, rather than fanciful.

http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/4274/assault-laws-in-australia-definitions-and-defences.aspx

 

[Elde Fruit]

How would you know what he had in mind?

I don't, and did not assert I did.

 

[alicat]

I give up. I officially hate our justice system.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I am thankful you found that as it is relevant to some posts over the last several days. Members will recall that on many occasions, it was asserted here that Tostee told her she was not going to collect her belongings. What has jus been posted accords with what I heard in the recording, which was, "You’re not going to collect any belongings."

What he may well have been referring to (or had in mind) was that prior occasion when an invitee pinched one of his belongings on her way out of the Unit.

But why can't Warriena have her belongings? I don't understand why it's okay for him to keep her things. If I had a belligerent guest in my home, I wouldn't even pretend to keep their property. It's just control and escalating an already volatile situation.

AFAIK, he didn't report the lady for theft, he used social media to condemn her. Tostee was furious someone stole from him, but it's okay for him to do it?

 

[Ausgirl]

Are verbal threats considered an assault?

Threats to seriously injure, or kill another person is considered as an assault, but the threat has to create a fear that it would be carried out. Threats that are unlikely or impossible would not normally be considered as an assault. Threatening to kill or injure someone is a crime that is not taken lightly by the states. In Victoria for example, threats to kill as spelled out in s 20 of the Crimes Act carries with it a maximum of 10 years imprisonment if it is real, rather than fanciful.

http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/4274/assault-laws-in-australia-definitions-and-defences.aspx

I think the jury WANTS to come back guilty, but are trying to do so to the letter of the law, as is expected of them.

They cannot see if he used "force" but they can hear that he used abusive, forceful language and they can hear that she was terrified by it.

Hence, IMO, the likely reason for the question and also the long deliberation.