Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sep 2014 - #65

[Naobh]

"The court heard how Tyrrell's parents were in a "troubled relationship" with a history of substance abuse and domestic violence when he was born on June 26, 2011."

IMO this indicates the children witnessed domestic violence in a chaotic environment. Often parents can come back from such a situation."


As to the BBM above---often parents can come back from a situation of drug abuse and domestic violence---but what happens if they don't? How long are their kids left in limbo, waiting to see if their bio parents can rehabilitate successfully?

I feel sad for the children that don't get the chance for stability and a strong emotional foundation, because their bio parents are given 10 years or more to try and straighten things out---and the kids are the ones that are negatively impacted. JMO

We've had royal commissions into these things in this country. It is a complex and difficult problem, and yes, very sad and harrowing. However the conclusions advocates and experts have reached is that reunification with the bio family is nearly always in the best interests of the child. This is for various reasons. One of them being snobby people judging small things more harshly sometimes (but academics will call this cultural something or other I think). Does anyone have a summary of the royal commission? Or an article explaining it. @organised_chaos ?

Facs appears to have gone against what we have learned over the years as a country imo and the entitlement shown by say a FF who doesn't want the kids to call BM "mum" suggests something about their character in the context of other pointers etc imo.

 

[Naobh]

"The court heard how Tyrrell's parents were in a "troubled relationship" with a history of substance abuse and domestic violence when he was born on June 26, 2011."

IMO this indicates the children witnessed domestic violence in a chaotic environment. Often parents can come back from such a situation."


As to the BBM above---often parents can come back from a situation of drug abuse and domestic violence---but what happens if they don't? How long are their kids left in limbo, waiting to see if their bio parents can rehabilitate successfully?

I feel sad for the children that don't get the chance for stability and a strong emotional foundation, because their bio parents are given 10 years or more to try and straighten things out---and the kids are the ones that are negatively impacted. JMO

We've had royal commissions into these things in this country. It is a complex and difficult problem, and yes, very sad and harrowing. However the conclusions advocates and experts have reached is that reunification with the bio family is nearly always in the best interests of the child. This is for various reasons. One of them being snobby people judging small things more harshly sometimes (but academics will call this cultural something or other I think). Does anyone have a summary of the royal commission? Or an article explaining it. @organised_chaos ?

Facs appears to have gone against what we have learned over the years as a country imo and the entitlement shown by say a FF who doesn't want the kids to call BM "mum" suggests something about their character in the context of other pointers etc imo.

"The court heard how Tyrrell's parents were in a "troubled relationship" with a history of substance abuse and domestic violence when he was born on June 26, 2011."

IMO this indicates the children witnessed domestic violence in a chaotic environment. Often parents can come back from such a situation."


As to the BBM above---often parents can come back from a situation of drug abuse and domestic violence---but what happens if they don't? How long are their kids left in limbo, waiting to see if their bio parents can rehabilitate successfully?

I feel sad for the children that don't get the chance for stability and a strong emotional foundation, because their bio parents are given 10 years or more to try and straighten things out---and the kids are the ones that are negatively impacted. JMO

Just to make a comparison for illustration, hopefully I'm not going on and on too much.

Did you watch Big Little Lies? Mum and dad have a few wines (alcohol is a drug), there is domestic violence while the boys are in the next room.

The house is clean, the kids are well dressed, the police aren't called because no one can hear in a huge house surrounded by garden...

How many years was that going on?

Did you ever once think, those boys should have been on an 18 year order?

 

[katydid23]

We've had royal commissions into these things in this country. It is a complex and difficult problem, and yes, very sad and harrowing. However the conclusions advocates and experts have reached is that reunification with the bio family is nearly always in the best interests of the child. This is for various reasons. One of them being snobby people judging small things more harshly sometimes (but academics will call this cultural something or other I think). Does anyone have a summary of the royal commission? Or an article explaining it. @organised_chaos ?

Facs appears to have gone against what we have learned over the years as a country imo and the entitlement shown by say a FF who doesn't want the kids to call BM "mum" suggests something about their character in the context of other pointers etc imo.

But we don't know that FF didn't want the kids to call the Bio Mom 'mum.' That is total speculation.

All we were told was that WT said she was his birth mom, if I remember correctly. He didn't say my Foster mom said not to call you mum.

Kids ask these kinds of questions when they have visits with birth family while living with caregivers. They want to know why the person they call mum is only with them at the park once a month. I don't think it is wrong for FF to explain it truthfully. He has been living with his foster parents ever since he can remember---so they appear to be his parents to everyone else. It makes sense he and his sister are going to be asking more questions about it.

 

[k-mac]

What FACS did or didn't do with bio family before has no relevance to the disappearance of WT and the current investigation and inquest.
Imo

Thats a matter of opinion.

Considering who the current POI is.

If the undercurrent of pressure, resentment, fear of the future, independant thinking teenager coming into her own......

There was an undercurrent of something going on in that house for an AVO, assault charges and said childs removal from home.


Could be a pattern.

moo

 

[katydid23]

We've had royal commissions into these things in this country. It is a complex and difficult problem, and yes, very sad and harrowing. However the conclusions advocates and experts have reached is that reunification with the bio family is nearly always in the best interests of the child. This is for various reasons. One of them being snobby people judging small things more harshly sometimes (but academics will call this cultural something or other I think). Does anyone have a summary of the royal commission? Or an article explaining it. @organised_chaos ?

Facs appears to have gone against what we have learned over the years as a country imo and the entitlement shown by say a FF who doesn't want the kids to call BM "mum" suggests something about their character in the context of other pointers etc imo.


Just to make a comparison for illustration, hopefully I'm not going on and on too much.

Did you watch Big Little Lies? Mum and dad have a few wines (alcohol is a drug), there is domestic violence while the boys are in the next room.

The house is clean, the kids are well dressed, the police aren't called because no one can hear in a huge house surrounded by garden...

How many years was that going on?

Did you ever once think, those boys should have been on an 18 year order?

No, I didnt see Big Little Lies, so I don't know how to answer that question specifically.

But in general, if the parents are routinely , for years, drinking enough to end up in domestic violence situations, then YES, the kids should be removed from the clean house, in their nice clothes. JMO

Kids know when there is violence taking place behind closed doors. That is a very toxic, debilitating situation.

 

[SouthAussie]

Just to make a comparison for illustration, hopefully I'm not going on and on too much.

Did you watch Big Little Lies? Mum and dad have a few wines (alcohol is a drug), there is domestic violence while the boys are in the next room.

The house is clean, the kids are well dressed, the police aren't called because no one can hear in a huge house surrounded by garden...

How many years was that going on?

Did you ever once think, those boys should have been on an 18 year order?

FaCS obviously got involved about both children from witness statements and/or court cases.

It is not as if this drug use and domestic violence happened in a vacuum .. with FaCS taking a wild guess that this couple had created a really unhealthy and risky environment for their first child, and their second child.

imo

 

[k-mac]

I feel sad for the children that don't get the chance for stability and a strong emotional foundation, because their bio parents are given 10 years or more to try and straighten things out---and the kids are the ones that are negatively impacted. JMO

sbm

I agree totally katy and there are amazing fosters, adoptive families who bring amazing enrichment to kids lives that needed it.
But it is like everything its individual.
BM was never given the opportunity to have the kids back.
She stepped up and she should have.


With the recent developments coming out of the fosters home it is questionable about stability and emotional foundation occurring there.

Lets not forget 7 years earlier a child in their care vanished under their watch.

We can not kid ourselves about extremely serious facts one child is presumed dead under their watch and now another has been removed and accused of domestic assault.


moo

 

[Jaded325594]

Thats a matter of opinion.

Considering who the current POI is.

If the undercurrent of pressure, resentment, fear of the future, independant thinking teenager coming into her own......

There was an undercurrent of something going on in that house for an AVO, assault charges and said childs removal from home.


Could be a pattern.

moo

IMO - it's also relevent because facs are responsible for the living arrangements that have resulted in one child being lost/stolen/or worse and the other removed because of abuse concerns.

Same as Taileigh Palmer. FACS didn't kill her, but they put her the situation where it happened.

 

[katydid23]

sbm

I agree totally katy and there are amazing fosters, adoptive families who bring amazing enrichment to kids lives that needed it.
But it is like everything its individual.
BM was never given the opportunity to have the kids back.
She stepped up and she should have.


With the recent developments coming out of the fosters home it is questionable about stability and emotional foundation occurring there.

Lets not forget 7 years earlier a child in their care vanished under their watch.

We can not kid ourselves about extremely serious facts one child is presumed dead under their watch and now another has been removed and accused of domestic assault.
moo

She didn't get that opportunity to have them back because he went missing. And contrary to popular belief, we still don't know WHY or HOW that happened.

I am not convinced that the children did not have stability and a good emotional foundation in their F family. WT looks very happy and comfy in the pictures I have seen.

We have all seen pictures of abused kids, where their mouths are in a smile position but their eyes are sad and empty or full of fear. I don't see that in his pictures. I don't see a fearful and neglected child, imo.

The recent 'developments' have not yet developed into anything, as far as we know so far. I do not believe FF has bite marks on her legs, or had a big blonde bun piled on her head as she sped away with a standing child in a spider man suit.

I don't know enough about this alleged abuse on LT to form an opinion yet.

It feels to me like they have no other suspects so they are going back to the beginning and now trying to see if the F parents might be the guilty parties.
If so, this alleged child abuse might be part of their strategy.

The whole thing seems reminiscent of the media driven investigation against BS earlier. So I can't get fully behind all these wild accusations just yet. JMO

 

[Deleted member 161976]

That they may have been wanting to foster to adopt and willing to take kids who had the possibility of reunification with their bio family

Why would they want to adopt or foster children who had possibility of being reunited with their biological family?

Thats a matter of opinion.
Considering who the current POI is.

Yes that's why I said IMO. Who is the current POI? Darren Bennet replied to a question in the most recent police update that they haven't nominated specifically one POI.

 

[k-mac]

Yes that's why I said IMO. Who is the current POI? Darren Bennet replied to a question in the most recent police update that they haven't nominated specifically one POI.

Its in any msm you choose to read, who the current POI is,not sure why you are asking me.

 

[SouthAussie]

IMO - it's also relevent because facs are responsible for the living arrangements that have resulted in one child being lost/stolen/or worse and the other removed because of abuse concerns.

Same as Taileigh Palmer. FACS didn't kill her, but they put her the situation where it happened.

The best way (imo) to keep your children safe is to nuture them in a healthy manner, and keep them from the arms of strangers.

There is an extreme shortage of foster carers out there.

It stands to reason that FaCS does its mandatory checks, and desperately tries to find safe places for the HUGE amount of children who, very unfortunately, need alternate care.

Of course, FaCS and the processes should remain under constant review and quality control.

Foster mum who has cared for 35 children reveals what the system is really like
Hundreds of carers needed in regional areas as COVID causes foster carer shortage
Foster care shortage leaves vulnerable kids further from home

imo

 

[Marg944]

In my honest opinion, the FFC has successfully fooled highly experienced experts throughout the disappearance of William, so for her to be able to fool the FACS during the course of her being accepted as a FC, and during the time she was indeed a FC..... would have been easy.

 

[JayWill]

Why would they want to adopt or foster children who had possibility of being reunited with their biological family?


Yes that's why I said IMO. Who is the current POI? Darren Bennet replied to a question in the most recent police update that they haven't nominated specifically one POI.

BBM. 1) Because that is what foster care is. IMO. It is not an adoption service. Moo.
2) After giving out huge hints, they are not denying it, either.

 

[sniffsniffcough]

"The court heard how Tyrrell's parents were in a "troubled relationship" with a history of substance abuse and domestic violence when he was born on June 26, 2011."

IMO this indicates the children witnessed domestic violence in a chaotic environment. Often parents can come back from such a situation."


As to the BBM above---often parents can come back from a situation of drug abuse and domestic violence---but what happens if they don't? How long are their kids left in limbo, waiting to see if their bio parents can rehabilitate successfully?

I feel sad for the children that don't get the chance for stability and a strong emotional foundation, because their bio parents are given 10 years or more to try and straighten things out---and the kids are the ones that are negatively impacted. JMO

IMO the correct steps would be as soon as a report is received of any domestic violence, children should be removed immediately and where possible placed with a bio family member. If that is not possible, the children placed into temporary foster care. Then the biological parents receive intensive intervention and counselling and drug rehabilitation. When/if it is considered the biological parent/s physical health and mental health have stabilized, and domestic violence issues between the biological parents are no longer a threat, children are re-united witha biological parent with intensive support.

IMO There has been NO mention in the media that either of the children witnessed domestic violence so to discuss that this may have occurred is not founded on anything. Many parents have raised-voice arguments in front of their children and IMO that is not considered as domestic violence, which IMO is a physical altercation.

If you are aware of any media article or interview that confirms the children had witnessed physical domestic violence between their biological parents I would be very interested to read such article. Please post a link.

IMO there are children that are far worse off that suffer extreme levels of physical violence at the hands of their parents.

IMO the biological mother went onto have 2 further children after William and his sister were removed, and these children were not removed from their biological mother and this tells me that FACS considered she was able to care for these children and intervention was not required. IMO if that is the case, then I cannot understand why William and his sister were not afforded the right to return to their mother's care.

And now there are allegations of physical violence against both foster carers charged with a common assault offence , which is said to have involved William's sister and an AVO sought after by NSWPOL.

Every corner turned in this tragic case throws up more horrendous detail that makes me extremely sad and emotional.

William Tyrell Foster Parents Charged with Common Assault

 

[antechinusRAWR]

Why would they want to adopt or foster children who had possibility of being reunited with their biological family?


Yes that's why I said IMO. Who is the current POI? Darren Bennet replied to a question in the most recent police update that they haven't nominated specifically one POI.

The change in tone & language from police might have more to do with a change in Police Commissioner than it does with any change in the investigation

State appoints first female top cop

 

[BreakingNews]

No, I didnt see Big Little Lies, so I don't know how to answer that question specifically.

But in general, if the parents are routinely , for years, drinking enough to end up in domestic violence situations, then YES, the kids should be removed from the clean house, in their nice clothes. JMO

Kids know when there is violence taking place behind closed doors. That is a very toxic, debilitating situation.

However, just like in DV situations, the victims just want the abuse to stop! Not necessarily upend their entire world's!

 

[sniffsniffcough]

We've had royal commissions into these things in this country. It is a complex and difficult problem, and yes, very sad and harrowing. However the conclusions advocates and experts have reached is that reunification with the bio family is nearly always in the best interests of the child. This is for various reasons. One of them being snobby people judging small things more harshly sometimes (but academics will call this cultural something or other I think). Does anyone have a summary of the royal commission? Or an article explaining it. @organised_chaos ?

Facs appears to have gone against what we have learned over the years as a country imo and the entitlement shown by say a FF who doesn't want the kids to call BM "mum" suggests something about their character in the context of other pointers etc imo.

Does this link contain the information you are after? Note: RC is not only about sexual abuse.
https://www.lwb.org.au/foster-care/...tutional-responses-to-child-sexual-abuse-and/

There have been numerous Commissions of Inquiry in various States of Australia. Mr Google is my best friend.

 

[sniffsniffcough]

The change in tone & language from police might have more to do with a change in Police Commissioner than it does with any change in the investigation

State appoints first female top cop

IMO more likely to do with what the Coroner is aware of and what she has based or orders on that NSWPOL are acting upon currently. IMO Coroners hold a lot of power when they are tasked with discovering if a person is alive or deceased. The articles linked below give a very concise explanation as to a Coroners' role.

IMO not even a Police Commissioner (in any State) can over-ride a Coroner's request.

Overview of the Coronial process

Role of the Coroner

added: I think the 'the change in tone and language' is as a direct result of new and fresh evidence before the Coroner.

 

[katydid23]

However, just like in DV situations, the victims just want the abuse to stop! Not necessarily upend their entire world's!

But abusive violent offenders do not tend to just stop that behaviour. If a man is beating his wife behind closed doors, those children are not safe either, in my opinion. That is how one ends up with PTSD at a young age.