Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sep 2014 - #65

[SLouTh]

I think everyone understands this, the question is why a long term placement after such a short time in care (comparatively speaking to other cases) when he was taken into care over something relatively minor, (the children were not abused) from a very young mum who had capacity to change (end relationship) and appeared to remain invested in her children (showing up to contact - there are parents that don't bother). What support was provided to BM (a young mum herself being abused) to enable the family to stay together? Housing? Relocation? I have seen my state go to great lengths to assist reunification.

William had been with the Foster Parents for over 2 1/2 years .....and IIRC the decision is often made at the end of a 12 month period.

I do agree that FACS does have some serious questions to answer and some explaining to do!

Long-term or permanent care - these are placements for longer than two years. Long-term or permanent care usually occurs when the child is not expected to return to their family. In some circumstances, carers can apply to become legal guardians of, or adopt children, who have been in their long-term care.

Types of foster care - About foster care | Family & Community Services (nsw.gov.au)

 

[drsleuth]

I think the FM is more than capable of thinking on her feet, she was able to pull together and quickly organise to go to the FGM'S as a 'last minute' change of plan.

11 September, 2014:

2.50pm: On a last minute change of plan, the foster mother and father leave their Sydney home, drop their cats at kennels.

4pm: The foster parents collect William and his sister from childcare and start the drive up to Kendall one day earlier than planned, via the F3, stopping en route at Caltex, Wyong and then, at 6.35pm, Raymond Terrace McDonalds.

William Tyrrell’s doomed life

That's a hell of a lot different to responding to , maybe a fatal accident & covering up the death & all that goes with that of a little boy you have cared for for the past 2+ years

Very different IMO

 

[Jaded325594]

William had been with the Foster Parents for over 2 1/2 years .....and IIRC the decision is often made at the end of a 12 month period.

I do agree that FACS does have some serious questions to answer and some explaining to do!

Long-term or permanent care - these are placements for longer than two years. Long-term or permanent care usually occurs when the child is not expected to return to their family. In some circumstances, carers can apply to become legal guardians of, or adopt children, who have been in their long-term care.

Types of foster care - About foster care | Family & Community Services (nsw.gov.au)

Yes, and I wonder what FACS doing during those 2.5 years to support and strengthen William's bio family, working towards reunification? :/

 

[sniffsniffcough]

My biological parents were killed in a car crash when I was one year old. My three year old sister and I were adopted and sent to Australia. I recall nothing but my sister very vaguely remembers the plane flight and a lot of fuss. It seems to me that LT may well have recollection of what happened whe WT disappeared.

@agrid I am terribly saddened to hear of your loss and hope you have been able to live your dreams and Australia has been very kind to you and your sister; IMO your feet landed in the best country in the world!

I agree with your sentiment for LT.

I was not adopted but removed from my abusive mother and separated from my step-siblings and placed in a couple of foster homes. With the encouragement and wonderful loving support, kindness and guidance of one of the female carers I was able to jump up 3 classes and went onto gain excellent qualifications.

 

[Aimee2]

November 29, 2021 - 6:04AM

Investigators searching for new clues into the 2014 disappearance of William Tyrrell are “very confident” they will find fresh evidence to continue the coronial inquest into what happened to the three-year-old.

However, if nothing significant is found things would be left “in the hands of the coroner”, Det Chief Supt Bennett said.

“No matter what happens, the investigation will go on,” he said.

William Tyrrell finds to help resume inquest

 

[Deleted member 161976]

Yes, and I wonder what FACS doing during those 2.5 years to support and strengthen William's bio family, working towards reunification? :/

What FACS did or didn't do with bio family before has no relevance to the disappearance of WT and the current investigation and inquest.
Imo

 

[inkpink]

ews.com.au › courts-law › news-story
14 Dec 2018 — At the time William Tyrrell vanished he was playing a game of ... that I heard the children playing but didn't see them,” Mrs Wilson told ...

Thank you!

That's a good article.

 

[Naobh]

What FACS did or didn't do with bio family before has no relevance to the disappearance of WT and the current investigation and inquest.
Imo

There's been speculation that the wealth and status of the FF has made them able to influence the department somehow imo. That they may have been wanting to foster to adopt and willing to take kids who had the possibility of reunification with their bio family, which would say things about their character and possibly strong underlying issues imo. Now that the FFs presumed good character is under question imo.

Edit. Also with regards to motive imo in keeping one child if there may be a possible coverup imo. And not being able to just hand one difficult child in one parent's view back imo.

 

[Naobh]

This would depend on decisions already made by family court. If the children were already on 18 year orders bio mums chance of having them returned would be slim.
She may not have had further chn removed because she has cleaned up her act, but doesn’t automatically equate to getting earlier chn back.

All IMO

Sure, but I highly doubt witnessing violence and the psychological impact of that is enough for an 18 year order imo. Legally, psychological harm is difficult to prove, even though it's obviously not good for the child imo. I have family who get many chances and work with the department and supports so that's my impression.

 

[sniffsniffcough]

What FACS did or didn't do with bio family before has no relevance to the disappearance of WT and the current investigation and inquest.
Imo

IMO it really comes down to just how much information and the quality of that information that was shared by FACS or caseworkers with the foster family as to why the children were removed from their bio parents, any historical file records of bio family history with FACS, the standard of care the bio family were able to provide the children before they were removed from the care of their bio parents, the financial status of the bio family, and how long the foster carers and bio families were told the children would likely be in their care.

IMO history should never be ignored.

We as a Community can only form a view through the perspective of hindsight and we do not know the intricate details of the current investigation, and any new or fresh information that was gleaned by the Coroner/NSWPOL through the course of the Coronial Inquiry which may be related to all processes these children, the bio family and foster parents were involved in. IMO

And I have to say that IMO if the bio family had been supported by the assistance of specialists who provide intervention support with any drug addiction and/or domestic violence issues (as far as I am aware there has been no public mention of violence committed against either children by their bio parents) the outcome may have been totally different for both William and his sister and their bio parents.

IMO drug use and addiction often leads to violence.

Where are you William?

 

[sniffsniffcough]

Sure, but I highly doubt witnessing violence and the psychological impact of that is enough for an 18 year order imo. Legally, psychological harm is difficult to prove, even though it's obviously not good for the child imo. I have family who get many chances and work with the department and supports so that's my impression.

IMO 'we' are not privy to inside information about what actually occurred and personal interactions within the bio family, therefore we don't know if either of the children witnessed any violence involving their bio parents.

 

[inkpink]

That's a hell of a lot different to responding to , maybe a fatal accident & covering up the death & all that goes with that of a little boy you have cared for for the past 2+ years

Very different IMO

Some people can throw things together at the last minute without batting an eyelid and can even operate better when under pressure. (I'm one of these)

I'm just looking for clues that the FM could be such a person, whilst I'm pondering the possibility of an accident happening and the FM being able to efficiently cover it up in the short time frame.

This ability, coupled with another type of personality that is narcissistic, self preserving etc.. IMO, could potentially pull that off, so I've been looking for those traits as well.

 

[sniffsniffcough]

That's a hell of a lot different to responding to , maybe a fatal accident & covering up the death & all that goes with that of a little boy you have cared for for the past 2+ years

Very different IMO

IMO it is likely only the two adults present at 48 Benaroon Drive after 9.00am know what occurred with William, and from words spoken by the FFC (links to many interviews conducted with media representatives have been posted in the WS Media 'no discussion' thread - page 7), she was with William for substantial periods of time on the morning of 12/9/2014.

 

[sniffsniffcough]

Some people can throw things together at the last minute without batting an eyelid and can even operate better when under pressure. (I'm one of these)

I'm just looking for clues that the FM could be such a person, whilst I'm pondering the possibility of an accident happening and the FM being able to efficiently cover it up in the short time frame.

This ability, coupled with another type of personality that is narcissistic, self preserving etc.. IMO, could potentially pull that off, so I've been looking for those traits as well.

IMO and personal speculation, for someone to be able to renovate/rebuild a home within a year of a child in her personal care disappearing, ability to cope with living at the property whilst the home was in demolition and rebuild stage (a total nightmare from my personal experience) dealing with architects/builders/planners/council/fitout/landscaping/interior design aspects, at the same time whilst participating in further police interviews and getting to know a replacement head of Rosann Taskforce, whilst conducting a formidable amount of media interviews, whilst supporting and guiding a 4-5yo sibling that was present at the property where her beloved brother disappeared from, whilst supporting the sibling in commencing her education, whilst setting up a fundraising drive and monitoring a specific FB page, whilst supporting a grieving spouse and her own grieving and William's sister's grieving, reveals to me FFC has an exceptional ability that must be hard-wired.

 

[mussopossum]

re the FGM’s car - I posed question earlier as to when the car may have been removed from 48 Benaroon Dr. ( I understand it now belongs to her Granddaughter)

Does anyone know if FGM was still able to drive when she sold up & left 48 Benaroon ?

Does anyone know where she went to live then ?
Was it with Family, was it to a smaller house, did she move into retirement village or nursing home ?

Am just wondering if FGM’s car may have been ‘out of sight, out of mind’ very early in the situation.

I cant back this up with a link but I thought that the FGM moved to Sydney after the sale. Not sure if she moved in with her daughter or went to a home. I remember her health deteriorated quite rapidly. FFC might have discussed this at the inquest?. If anyone knows it would be @drsleuth I honestly can't remember, but thought she had moved to Sydney.

 

[katydid23]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

I think everyone understands this, the question is why a long term placement after such a short time in care (comparatively speaking to other cases) when he was taken into care over something relatively minor, (the children were not abused) from a very young mum who had capacity to change (end relationship) and appeared to remain invested in her children (showing up to contact - there are parents that don't bother). What support was provided to BM (a young mum herself being abused) to enable the family to stay together? Housing? Relocation? I have seen my state go to great lengths to assist reunification.

From what has been published, it is an unusual case and FACS has questions to answer.

If William was taken at birth from a 30 year old addict who already had 5 kids removed, misses contact and shows limited ability to change - understandable.

Although out-of-home care may be beneficial for children who are unsafe living with their families of origin, it is generally viewed as an intervention of last resort, and there is a preference for children to be reunited with their birth parents wherever possible. From -
National framework for protecting Australia's children indicators, 0.2 Out-of-home care - Australian Institute of Health and Welfare

Is it really that 'minor' that the B parents took him and hid him from FACS , illegally? After the older sibling had already been removed, then there were similar problems with the younger child---wouldn't FACS be concerned that this wasn't a stable home situation?

You say that she is a young mom with the ability to change and end that volatile relationship---but she actually had 2 more children with him first---so it wasn't that quick of an improvement. That would have been years more of volatility if the kids had been in that home still.

It is hard to accurately second guess FACS decisions sometimes because we don't know everything they knew at the time. JMO

 

[Naobh]

IMO 'we' are not privy to inside information about what actually occurred and personal interactions within the bio family, therefore we don't know if either of the children witnessed any violence involving their bio parents.

"The court heard how Tyrrell's parents were in a "troubled relationship" with a history of substance abuse and domestic violence when he was born on June 26, 2011."

IMO this indicates the children witnessed domestic violence in a chaotic environment. Often parents can come back from such a situation. If the department is putting kids from these types of vulnerable families where they may not have the skills and resources to fight it, into 18 year orders, that is dodgy imo, and the foster family imo. We were supposed to have got rid of forced adoption imo.

William Tyrrell's parents hid him from authorities before putting him in foster care, court hears

 

[sniffsniffcough]

I wonder if it would be possible that she could leave the house on an occasion wearing slippers on her feet, then once at her car realise her mistake and go back into her house to put proper shoes on her feet?

link to article 1st posted 0n 17/11/21 and updated on 19/11/2021. I can't be sure what date the photo was taken. IMO she must have been very distressed to leave the house in those purple slippers with media hounds present.
William Tyrrell's foster parents are CHARGED with assaulting a child at their home | Daily Mail Online



There are quite a few photos of a search scene. I see what looks like a small metal chain being removed from the ground. Could this be an item of jewellery or a belt? See 2 snips below!



media reported this discovery as a thin piece of of material. IMO it is NOT material but some sort of metal chain/necklace that has a mixed size of chain-links.

 

[katydid23]

"The court heard how Tyrrell's parents were in a "troubled relationship" with a history of substance abuse and domestic violence when he was born on June 26, 2011."

IMO this indicates the children witnessed domestic violence in a chaotic environment. Often parents can come back from such a situation. If the department is putting kids from these types of vulnerable families where they may not have the skills and resources to fight it, into 18 year orders, that is dodgy imo, and the foster family imo. We were supposed to have got rid of forced adoption imo.

William Tyrrell's parents hid him from authorities before putting him in foster care, court hears

"The court heard how Tyrrell's parents were in a "troubled relationship" with a history of substance abuse and domestic violence when he was born on June 26, 2011."

IMO this indicates the children witnessed domestic violence in a chaotic environment. Often parents can come back from such a situation."


As to the BBM above---often parents can come back from a situation of drug abuse and domestic violence---but what happens if they don't? How long are their kids left in limbo, waiting to see if their bio parents can rehabilitate successfully?

I feel sad for the children that don't get the chance for stability and a strong emotional foundation, because their bio parents are given 10 years or more to try and straighten things out---and the kids are the ones that are negatively impacted. JMO

 

[mussopossum]

IMO and personal speculation, for someone to be able to renovate/rebuild a home within a year of a child in her personal care disappearing, ability to cope with living at the property whilst the home was in demolition and rebuild stage (a total nightmare from my personal experience) dealing with architects/builders/planners/council/fitout/landscaping/interior design aspects, at the same time whilst participating in further police interviews and getting to know a replacement head of Rosann Taskforce, whilst conducting a formidable amount of media interviews, whilst supporting and guiding a 4-5yo sibling that was present at the property where her beloved brother disappeared from, whilst supporting the sibling in commencing her education, whilst setting up a fundraising drive and monitoring a specific FB page, whilst supporting a grieving spouse and her own grieving and William's sister's grieving, reveals to me FFC has an exceptional ability that must be hard-wired.

I never quite looked at it that way. The unfortunate thing is, we only see what is reported in the media or the Foster parents explaining their actions/state of mind through questioning at the inquest.

There is so much I want to write however cannot as it would be a breach of TOS.

Even if renovations were approved by the council prior to William going missing, I totally agree with you. How on earth would you cope with a husband going to work each day, you being a stay-at-home mum all day with tradesman in the house, making noise and mess. And that was a large renovation so would have taken some time. The trades would have been in and out of the house. Would they have had to hide all of Williams's photos to protect their privacy and Williams sisters?

I have always found it odd to move forward with the renovations for this reason but also have found the FFC to sound too calm and collected in all of the interviews. I am not saying it means that she is guilty of anything for that reason, just saying it doesn't sit with me right.