Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #69

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I think that's what he did too; and that FGM's car was in or just outside the garage, accessed by the other driveway down the hill.

The slip up moment, is the the FFC goes to MFC on arrival in his vehicle "Is William With You?" However in the MFC walk through video he says he comes out of the carport to see both FFC and FGM still sitting on the back deck.


All 3 of them couldn't get their story straight it should've been an immediate red flag.
 
Those are not quotes from her, though. They are the journalists' editorialising in the articles (and one of them implies outside cupboards by saying "raced around the house looking in cupboards and the bush"). I have not heard or seen her say in an official quote (such as her police statement) that she looked inside the house, and the early statements specifically lacked any reference to looking inside.

It was inquest testimony, in both articles.

William Tyrrell's foster mother has continued to give evidence about the harrowing moment when she first realised the toddler was missing .....
‘Somebody has taken him’: William Tyrrell’s foster mother shares grief over loss of three-year-old

William Tyrrell’s foster mother has cried while telling a New South Wales coroner .....
William Tyrrell inquest: foster mother recalls seeing two cars the morning he disappeared
 

Is there something in particular that I should be looking for in the link? Some specific reference point (about arguments given that revealing William's care status could help the investigation)?

From what I have read there, the judge in the appeal found no error in the initial judge's words on that subject.

(Points 59 & 60 of the Judgement part of the Court of Appeal judgement you linked.)
 
Which still in my view means if she had left after FF got home she would have taken their car, not her mother's. (Not that I am responding to you on this, just following on from my other post on the matter in that my analysis is that she went for the drive before FF returned home.)

Why the need to even drive anywhere? This is a 3 year old child, who supposedly has only been missing for a very short time, so he couldn't be too far away - my reaction would be to run/walk down the road, calling out his name, and searching behind scrubs/trees and looking in peoples' yards for him.
 
I'm thinking that -

FFC was not there when MFC returned from meeting.

And this was the omission - allowing people to assume that she was there when he came back from his meeting. So even though both omitting to say this - however the FFC is the one who is the POI.

MOO
 
Why the need to even drive anywhere? This is a 3 year old child, who supposedly has only been missing for a very short time, so he couldn't be too far away - my reaction would be to run/walk down the road, calling out his name, and searching behind scrubs/trees and looking in peoples' yards for him.
Oh, totally agree. I find it bizarre. An adult on foot should be able to outpace a three year old quite easily over a period of time and he hadn't been gone for that long. I'm not even sure he could have made it that distance in that time, and he would not have been knowing where he was heading anyway so why that place?
 
One of my problems with the FM's story is that I have to do so much mental gymnastics to make it fit. In every situation I can think of involving someone in a criminal case, where they have been innocent of wrongdoing, I can reasonably easily understand why they would have behaved the way they did. Sometimes it is exactly what I would do and other times it is different but still relatable. Occasionally I will have to do mental gymnastics on one or two things out of half a dozen or a dozen. I certainly don't expect someone to behave exactly as I would because we are different people. But in this instance I have trouble with almost everything. While each individual item can be explained, it paints a different picture when every single thing requires a laborious justification. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts, so to speak.

1. The certainty that William was only gone for 5 minutes. I don't see how anyone could be certain of that under the circumstances, and I'd be saying "I'm not sure; it could have been longer." I don't understand why someone would stick to that timeframe with such adamance when it might make all the difference in an investigation.

2. Not checking the house or dispatching FGM to check the house and not mentioning that the house had not been checked. Yes he disappeared outside, but it would be a normal reaction for me to check the house itself in case he had somehow gone back inside and injured himself, particularly given the belief that he was not a wanderer.

3. Not contacting her husband. If a child went missing on me I would be contacting my husband immediately, not waiting for him to return. Certainly under the circumstances when he texted "Home in 5 minutes", I'd be texting him back, "Is William with you?" if that's where my head had bizarrely gone at that moment.

4. Going for a drive to a specific place that was a hard ask distance-wise for a child in the time he went missing (and which, given his age he would not have directionally understood how to walk to). I am not sure I understand even going for a drive at that early stage, but even if I stretch it to that, I can see a general drive looking for him, not heading to one particular place like that.

5. Hearing a scream and not running to it, imagined or not, or frantically sending someone to check. That one I can't get over. There was no urgency consistent with panic.

6. Believing someone has taken him almost immediately, given the environment in which they were. At the point at which she claims she thought that, even factoring in him not being a wanderer, the likelihood was far greater that he had strolled somewhere and injured himself. Kids do crazy and unpredictable things and easily have their attention diverted by items of interest.

7. Not checking on his sister and ensuring she was with an adult. If I've had a child go missing, I am obsessive about where the other one is. Her whereabouts is practically never mentioned. We have all these adults running around searching so who was keeping an eye on her and where was the concern for her welfare?

8. Nobody else on that street saw the cars she claimed she did, despite people noticing things out of place on a street like that and it being a time of morning when many people would have been moving around going to work, taking kids to school etc. These cars were supposedly there for a considerable period of time. She didn't mention it to anyone in the morning, despite claiming she knew it was odd at the time, and it didn't prompt her to be more protective of the children.

Yes, I can explain each of these individually, but it is a stretch to do even that, let alone when I realise that I'm having to work hard to explain so many. There are also inconsistencies in the explanations: some are explainable by panic, but others are explained by a lack of panic.

And then I assess the abduction theories and I struggle with the primary one. There are two possible abduction theories: one that involved some level of pre-meditation and one that was entirely opportunistic. The primary one is that it was a pre-meditated abduction and yet this seems fanciful to me.

One individual from an extremely small group of people who knew William was at his FGMs place either takes that information themselves and formulates a plan to abduct him or shares that information with someone who then formulates a plan to abduct him. This person or persons is/are willing to park on a country suburban street where people notice unusual things, in broad daylight at a time when people are moving around going to work and school, on the off-chance that they may have an opportunity to abduct a child. They face a high likelihood of being seen, may have to wait for hours, and may never have an opportunity.

When said opportunity presents itself, despite it being impossible for them to know that they couldn't be seen from one of the houses or even that William wasn't in view of his carers from a window, they are brazen enough to take the child. They manage to spot the opportunity, take account of the circumstances and grab or lure him in the space of a few minutes. Because this is pre-meditated, they have confidence they will get away with this.

It's all very well to say in hindsight that they did get away with it, but the crucial thing is that they have to have believed they would at the time. It doesn't make sense to me that a person who was apparently calculating would see this as a viable opportunity that was low enough risk to attempt. Even if I adjust some of the moving parts to account for various slight differences, it still comes back to the fact that a person planning to do this or calculating the risks would not have seen it as viable. In my view it has to be someone who did not even think about anything because the moment they thought about it the moment it loses its viability.

The other theory is that this was an entirely opportunistic abduction. A person with the pre-disposition to take a child happened upon the street at the exact time that William was on his own. They didn't intend to take a child but suddenly there he was and they acted on impulse without thought of difficulty or consequences. This one is more realistic to me, because it does away with the need for any sort of assessment on their part, which is the most problematic component to me of the other abduction theory.

The challenge I face with this one is is that a lack of any thought also means this person had no idea what they were going to do with William, either. I can suspend this to a point, however, because if they weren't thinking then, applying the same logic as before, they didn't care what they were going to do with him and it could be just "lucky" (I hate that word in this circumstance) that they ultimately got away with it. As the situation intensified what they decided to do could have evolved because they were reactive and impulsive rather calculating.

So two theories: FM involved or random abduction. And when I look at the likelihood, the former stands out to a far greater degree.

1. She did actually say it could have been longer than 5 mins " it could be 5, it could be longer "

2. She did check the house.

3. She knew the MFC would be back around 10:30. Her immediate priority was finding William.

4. She had searched the immediate area, than the most logical thing IMO to do was branch out & take a drive. She had a choice to turn Lt or Rt @ Batar Creek RD, turned Rt.

5. There was urgency, she than went back to the house & called 000 after looking in the reeds / drains.

6. I guess she had in the back of her mind that William had been hidden in the past by the bio family.

7. The FGM was with William's sister the whole time.

I don't think anyone can say what they would do if faced with this situation themselves, you might "think" you know what you would do , but in reality you cannot know for sure IMO
 
Oh, totally agree. I find it bizarre. An adult on foot should be able to outpace a three year old quite easily over a period of time and he hadn't been gone for that long. I'm not even sure he could have made it that distance in that time, and he would not have been knowing where he was heading anyway so why that place?
Unless she knows it was well over 5 minutes and she's minimizing the event . . . break it to MFC slowly because he'll go beserk.
 
I'm thinking that -

FFC was not there when MFC returned from meeting.

And this was the omission - allowing people to assume that she was there when he came back from his meeting. So even though both omitting to say this - however the FFC is the one who is the POI.

MOO
That's a good theory that the police could have evidence to support, and it certainly fits with why they have both been charged but FM is the POI. Well spotted. It would certainly change the entire complexion of what was going on as well.
 
Why the need to even drive anywhere? This is a 3 year old child, who supposedly has only been missing for a very short time, so he couldn't be too far away - my reaction would be to run/walk down the road, calling out his name, and searching behind scrubs/trees and looking in peoples' yards for him.

These are big blocks, after searching the immediate area , the logical thing would be to get in the car & drive , unless you have been to Benaroon drive, I don't think people realise the distance , & the quickest way was to drive IMO
 
Unless she knows it was well over 5 minutes and she's minimizing the event . . . break it to MFC slowly because he'll go beserk.
I think the only realistic explanation is that it was well over five minutes (in that I mean something like 20 minutes, not something like 7 minutes). None of the theories make much sense if it was only five minutes.

But I still don't know why you would go for a short, specific drive rather than for a general drive to look around the area broadly, and especially before you searched the immediate vicinity on foot.

Also, why did she go for a drive to look before letting FF know what was going on? If she didn't know how long she would be she could have been out when he returned. That part of the story I specifically struggle with: her lack of communication with FF, which is especially stark when she was making a decision to leave the house. If she thought William may have wandered that far, wouldn't she at least be texting him to say, "William's disappeared. Keep an eye out for him on your drive back?"
 
But I still don't know why you would go for a short, specific drive rather than for a general drive to look around the area broadly, and especially before you searched the immediate vicinity on foot.
I think her explanation on that makes sense. She didn't find him close to home and then she changed her mind on what was the priority. Wherever you drive your location is somewhere specific. What do you mean by a general drive: in a loop?
 
If you think someone has just taken him, yes you would get in the car
I remember my sister when she went missing. People took cars, people thought she would have only walked …. I think you very quickly want to cover all possibilities for a sudden unexplained disappearance. My sister was found, so much further away then one would expect and she even as a cautious child crossed a very busy road..we can’t explain any of it.
 
I think her explanation on that makes sense. She didn't find him close to home and then she changed her mind on what was the priority. Wherever you drive your location is somewhere specific. What do you mean by a general drive: in a loop?
I mean that you'd think of a distance (eg 5km or whatever distance you think a child could walk in the timeframe at an absolute stretch) and drive out to that point and all the points that distance from the house looking for him. You'd go up multiple roads, not just one way, loop back around to Albert St and Cobb & Co Rd in case he'd somehow gotten himself over there on foot.
 
I mean that you'd think of a distance (eg 5km or whatever distance you think a child could walk in the timeframe at an absolute stretch) and drive out to that point and all the points that distance from the house looking for him. You'd go up multiple roads, not just one way, loop back around to Albert St and Cobb & Co Rd in case he'd somehow gotten himself over there on foot.
William wandered
 
I mean that you'd think of a distance (eg 5km or whatever distance you think a child could walk in the timeframe at an absolute stretch) and drive out to that point and all the points that distance from the house looking for him. You'd go up multiple roads, not just one way, loop back around to Albert St and Cobb & Co Rd in case he'd somehow gotten himself over there on foot.
Meanwhile he could have gone cross-country and fallen in a dam. Such a lot of ground missed if you stick to the roads. You need an army of searchers. You're in shock and you don't know what to do first.
 
1. She did actually say it could have been longer than 5 mins " it could be 5, it could be longer "

2. She did check the house.

3. She knew the MFC would be back around 10:30. Her immediate priority was finding William.

4. She had searched the immediate area, than the most logical thing IMO to do was branch out & take a drive. She had a choice to turn Lt or Rt @ Batar Creek RD, turned Rt.

5. There was urgency, she than went back to the house & called 000 after looking in the reeds / drains.

6. I guess she had in the back of her mind that William had been hidden in the past by the bio family.

7. The FGM was with William's sister the whole time.

I don't think anyone can say what they would do if faced with this situation themselves, you might "think" you know what you would do , but in reality you cannot know for sure IMO
Absolutely
 
I remember my sister when she went missing. People took cars, people thought she would have only walked …. I think you very quickly want to cover all possibilities for a sudden unexplained disappearance. My sister was found, so much further away then one would expect and she even as a cautious child crossed a very busy road..we can’t explain any of it.
How old?
 
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