Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #70

[k-mac]

All it takes is for one perspective to be looking at and deciding the relevance to a case a piece of evidence.
It really isn't unbelievable that someone looking at that cctv originally was feeling unwell that day...distracted....biased....just going through the motions....
boom vital clues missed?

I am sure it happens day after day after day.
Fresh eyes at everything is always a good thing.

 

[SleepyJoe]

Someone shared with me an interesting article:

Generalising the Cinderella Effect to unintentional childhood fatalities
May 2006Evolution and Human Behavior 27(3)
DOI:10.1016/j.evolhumbehav.2005.10.001
Authors:
Greg Tooley
Deakin University
Mari Karakis
Mark Stokes
Deakin University
Joan Ozanne-Smith
Monash University (Australia)


We investigated whether the repeatedly demonstrated increase in risk of child abuse and infanticide associated with living with a step parent generalized to cases of unintentional childhood fatal injury, the most common cause of death in children across the developed world. Reports were drawn from the Australian National Coroners' Information System (NCIS) on all cases of intentionally (n = 32) and unintentionally (n = 319) produced fatal injury in children aged under 5 years between 2000 and 2003. Even when using the most conservative possible analytic approach, in which all cases in which family type was unclear were classified as being from an dintact biological familyT, step children under 5 years of age were found to be at significantly increased risk of unintentional fatal injury of any type, and of drowning in particular. Children from single-parented families were generally not found to be at significantly increased risk of intentional or unintentional fatal injury, while children who lived with neither of their biological parents were at greatest risk overall for fatal injury of any type.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228514268_Generalising_the_Cinderella_Effect_to_unintentional_childhood_fatalities

 

[SouthAussie]

I agree. From being obsessed with true crime for decades now, I've learnt not to put much weight on witness statements.

I don't dismiss them entirely and these witnesses could well be correct. But unless they had direct interaction with the children I don't think it's reliable.

A recent example I can give is from only last week.

My neighbour is a personal trainer. We've both lived in this street for over 10 years. I was training with her in her garage and we both heard a baby crying somewhere in the street. Her house is at the end of the culdesac. I thought it was coming from down the street. She was concerned it was her own baby from inside her house.

Eventually we worked out it wasn't a baby crying but part of the music we had playing in the background.

If she didn't have a baby of her own, we wouldn't have been interested in determining where the cry was coming from.

If it later turned out that a baby had gone missing that day or a baby had been killed or someone in our street was suspected of taking a baby, I'm sure both of us would have been absolutely adamant we heard a baby crying.

So you and a friend were inside (a garage) and both heard the same sound ... coming from the radio. Which you mistook for a baby.

PS was outside on his verandah and heard children playing.

JW was outside her house prior to running some errands, and heard children playing.

I wonder what sound they could have heard (at the exact same times or at differing times, we don't know which) that sounded like children playing at #48?



The only thing I was able to tell police was that I heard the children playing but didn’t see them … I just heard kids laughing and you could tell they were little children,” Mrs Wilson said.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/toddler-william-tyrrells-disappearance-still-haunts-kendall-residents-almost-a-year-later/news-story/03fb14d003bfb73d3c193b5f6731f74c

 

[Mauig’ma]

There seems to be so many inconsistencies in their stories - The FGM is asked in the video, "when he went around the corner of the house, could you still hear him?.. was he still playing tiger" and she responds "no, no, no".

I'm not sure if my memory is correct, but I thought the FFC stated that they could hear him roaring around outside.

I caught this as well. And if she didn’t hear him wouldn’t a person’s first reaction be to run around the corner and find out why you can’t hear him?

 

[k-mac]

Someone shared with me an interesting article:

Generalising the Cinderella Effect to unintentional childhood fatalities
May 2006Evolution and Human Behavior 27(3)
DOI:10.1016/j.evolhumbehav.2005.10.001
Authors:
Greg Tooley
Deakin University
Mari Karakis
Mark Stokes
Deakin University
Joan Ozanne-Smith
Monash University (Australia)


We investigated whether the repeatedly demonstrated increase in risk of child abuse and infanticide associated with living with a step parent generalized to cases of unintentional childhood fatal injury, the most common cause of death in children across the developed world. Reports were drawn from the Australian National Coroners' Information System (NCIS) on all cases of intentionally (n = 32) and unintentionally (n = 319) produced fatal injury in children aged under 5 years between 2000 and 2003. Even when using the most conservative possible analytic approach, in which all cases in which family type was unclear were classified as being from an dintact biological familyT, step children under 5 years of age were found to be at significantly increased risk of unintentional fatal injury of any type, and of drowning in particular. Children from single-parented families were generally not found to be at significantly increased risk of intentional or unintentional fatal injury, while children who lived with neither of their biological parents were at greatest risk overall for fatal injury of any type.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228514268_Generalising_the_Cinderella_Effect_to_unintentional_childhood_fatalities

But a boogie man in the bushes in a little country town on a street of acreages at the crack of dawn sounds far more tangible though.right?

 

[SleepyJoe]

It is not a stretch at all to imagine that William may have been the subject of some violence or abuse. It sounds like William was difficult to manage (the recent media report of hitting and biting). I am speculating that MFC was getting a medication for mood as FGM relayed that he seemed particularly keen to get the script ASAP (pure speculation at this stage). He certainly seem a bit agitated that morning and there were reports he had been bothered by the noise of the children and wanted to go somewhere quiet for his online meeting (this has been discussed numerous times here). Both former FCs were inexperienced parents. We also know that FFC was not coping with William's behaviour. This is all adding up to look like a high-risk and volatile situation (possibly and JMO). Given that William was a foster child, and the study that I just shared has said that fatal injuries are more common in children not living with biological parents, I think it is very possible that something happened to William that fateful morning while in the care of the FCs. And this scenario is more likely than the vanishingly rare chance of a random stranger abduction in such an out-of-the-way location. This is all JMO, but I think we really need to seriously consider that Strike Force Rosann are on the right track. I just hope that, if this is indeed what happened, that justice is served, because William’s disappearance and likely death ruined (or at least seriously negatively impacted) a lot of people's lives, including LT's, the biological parents (it has been reported that the BF descended into terrible drug addiction due to grief), and the Speddings, just to name a few. It is time the truth came out.

 

[Doesitmakesense]

So you and a friend were inside (a garage) and both heard the same sound ... coming from the radio. Which you mistook for a baby.

PS was outside on his verandah and heard children playing.

JW was outside her house prior to running some errands, and heard children playing.

I wonder what sound they could have heard (at the exact same times or at differing times, we don't know which) that sounded like children playing at #48?



The only thing I was able to tell police was that I heard the children playing but didn’t see them … I just heard kids laughing and you could tell they were little children,” Mrs Wilson said.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/toddler-william-tyrrells-disappearance-still-haunts-kendall-residents-almost-a-year-later/news-story/03fb14d003bfb73d3c193b5f6731f74c

A children's show playing on a TV could have two neighbors thinking they heard the same thing. My mum asks me why the kids are at home when they are not because I still have the children's channel on all the time

 

[k-mac]

It is not a stretch at all to imagine that William may have been the subject of some violence or abuse. It sounds like William was difficult to manage (the recent media report of hitting and biting). I am speculating that MFC was getting a medication for mood has FGM relayed that he seemed particularly keen to get the script ASAP (pure speculation at this stage). He certainly seem a bit agitated that morning and there were reports he had been bothered by the noise of the children and wanted to go somewhere quiet for his online meeting (this has been discussed numerous times here). Both former FCs were inexperienced parents. We also know that FFC was not coping with William's behaviour. Given that William was a foster child, and the study that I just shared has said that fatal injuries are more common in children not living with biological parents, I think it is very possible that something happened to William that fateful morning while in the care of the FCs. And this scenario is more likely than the vanishingly rare chance of a random stranger abduction in such an out-of-the-way location. This is all JMO, but I think we really need to seriously consider that Strike Force Rosann are on the right track. I just hope, that if this is indeed what happen, that justice is served, because William’s disappearance and likely death ruined a lot of people's lives, including LT's, the biological parents (it has been reported that the BF descended into terrible drug addiction due to grief), and the Speddings, just to name a few. It is time the truth came out.

Sleepy joe this is so logical and realisitic thank you for this post.

I agree 100% with every thing you hit on.

The resources and expense that have gone into this as a side note....is so damn maddening.
For selfish people to cover up their own messes.

Things are getting close. We are being drip fed a very digestable scenario by the powers that be.

moo

 

[SouthAussie]

A children's show playing on a TV could have two neighbors thinking they heard the same thing. My mum asks me why the kids are at home when they are not because I still have the children's channel on all the time

They both had the habit of listening to the same children's show each day (or on Fridays) while they were outside their homes? I don't think either of them had young children at home any more.

Seems really unlikely to me.

We found out due to the secret recordings that PS was in the habit of listening to Ray Hadley (the show is Mon-Fri 9-12).
And PS said that morning he was listening to Ray Hadley when AMS knocked on his door.

 

[Doesitmakesense]

They both had the habit of listening to the same children's show each day (or on Fridays) while they were outside their homes? I don't think either of them had young children at home any more.

Seems really unlikely to me.

We found out due to the secret recordings that PS was in the habit of listening to Ray Hadley (the show is Mon-Fri 9-12).

I was more thinking something on the FGM TV that both neighbors could hear, cause if they can hear children, then why not a TV

 

[SouthAussie]

I was more thinking something on the FGM TV that both neighbors could hear, cause if they can hear children, then why not a TV

Because FGM's TV was inside the house, and the children were playing outside.

 

[k-mac]

I was more thinking something on the FGM TV that both neighbors could hear, cause if they can hear children, then why not a TV

She may also have heard lively frantic chatter between GRANDMA and ffc.
From a distance hearing voices maybe upset high pitch frantic could sound like kids playing.
Seeing how agititated grandma was talking to police under the pump, she is quite edgey.

or she imagined it.
Not really provable either way.

 

[Awakening]

So you and a friend were inside (a garage) and both heard the same sound ... coming from the radio. Which you mistook for a baby.

PS was outside on his verandah and heard children playing.

JW was outside her house prior to running some errands, and heard children playing.

I wonder what sound they could have heard (at the exact same times or at differing times, we don't know which) that sounded like children playing at #48?



The only thing I was able to tell police was that I heard the children playing but didn’t see them … I just heard kids laughing and you could tell they were little children,” Mrs Wilson said.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/toddler-william-tyrrells-disappearance-still-haunts-kendall-residents-almost-a-year-later/news-story/03fb14d003bfb73d3c193b5f6731f74c

They could have heard children playing that day. But how it could be determined without a doubt that it was LT & WT is beyond me. But perhaps police know more on this.

I don't know when these neighbours stated they heard kids playing. Did they say so hours or days later?

There were other children on that street. FM herself mistook a bird cry for WT. They could have the wrong day or the wrong time.

Or they could be correct and did in fact hear WT & LT.

But for me personally I don't give it a load of significance because imo they could both have been mistaken.

Just like I think FGM could have the time that FF left wrong.

I don't conclude by the neighbours statement well that's 100% confirmed then. LT & WT were definitely there.

And I don't conclude that FF & FM are clearly lying because their statements conflict with FGM's.

Both those things could be put down to mistakes, but both are interesting.

 

[JLZ]

I was more thinking something on the FGM TV that both neighbors could hear, cause if they can hear children, then why not a TV

I can hear my neighbour's child playing when I'm outside and she's outside, but I've never heard their television. That house is less than 10m away, not 100m as with FGM's neighbours.

 

[k-mac]

I can hear my neighbour's child playing when I'm outside and she's outside, but I've never heard their television. That house is less than 10m away, not 100m as with FGM's neighbours.

This conversation is proof of why the witness account is unreliable.
Interpretation of sound is very fluid and different to everybody. IMO

 

[seekingjustice**]

DAY WILLIAM VANISHES
Friday, 12 September, 2019, Benaroon Drive, Kendall:

7-7.30am: Foster mother wakes in room with William’s sister and hears William playing in the next room. She and the girl try to go back to sleep, but can’t.

8am: William and his sister wake up the foster grandmother.

William insists on wearing his SpiderMan suit from Bali, pulls out all his toys from the bedroom he has been sharing with the foster father and starts playing in the lounge room.

The foster father, foster grandmother and William’s sister are in front of the foster mother, while William is behind her.

The foster father gets frustrated with all the noise.

8.30am: Late breakfast of toast, eggs and Weet-Bix.

9.03am: Foster mother rings washing machine repairman for 38 seconds, the call going to messages.

The children play with the bikes kept at the property and race up the driveway, William deliberately crashing his into the garden.

Between 9am and 9.30am: Foster father leaves Benaroon Drive for Laurieton township to buy prescription drugs from pharmacy and conduct business call via Skype.

William and his sister draw pictures and roll dice on the verandah of the house, William rolling ‘the dice very hard” and “jumping out of his skin with energy”.

The foster mother photographs William for the last time. He is “roaring” in a tiger game on the verandah.

William gets bored and runs down from the verandah onto the grass.

It is now after 10am, probably between 10.10am and 10.30am.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/missing-boy-william-tyrrells-doomed-life/news-story/38baa59f1db54e441f01cc11a6af6eba

Maybe she forgot that they ate Weet-Bix. The article you quoted - "8.30am: Late breakfast of toast, eggs and Weet-Bix.

Foster Grandma - "We all had scrambled eggs, orange juice, toast and everybody was very happy"

 

[Akai]

So you and a friend were inside (a garage) and both heard the same sound ... coming from the radio. Which you mistook for a baby.

PS was outside on his verandah and heard children playing.

JW was outside her house prior to running some errands, and heard children playing.

I wonder what sound they could have heard (at the exact same times or at differing times, we don't know which) that sounded like children playing at #48?



The only thing I was able to tell police was that I heard the children playing but didn’t see them … I just heard kids laughing and you could tell they were little children,” Mrs Wilson said.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/toddler-william-tyrrells-disappearance-still-haunts-kendall-residents-almost-a-year-later/news-story/03fb14d003bfb73d3c193b5f6731f74c

I would like to know how they were so certain it was children, plural, and not A child if they didn't see them. I also don't recall them specifying that these sounds definitely came from #48.

 

[LIBPOP]

Re the deletion of SMS over the 6 week period by the MFC (Bombshell documents lift lid on William Tyrrell mystery), this only raises suspicion for me if (a) the FFC also deleted the same messages for this time period; and (b) no other SMS were deleted in that time period (ie. this wasn’t about saving mobile phone hard drive which was an issue in 2014).

 

[LIBPOP]

I would like to know how they were so certain it was children, plural, and not A child if they didn't see them. I also don't recall them specifying that these sounds definitely came from #48.

I also wonder about when these witness statements were taken, and if the suggestion had already been given to the neighbours re 9.37am proof of life photos. Memory is truly an unreliable thing. And were other children playing on the street during this time.

 

[SouthAussie]

I also wonder about when these witness statements were taken, and if the suggestion had already been given to the neighbours re 9.37am proof of life photos. Memory is truly an unreliable thing. And were other children playing on the street during this time.

No, there were not other children playing on the street at the time. LH's youngest child was the only one home at that time (and was inside) ... the H's lived at the other end of the road.

Between 9 and 9:30am the school aged children were already at school.


“That’s pretty good luck. Especially at 10.30am on a Friday when there should only be one kid on the street, which is mine.”

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/toddler-william-tyrrells-disappearance-still-haunts-kendall-residents-almost-a-year-later/news-story/03fb14d003bfb73d3c193b5f6731f74c