Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #70

[FromGermany1]

thanks for the direct link jbowie.

I don't like the grandmother saying and he was 'full of life' and thats the last time I seen him as he went around the corner.
It sends my hinky metre off the charts.

She also accidently says the 3 of us having brekkie...I know and appreciate it is very easy to mispeak but at that critical moment.....she could have also been unconsciously remembering a fact.

the page of concerning issues here is becoming a book.

bbm
Did she mean herself plus the two kids?? Where were the foster parents at this time, and why was she, the not so familiar grandmother, alone with the two kids, although one of them had had already his behavior issues in the early morning (when FFC wanted him to get dressed with something, he didn't like)? The family had visited FGM's home the last time, when the grandfather had his funeral in February (?). If she wasn't a guest in Sydney several times, little William didn't know FGM very well, one can assume.

 

[FromGermany1]

She didn’t blame the bio parents. She was just saying that Williams behaviour wasn’t great after seeing them. IMO because these visits were not regular and not very long he was very confused by the whole thing. That is why he could be acting out.There is nothing to suggest William said he wanted to go back to his mother, same with his sister. There was nothing “foreign” about his home environment with the fosters. He was in their care longer than he was the bios

Afaik, along the last meeting/visit with his bio mother little William wasn't allowed (by the FP) farther to name his bio mother "mummy". It seems to be a very inappropriate time to demand this from a 3 year old with some big issues, he had anyway. THAT would have confused him even more, poor boy. IMO

 

[Sillybilly]

Could be over-thinking here. It's been known to happen but ...

In the walk-through with the FGM, starting around :20, she says "I was (very or fairly??) late getting up but I did hear people in the kitchen, and I think that was ****** getting his coffee and getting .. I knew he had to go early. I knew he wanted to go to Lakewood chemist to get some tablets. And I heard later, ****** told me later that he'd be some time because he had to have an, uh, an online conversation to do with work (at this point, whatever the wired device is in her left ear, she reaches toward it, whether adjusting it or scratching her ear?? Up to this point, the investigator has held her notes against her body, but this is the only time in the video that I see her make a note) ... conference to do with work".

Which was it? She "heard" later or "****** told me later"?

So ****** was already getting his coffee before she got up and before breakfast happened (7:30ish as per timeline). Who prepared breakfast? She then says "the 3 of us .. the 4 of us, the 2 children and myself, we had breakfast." She points toward table and says "We sat there at the table and had breakfast. Scrambled eggs, we all had scrambled eggs, orange juice, toast ... and everybody was very happy"

Why the confusion as to how many sat down to breakfast (7:30ish as per timeline). If it was 3, who were the 3 and who was not having breakfast? If it was 4, who were those 4? Either way, who did not attend breakfast if it was 7:30ish? Did ****** have coffee and leave before breakfast? Also, the description of breakfast sounded like a bit of filler going on there.

 

[Doesitmakesense]

With FGM 3 at breakfast comment. My mind keeps going to FGM, FM & LT having breakfast, with FF & WT already leaving in the car. MO

 

[SleepyJoe]

Does he know where to dispose of his pullup in FGM's house? What if he isn't just wet?

This was exactly my thought. It is reasonable to get a 3 yo to take off his pull-ups and put some undies on, HOWEVER, the poor kid was in an unfamiliar environment, probably didn't know where everything was, including his fresh undies and the the bin he was supposed to use put the dirty nappy in. He would have needed some adult assistance in all of this process (and surely a little wipe down/ clean after being in a wet nappy).

 

[SleepyJoe]

I found this passage in today's article quite disturbing.

"At that point, 727 questions into the interview Jubelin interrupts and asks the foster father if William might not have 'hurt himself accidentally' and the foster mother and grandmother 'panicked and covered it up with fear of losing' the family's other child.

The foster father says, 'never likely' and 'no way' and apparently starts laughing because Jubelin asks, 'so you're laughing at it and dismissing it'"

I don't know why you would literally be laughing at anything to do with a child being missing, presumed dead. It's one thing to say it is "laughable" quite another to actually laugh at something.

Yes I was taken aback at that too. Laughing at that question is definitely concerning.

 

[SleepyJoe]

anyone on here decent at reading body language?

i find the FGM’s body language highly attention grabbing. The part when she mentions the FF leaving the house, her hands are clasped by her waste, but she’s almost white knuckling. From my understanding this can be the actions of someone who is feeling vulnerable pretending to be confident. Also, as she stumbles and says the “3 of us“ comment, her hands instantly drop below her waist and she begins to fidget with her fingers Quite badly, she can barely keep them still!

Another thing when she leads the police officer outside, she says “and this is where it all happened”. I find that strange, where what all happened? Just them playing and William disappeared?

And finally, then ending just blows my mind! “he Was so full of life, full of energy. Bouncing out of his skull with happiness, and just joy of living”.

she also clasps her hands and fidgets here as well!

the bouncing of the skull part really peaks my interest!

all of this is MOO and Of course IMO only! I am no expert but would like the know opinions others?

House where William Tyrrell spent final hours before going missing

I'm not an expert at body language, but I immediately picked up her obvious anxiety. Her hands flutter all over the place, she wrings her hands, she plays with her pants, her vocal pitch is raised. As to what all that anxiety indicates, I don't know. And her description of William "bouncing out of his skull" is very odd. Was that perhaps a Freudian slip?!

 

[SleepyJoe]

I can't understand a word, she says, much to fast for me. What I noticed though, was: she was very agile in her movements, not a woman affected by illness (leg/knee/hips - whatever).

I agree, she seems a well, independent older person, albeit recovering from an upper respiratory tract infection, but otherwise of sound mind and physical ability.

 

[SouthAussie]

Could be over-thinking here. It's been known to happen but ...

In the walk-through with the FGM, starting around :20, she says "I was (very or fairly??) late getting up but I did hear people in the kitchen, and I think that was ****** getting his coffee and getting .. I knew he had to go early. I knew he wanted to go to Lakewood chemist to get some tablets. And I heard later, ****** told me later that he'd be some time because he had to have an, uh, an online conversation to do with work (at this point, whatever the wired device is in her left ear, she reaches toward it, whether adjusting it or scratching her ear?? Up to this point, the investigator has held her notes against her body, but this is the only time in the video that I see her make a note) ... conference to do with work".

Which was it? She "heard" later or "****** told me later"?

So ****** was already getting his coffee before she got up and before breakfast happened (7:30ish as per timeline). Who prepared breakfast? She then says "the 3 of us .. the 4 of us, the 2 children and myself, we had breakfast." She points toward table and says "We sat there at the table and had breakfast. Scrambled eggs, we all had scrambled eggs, orange juice, toast ... and everybody was very happy"

Why the confusion as to how many sat down to breakfast (7:30ish as per timeline). If it was 3, who were the 3 and who was not having breakfast? If it was 4, who were those 4? Either way, who did not attend breakfast if it was 7:30ish? Did ****** have coffee and leave before breakfast? Also, the description of breakfast sounded like a bit of filler going on there.

I would suggest that FM was probably cooking the breakfast, while 3 then 4 of them sat down to eat. With perhaps FD in the shower and/or prepping for his online meeting.
I recall at one point FM told him to just go and get ready and leave the children to her.

Because ......

"Mr Savage, who lived across the road from the house where William was playing, said he was sitting on his verandah with his toast and tea between 9am and 9.30am when he heard children playing."

Elderly neighbour tells Tyrrell inquest he remembers 'hearing the kids'

Paul Savage lived across the road from the house where the three-year-old was playing the day he disappeared.

7news.com.au

And .......

"Minutes later, William and his sister were riding their bicycles in the property’s driveway, when a car drove past, did a U-turn in a neighbour’s driveway and drove off.
Around this time, Judy Wilson, whose property was just metres from William’s grandmother’s yard, heard the two children playing before she took off to run errands in town."

https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/the-day-william-tyrrell-vanished/news-story/c3b76e8d4fc18401ebc17df61f45a62d

Any which way we tip this and shake it out, we can't get away from the fact that two different close neighbours heard the children playing between 9am and 9:30am. imo

 

[Serenanicole]

Very weird. "House where William spent his final before going missing" (I guess they omitted the word hours in that sentence).

No mention that it was a bit of the walkthrough with FGM.

It is interesting watching the police officer work.
Never saying anything like "8am? Are you sure?" No power of suggestion used anywhere.
Nothing to make a person think they might have been mistaken, or that the timing does not align with the pings (if they had that data yet), CCTV, proof from the chemist, or other witness statements.
Good work.

I agree, it was really well done

 

[SleepyJoe]

I'd like to bring up the fFFC's hand injury that is evident during the snippet of her police walkthrough. Do we know whether she was questioned about this in the inquest?

 

[k-mac]

I can't understand a word, she says, much to fast for me. What I noticed though, was: she was very agile in her movements, not a woman affected by illness (leg/knee/hips - whatever).

I thought that too.
She is old enough to be my mother and I could only dream of moving as fast as she does...NOW!
Some folk are just blessed with better genes than others.

 

[k-mac]

bbm
Did she mean herself plus the two kids?? Where were the foster parents at this time, and why was she, the not so familiar grandmother, alone with the two kids, although one of them had had already his behavior issues in the early morning (when FFC wanted him to get dressed with something, he didn't like)? The family had visited FGM's home the last time, when the grandfather had his funeral in February (?). If she wasn't a guest in Sydney several times, little William didn't know FGM very well, one can assume.

she corrected herself to imply ffc was there too.
by saying the 4 of us had brekkie...she was more in a spin to get across the mfc wasnt there and over splaining away his absense.

moo

 

[k-mac]

With FGM 3 at breakfast comment. My mind keeps going to FGM, FM & LT having breakfast, with FF & WT already leaving in the car. MO

yes this is what I think too.
william wasnt there.

my speculation on that frudulent slip.

 

[T-dawg420]

I found this passage in today's article quite disturbing.

"At that point, 727 questions into the interview Jubelin interrupts and asks the foster father if William might not have 'hurt himself accidentally' and the foster mother and grandmother 'panicked and covered it up with fear of losing' the family's other child.

The foster father says, 'never likely' and 'no way' and apparently starts laughing because Jubelin asks, 'so you're laughing at it and dismissing it'"

I don't know why you would literally be laughing at anything to do with a child being missing, presumed dead. It's one thing to say it is "laughable" quite another to actually laugh at something.

One possible reason can be “dupers delight”. I am not saying this here, cos it could just be somebody thinking the question is so far beyond comprehension and reality it makes them laugh as a defence mechanism.

however it would definitely be something to follow up on though if I was asking him the questions IMO

 

[Awakening]

Could be over-thinking here. It's been known to happen but ...

In the walk-through with the FGM, starting around :20, she says "I was (very or fairly??) late getting up but I did hear people in the kitchen, and I think that was ****** getting his coffee and getting .. I knew he had to go early. I knew he wanted to go to Lakewood chemist to get some tablets. And I heard later, ****** told me later that he'd be some time because he had to have an, uh, an online conversation to do with work (at this point, whatever the wired device is in her left ear, she reaches toward it, whether adjusting it or scratching her ear?? Up to this point, the investigator has held her notes against her body, but this is the only time in the video that I see her make a note) ... conference to do with work".

Which was it? She "heard" later or "****** told me later"?

So ****** was already getting his coffee before she got up and before breakfast happened (7:30ish as per timeline). Who prepared breakfast? She then says "the 3 of us .. the 4 of us, the 2 children and myself, we had breakfast." She points toward table and says "We sat there at the table and had breakfast. Scrambled eggs, we all had scrambled eggs, orange juice, toast ... and everybody was very happy"

Why the confusion as to how many sat down to breakfast (7:30ish as per timeline). If it was 3, who were the 3 and who was not having breakfast? If it was 4, who were those 4? Either way, who did not attend breakfast if it was 7:30ish? Did ****** have coffee and leave before breakfast? Also, the description of breakfast sounded like a bit of filler going on there.

I agree, so perhaps I'm over thinking it too!

But it sounds like FGM was expecting FF to only go to the pharmacy and come back and it was only later that FM told her about the meeting.

Perhaps after a period of time FGM asked FM what was taking FF so long?

There's no mention of the paper he was getting for her.

Telling the officer what they had for breakfast and that everyone was very happy seems off. Like its rehearsed.

I could understand the officer asking what everyone ate (to prove FGM witnessed it) and what the mood was like that morning but FGM provides this information without being asked. I'd expect FGM to simply say "and we had breakfast" Seems another example of unnecessary detail.

But perhaps that's her speaking style or the video was edited?

FGM also talks about WT disappearing around the corner but she says this only from her point of view "I saw him go round the corner, I didn't hear him growling after that, it was the last I saw of him"

If FM was sitting on the deck with her then I'd expect FGM to swap the "I" for "we"

Maybe this was when FM was inside making them tea?

 

[Akai]

I would suggest that FM was probably cooking the breakfast, while 3 then 4 of them sat down to eat. With perhaps FD in the shower and/or prepping for his online meeting.
I recall at one point FM told him to just go and get ready and leave the children to her.

Because ......

"Mr Savage, who lived across the road from the house where William was playing, said he was sitting on his verandah with his toast and tea between 9am and 9.30am when he heard children playing."

Elderly neighbour tells Tyrrell inquest he remembers 'hearing the kids'

Paul Savage lived across the road from the house where the three-year-old was playing the day he disappeared.

7news.com.au

And .......

"Minutes later, William and his sister were riding their bicycles in the property’s driveway, when a car drove past, did a U-turn in a neighbour’s driveway and drove off.
Around this time, Judy Wilson, whose property was just metres from William’s grandmother’s yard, heard the two children playing before she took off to run errands in town."

https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/the-day-william-tyrrell-vanished/news-story/c3b76e8d4fc18401ebc17df61f45a62d

Any which way we tip this and shake it out, we can't get away from the fact that two different close neighbours heard the children playing between 9am and 9:30am. imo

I'm not convinced these are accurate, actually. They heard but apparently did not see the children. IMO, sounds can be funny, and there has been a lot of discussion about the way that different sounds works in this case (including in these threads), such as whether people could hear things from one side of the house to the other. It seems to me that they could have heard something or heard A child, and assumed after the fact, when they knew there were two children there, that they had heard both.

 

[Awakening]

DAY WILLIAM VANISHES
Friday, 12 September, 2019, Benaroon Drive, Kendall:

7-7.30am: Foster mother wakes in room with William’s sister and hears William playing in the next room. She and the girl try to go back to sleep, but can’t.

8am: William and his sister wake up the foster grandmother.

William insists on wearing his SpiderMan suit from Bali, pulls out all his toys from the bedroom he has been sharing with the foster father and starts playing in the lounge room.

The foster father, foster grandmother and William’s sister are in front of the foster mother, while William is behind her.

The foster father gets frustrated with all the noise.

8.30am: Late breakfast of toast, eggs and Weet-Bix.

9.03am: Foster mother rings washing machine repairman for 38 seconds, the call going to messages.

The children play with the bikes kept at the property and race up the driveway, William deliberately crashing his into the garden.

Between 9am and 9.30am: Foster father leaves Benaroon Drive for Laurieton township to buy prescription drugs from pharmacy and conduct business call via Skype.

William and his sister draw pictures and roll dice on the verandah of the house, William rolling ‘the dice very hard” and “jumping out of his skin with energy”.

The foster mother photographs William for the last time. He is “roaring” in a tiger game on the verandah.

William gets bored and runs down from the verandah onto the grass.

It is now after 10am, probably between 10.10am and 10.30am.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/missing-boy-william-tyrrells-doomed-life/news-story/38baa59f1db54e441f01cc11a6af6eba

 

[Akai]

With FGM 3 at breakfast comment. My mind keeps going to FGM, FM & LT having breakfast, with FF & WT already leaving in the car. MO

Yes, also because she makes the comment about him leaving around 8am. If he was seen on CCTV at the tennis club around 8:40am (which has been discussed at length here already), given the location of the tennis club is only about 5 minutes away (again discussed at length), then what was he doing for the half hour or so between leaving and between appearing on the tennis club CCTV?

 

[k-mac]

I'm not convinced these are accurate, actually. They heard but apparently did not see the children. IMO, sounds can be funny, and there has been a lot of discussion about the way that different sounds works in this case (including in these threads), such as whether people could hear things from one side of the house to the other. It seems to me that they could have heard something or heard A child, and assumed after the fact, when they knew there were two children there, that they had heard both.

Witness statements and recollections dont hold much weight for me either.
Especially the hearing things not seeing things.

Even then the witness who 'seen'the 2 cars flying around the corner on 2 wheels with a boy in a spiderman suit standing up inthe back of the car yarn at the pub (AHEM...after unidentified amout of bevies+ beers.)......months down the track.
JUST...COME...ON....NOW.

moo