Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #70

[JLZ]

Given the allegations that William was removed partially due to domestic violence happening in the house, he may have been born with a predisposition to anger.

We don't know the root cause of his behaviour.

One speculation is as good as another, in that regard. There are too many causes of childhood outbursts. If there was anything there, William was too young to yet be adequately diagnosed.

imo

Something else to note is that FFC is talking about "the initial period" after William came to them. I suggest that it is perhaps implied, and certainly possible, that things improved afterwards, some time in the course of that roughly twenty months he was with them.

 

[interested64]

Maybe because they feel an abduction happened? We know they were nervous about the BP taking William and hiding him again. They must have heard that whole saga from FACS and been alerted to it. imo

Then later they seemed to understand that the abduction could have happened by a pedo, and their pain was evident in thinking of that (in their televised police interview).

I know that some of us feel that 2nd option is a distinct possibility.

I would like to know things like ... where was FA that morning? (He doesn't remember.)
And did GO have any priors against children? Because he was definitely in Kendall that morning.
And who was this child who was taken 300km away by FA? A deathbed confession seems pretty important.
Who was this ex-taxi driver neighbour Peter? What was he doing? How was he cancelled out from having involvement?

O my gosh I so agree..where is owlman..FA walked every where..did he get a lift with GO and had a hissy and left to walk home..was he walking to meet GO that morning etc...confession yes...why say that if not true...who would make that up...not like may have seen something..he said i gave him and that.. boy a lift...so many unanswered Q .. imo

 

[JBowie]

FA walked every where..

... except when he didn't. I would not believe one word uttered by that despicable excuse for a human being.

 

[interested64]

I would like to know in detail, how the BM handled her little W. She was given only an hour or two monthly of time to meet him, but she never said, he was difficult. She never said, he would be furious with his sister or his brothers. Of course it may very well be, the bio mum had no opportunity at all to tell something about her experiences. BM got viewed as the the only disruptive factor; nobody would have asked her. IMO

I think, little W felt at the wrong place with his FFC and felt handled wrong. If he was furious with his sister, it might be, she got preferred by the FFC, because she was much easier to care for. Little W had a reason to be very jealous perhaps. I can also imagine, in daycare with other children the same problem popped up, maybe even biting and hitting as well as being jealous (in turn with implications for stricter parenting methods at home).
The only bright spot of the day for little W was probably seeing his foster father, who he loved so much. (If it is true, what is being said about their emotional connection.)
It's all so very sad.

He may have had adhd or something to that effect..also BP visits I think we're at places that might be fun for William..imo

 

[LolaAngelina]

From there start I always wondered about the nappy and where is ended up, bin at foster grandmother in the household or wheely bin out side, if so was it collected by police and baged or atleast photographed then possible DNA taken?, if no nappy existed could it show he never made it to Kendall, or was the sister put in a nappy in case any questions over the nappy arise they will hav a full nappy i can't imagine 4 and a half yr old girl needed a nappy unless she has any delays with toilet training maby they used the story she was in one incase there was dna to show its the sisters nappy, you would just assume that police would of tiped out the bins and checked them, just because a child vanished on the property you cant take the foster family lead that he has wonder or been taken by a stranger you you hav to look at that and look at the family, I just wouldn't imagine this situation of lets not look into the family happening in other families whos child disappeared at home you would assume things are surched assume interview done that day even at midnight being forced to not sleep to give an interview i mean its a missing 4yr old and thies people get to go to bed and what not without any formal interview, I hav always suspected he never made it into foster grandmother house but when they released mcdonalds it just shows he made it to Raymond Terrace, why not put the pull ups on at mcdonalds in the car park

As I recall from everything I hav ever read she drove the night he was missing hence I always suspected her but years later I read she whent a different night, days or weeks later, so I was just so confused as I always remember facts and I always thought something was off given the fact she drove the night of the disappearance then it changed to a few days or weeks later, could it hav been two trips to the airport the night of the disappearance then another trip few days/weeks later, so can it now be confirmed she drove the night of the disappearance with her grazed/injured hand? No driving company employed to pick up sister, no taxi, no family asked to do it, foster mother had to be the one and it was the night her child has disappeared?

Sorry, are you suggesting police should have gone to the rubbish and retrieved a wet nappy to test for DNA? It’s never been disputed he made it there and was there that morning. There is only confusion over the time on the camera.

 

[Serenanicole]

He may have had adhd or something to that effect..also BP visits I think we're at places that might be fun for William..imo

But none of this describes how he disappeared

 

[Green beans]

He may have had adhd or something to that effect..also BP visits I think we're at places that might be fun for William..imo

One of my kids has adhd. In my tired experience- Play centres aren’t easier to parent adhd at lol

 

[Megnut]

Maybe the car ride to the airport was all about damage control and narrative manipulation.

As an example (speculating), rehearsing, "remember how Wm went around the corner and roared, and I made tea, and went to look for him? Remember how you were coloring and I was only gone for 5 minutes?"

Did she really leave with the primary two witnesses????? A child and an elderly woman, who IMO wasn't doddy at all. I ask, who pushed the narrative that thst the FGma had memory issues? Bingo.

Her walk-thru video IMO shows a careful recall of detail! Her only confusion, as I see, was her trying to reconcile what she was told happened with what she remembered.

Most significant, I think, is that for a period of time she couldn’t find the FCG.

Why didn't the FCG tell the FGma she was going off in the car to "look for Wm"?

I think the truth is: the FCG left the porch twice and willfully manipulated the memory into once.

A fast-thinking cover up, a desperate act to preserve the "family" of three, because losing that was simply not an option.

JMO

 

[FromGermany1]

Given the allegations that William was removed partially due to domestic violence happening in the house, he may have been born with a predisposition to anger.

We don't know the root cause of his behaviour.

May also and in addition be a reason, yes. Predisposition.

I just heard from an affected friend, that in her wider family there are 2 teens with Asp syndrome (diagnosed) and 2 adults with a sign of the same syndrome (never diagnosed). These 2 adults are able to handle the children with syndrome in a much more sympathetic way than others are able to do, because there is a connection to their inner self probably.

BM and/or BF would have had this connection to little W. perhaps. Doesn't mean, he would have had a better life of course. But perhaps little W. would still be there and alive. - We don't know and will never know.

 

[MissMarpleAU]

I have pondered the same. There was no visual verification of W after his prominent display on FD's shoulders captured on McD's CCTV (other than by members of the foster family). Five photos of W all taken quickly in a row of nothing particularly special, was the proof of life at Benaroon Drive the morning of his disappearance - up until it came into question during the inquest, and that issue for me, is still outstanding, until the coroner releases the findings of the investigation she ordered into that matter, which was publicly known after MSM published it.

For me, it didn't make sense that this seemingly intelligent couple would run the risk of obliterating their entire family at the side of the highway (not sure if it was a ramp or just the regular highway), in darkness, to pull over, presumably take the kids out of the vehicle, remove their pants, put on their pullups (even though – they were 3.25 and 4.5 yrs old - it wasn't like they were now going to drift off to sleep for an 8 hour drive or something). They had JUST visited inside a McDonalds with perfectly good bathroom facilities - surely they could have lasted another couple of hours before another bathroom break?

They picked up the kids from daycare at around 4pm-ish.. the kids were immediately put into the vehicle to start their 4-4.5(?) hour journey... three hours later (est), the fosters are expecting the kids to go to sleep? I could see them going to sleep if they'd commenced their journey at 7pm or 8pm or 9pm, but at 4ish, and being reportedly excited to be going on a trip and to visit with their FGM, and after having been confined in a vehicle already for 2-3 hours - would they be ready for sleep? And this pull-over on the roadway in the dark was so important, why? Leather seats (I’m presuming their Land Rover Discovery had leather) can clean up well, imo.

Is it possible it was prearranged to meet another party at the side of that roadside in the dark, where there were presumably no cameras, to ‘move him on’ to someone? Nobody knew what these people looked like, nor what vehicle they drove (in fact not until the inquest some 4 years later), nor did the public know where they stopped along the way exactly, so very unlikely that someone would report such a potential sighting so far away from FGM's house, imo. This, to me, is one example of how the secrecy surrounding the fosters has greatly hindered this case.

As suspicious as I am of the FM, as a mother myself I don’t question the stop to put on pull-ups. It’s a really long drive up there and Kids fall asleep in cars easily when they have full tummies and it’s getting late. Soaking wet car seats aren’t fun to clean or dry.

 

[MissMarpleAU]

I finally found it! Post #1,172 of the inquest. Yes the drive to the airport was in fact the evening the day he vanished. Moo

Wow wasn’t too distressed or exhausted to drive then, and presumably not on any medication to keep calm that recommends not driving, I guess different people cope with a crisis differently JMO

 

[Mauig’ma]

Wow wasn’t too distressed or exhausted to drive then, and presumably not on any medication to keep calm that recommends not driving, I guess different people cope with a crisis differently JMO

Good point. Imo

 

[T-dawg420]

Wow wasn’t too distressed or exhausted to drive then, and presumably not on any medication to keep calm that recommends not driving, I guess different people cope with a crisis differently JMO

I find it strange as a parent you wouldn’t want to remain in the location where your boy was abducted from for as long as possible in the event that some news broke. Esp in the first 48 hours. Wouldn’t you get someone else to go pick anybody that needed to be picked up? What if you were in the car and W was located?

There could be a few reasons to leave that area though, to get away from everything. To somehow regain control of something when everything else is seemingly out of control, or you know the child wasn’t abducted and not coming back. Imo

 

[Megnut]

I find it strange as a parent you wouldn’t want to remain in the location where your boy was abducted from for as long as possible in the event that some news broke. Esp in the first 48 hours. Wouldn’t you get someone else to go pick anybody that needed to be picked up? What if you were in the car and W was located?

There could be a few reasons to leave that area though, to get away from everything. To somehow regain control of something when everything else is seemingly out of control, or you know the child wasn’t abducted and not coming back. Imo

Or you know. Indeed.

Would you even put out the call-to-arms to family? No one wants to assume the worst -- he'll turn up, we'll find him.

But IF, if you truly needed extra searchers or needed family support in the first hours and weren't concerned Wm wouldn't be found before the plane set down, wouldn't you enlist someone else to play airport ferry?

My "son" is missing....so I'll just run my errands.

That's weird.

He was lost on her watch, she should shelter in place, in the event she has more information to provide -- habits, patterns -- in case Wm is found -- in case she's needed immediately.

And again, it's not lost on me that she absconded with three of the key witnesses -- her mother, the foster daughter and herself -- two of whom may have been rather impressionable, conveniently enough.

I sure hope no one in the home perpetuated the dispute-over-a-toy story to the child. Unfair blame blame. You did this so that happened, covered with a weak "but it's not your fault" (covered in turn with a "but it is", a gaslighter classic).

I hope that poor girl wasn't fed a wheet bix of guilt -- growing up manipulated into thinking it was her fault (not sharing, etc). Slathered with "forgiveness." Another gaslighter special. I'll forgive you (magnanimous) for the thing we both know you didn't do, but I'll make you feel indebted for the imaginary forgiveness, that may have a soupy sense of that's-not-how-I-remember-it-happening but the emotions (guilt, blame, shame) will be cemented. That'd be a big burden for little shoulders.

That car ride to the airport -- I predict we'll learn only one person did all the talking.

JMO

 

[LolaAngelina]

Maybe the car ride to the airport was all about damage control and narrative manipulation.

As an example (speculating), rehearsing, "remember how Wm went around the corner and roared, and I made tea, and went to look for him? Remember how you were coloring and I was only gone for 5 minutes?"

Did she really leave with the primary two witnesses????? A child and an elderly woman, who IMO wasn't doddy at all. I ask, who pushed the narrative that thst the FGma had memory issues? Bingo.

Her walk-thru video IMO shows a careful recall of detail! Her only confusion, as I see, was her trying to reconcile what she was told happened with what she remembered.

Most significant, I think, is that for a period of time she couldn’t find the FCG.

Why didn't the FCG tell the FGma she was going off in the car to "look for Wm"?

I think the truth is: the FCG left the porch twice and willfully manipulated the memory into once.

A fast-thinking cover up, a desperate act to preserve the "family" of three, because losing that was simply not an option.

JMO

BBM The fact that she eventually developed dementia shows it was very possible she was starting to have memory issues. I don’t think anyone was pushing a “narrative”.

 

[deugirtni]

BBM The fact that she eventually developed dementia shows it was very possible she was starting to have memory issues. I don’t think anyone was pushing a “narrative”.

I must've missed the article stating that FGM went on to develop dementia? Is there a link?

 

[Megnut]

I find the FCG's speech to be forced which suggests things like perfectionism, control...

I found the MCG's actions to be sincere.

He may know more now than he did then but I think he genuinely believed Wm was lost or taken.

People are complicated. Relationships are complicated.

If I could pen the subtext here, it might go something like this (pure speculation):

40 year old couple +/- want a family. Choose fostering as a hopeful vehicle for adoption.

Female child is placed with them. Long term. Delightful, easy child. Takes to them warmly. Perfect arrangement. Then Wm comes. Precious child but more complicated. Behavioral issues. Bonding issues. FCG seeks to control situation -- by restricting/eliminating bio family visits (they're the problem, not me) or giving him back.

Child is bonded with MCG, however. This creates marital tension. Biting, kicking directed only at FCG (perhaps she has less patience and he's responding the only way he is able).

Parents are sleeping separately and that continues at FGma's (even FGma seemed surprised -- typically they shared an air mattress, she said)....

Dissolution of marriage would disrupt the "perfect" family. Not satisfactory.

Day of, IMO MCG leaves twice. Once at 8, then again around 9.

When he leaves the second time, something happens to Wm. An accidental fall (FCG going after him to correct him regarding dice) (consistent with unrealistic expectations of perfect behavior) or (less likely but still viable IMO) excessive discipline/fatal assault.

Seen it in other cases. An adult will kill a child in the desperate hope to save a relationship. I.e. he'll turn to me in his grief and we'll pull together as a family. Marriage saved, easy foster child retained, problem child gone.

IMO there was a decision moment. Come clean, call emergency services but that would have dire and immediate repercussions, if not criminal charges, certainly a crumbled marriage and loss of the near-permanent foster daughter. And so.... or... cover it up.

Quick thinking, fast talking, narrative winding.

Play both halves of Mommy Monster. For Gma's benefit but also picked up by neighbors. Return to the porch, make tea.

Situate FGma and FD with busy work.

Get Wm gone.

Drive 10 minutes, hide him somewhere. Drive 10 minutes back, pausing only to toss gloves, shoes, clothing, something. A car ride no one ever was going to know about.

Hurry back, bring fresh tea, go look for Wm as if no time had passed, as if he'd been quiet too long for mere minutes.

Begin the narrative he's just disappeared. Never veer from it.

Reinforce the timeline with the young child and the old lady.

In time, the husband probably developed suspicion... and may have been cuckolded into remaining silent -- under threat of losing the remaining child.

And in time, the remaining child may have tried to reconcile fuzzy memories and a perplexing timeline/order of events.

And that would threaten the family bubble.

As I said, pure speculation.

JMO

 

[KateM]

Something else to note is that FFC is talking about "the initial period" after William came to them. I suggest that it is perhaps implied, and certainly possible, that things improved afterwards, some time in the course of that roughly twenty months he was with them.

According to an article that Caroline Overington wrote for The Australian 19/11/21, 3 days before William disappeared, the FM sent an email to Fac's, re problems she was having with William. I cannot send a link to the article, as I am not a subscriber, but when CO wrote it, it was open for a couple of days.

 

[JBowie]

On (NSW) rewards and their success or otherwise:

For monetary rewards to work, Johnson says two other elements are key: publicity and trust.

The reward isn’t just about incentivising people to come forward – it also must generate enough attention to make the case a topic of conversation.

Potential informants also need to feel confident police will protect them if they come forward and that their information will actually matter.

‘Money talks’: the rise and rise of police rewards for unsolved crimes

In recent years, there has been a marked increase in million-dollar rewards on offer. In NSW, there are currently 248 rewards ranging from $50,000 to $1 million on offer for information that leads to a conviction.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Trmtrm2]

I find the FCG's speech to be forced which suggests things like perfectionism, control...

I found the MCG's actions to be sincere.

He may know more now than he did then but I think he genuinely believed Wm was lost or taken.

People are complicated. Relationships are complicated.

If I could pen the subtext here, it might go something like this (pure speculation):

40 year old couple +/- want a family. Choose fostering as a hopeful vehicle for adoption.

Female child is placed with them. Long term. Delightful, easy child. Takes to them warmly. Perfect arrangement. Then Wm comes. Precious child but more complicated. Behavioral issues. Bonding issues. FCG seeks to control situation -- by restricting/eliminating bio family visits (they're the problem, not me) or giving him back.

Child is bonded with MCG, however. This creates marital tension. Biting, kicking directed only at FCG (perhaps she has less patience and he's responding the only way he is able).

Parents are sleeping separately and that continues at FGma's (even FGma seemed surprised -- typically they shared an air mattress, she said)....

Dissolution of marriage would disrupt the "perfect" family. Not satisfactory.

Day of, IMO MCG leaves twice. Once at 8, then again around 9.

When he leaves the second time, something happens to Wm. An accidental fall (FCG going after him to correct him regarding dice) (consistent with unrealistic expectations of perfect behavior) or (less likely but still viable IMO) excessive discipline/fatal assault.

Seen it in other cases. An adult will kill a child in the desperate hope to save a relationship. I.e. he'll turn to me in his grief and we'll pull together as a family. Marriage saved, easy foster child retained, problem child gone.

IMO there was a decision moment. Come clean, call emergency services but that would have dire and immediate repercussions, if not criminal charges, certainly a crumbled marriage and loss of the near-permanent foster daughter. And so.... or... cover it up.

Quick thinking, fast talking, narrative winding.

Play both halves of Mommy Monster. For Gma's benefit but also picked up by neighbors. Return to the porch, make tea.

Situate FGma and FD with busy work.

Get Wm gone.

Drive 10 minutes, hide him somewhere. Drive 10 minutes back, pausing only to toss gloves, shoes, clothing, something. A car ride no one ever was going to know about.

Hurry back, bring fresh tea, go look for Wm as if no time had passed, as if he'd been quiet too long for mere minutes.

Begin the narrative he's just disappeared. Never veer from it.

Reinforce the timeline with the young child and the old lady.

In time, the husband probably developed suspicion... and may have been cuckolded into remaining silent -- under threat of losing the remaining child.

And in time, the remaining child may have tried to reconcile fuzzy memories and a perplexing timeline/order of events.

And that would threaten the family bubble.

As I said, pure speculation.

JMO

Great wording of everything, I wasn't aware that foster father left twice, its so perfect that disappearance happened in Kendall not alot of security cameras and lots of bush, in Sydney there would of been loads of cameras and not much options, so perfect for the foster mother who was complaining about everything that now her problems hav left,

I hav always wondered about birth mother and sister, was birth mother having visits with sister before or after the birth of WT was the sister going with WT to the visits now he is with foster family im assuming she was as of a few articles i hav read but not 100% sure, now WT is out of the picture is sister continuing to see BM in the immediate time frame after the disappearance, I would assume that at some point in the future sister and birth mother would want to hav visits im not 100% sure what happened there.

As my theory has always been that birth family lost rights to sister as they may not hav kept up on appointments or court after loosing her, sister appeared to at some point hav entered the Forster familys care as long term, she may be available for adoption at some point in the future, WT was removed put with a sibling placement (possibly what the fosters were hoping for) (initially it would of had to start as short term?) but in the situation of WT birth mother she appeared to kept up with court appearances and appointments to get the child back, possibly she'd never be able to get him as he is in a sibling placement so hence the fact he will be under the department until 18yrs old, hence the fact birth family continuing to visit, creating a huge problem to adopt sister she is now in a sibling foster placement and basically may not be allowed to be adopted out reason being fosters could legally hand back WT at any time so then it would separate the siblings, basically a catch 20 situation, sister is available for adoption or future adoption but is now in a sibling foster placement with her biological brother, biological brother can't be adoptable as birth mother is on the scene, hence fosters trying to remove the birth family as of WT behaviour issues that appear to only be looked at by the department, where normally you would inform the department of the behavioural issues but take the child to developmental paediatrician and so forth for diagnosis or referral to assessments, getting back to the fact sister may be adoptable, brother may be un-adoptable, foster mother asked for birth visits to stop then threatening that she cant continue with WT i can't quote the email some things along that line to give him back (knowing she can't give him back as the sister is in a sibling placement if WT go's looks like the sister may hav to go with him) was the only option to foster mother was for WT to disappear into fresh air then sister can become adoptable, was WT the only reason birth mother was legally allowed to be on the scene, is it because no death certificate has been issued that the sister was sitting in limbo still couldn't be adopted out because of the sibling placement, its looks like a huge error in the department sister sitting in long term care to be sibling placed with a biological brother she may hav never met who is only entering the foster system initially as a short term whos biological parents hav kept up with legal requirements but can't get him back as he is sitting with a sibling he may have never met before the placement who she is long term possibly never to return to birth family or possibly the siblings together would be to much of a responsibility to every both go together to the birth family, should the department hav given fosters who wanted long term the sister but placed the brother in a short term placement to see if he will go back to birth family so there is an option for him to return then if the situation arose that birth mother can't get him then for him to be moved on as long term placement to the foster family with the sister

It seems like to much of an anomalie for WT to perfectly disappear into fresh air, and now the sister coming to an age that she can be adopted out with her consent i would assume fosters where pushing this onto her and from whats happened in the media im assuming she did not want this

Do they need my consent?

Your child can be adopted if they are in out-of-home care. Read more about the process, consent and court requirements, including how to stop an adoption order.

www.facs.nsw.gov.au

At the age of 12 a child can concent to adoption then fosters wouldn't need anyone else to approve, could it be the sister saying no i want to keep my last name same as my brother WT and I want to be in my birth family and if the fosters were responsible at some degree for the disappearance of WT are there true colours beginning to now show and they hav treated the sister badly could they hav snapped in some way as of everything they hav done and been through to try and adopt this child and she turned around and said no?

I would love to see a list of correct time lines, one that shows foster mothers drive that morning, or was there a witness that saw her driving at a confirmed time, I feel with foster mother instead of answering a question she is using for to many words and the answers are all over the place with her asking questions herself, basically bo straight answers with anything the story is all over the place