Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72

[JLZ]

I think the point of the article (besides the outrage that a notorious pedo like him is out with just an ankle bracelet) is that he was accessing "innocent" photos of young boys. Which is against his parole conditions.

William in his spiderman suit
"Cute Boys in Speedos"
A pet care guide and a local newspaper showing images of young children

And that William might not have been subject to this pedos lewd attention if his FP weren't splashed all over the news back in November.

imo

Thanks. I couldn't read the article, but clicking gave me DAL in the headline.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I think the point of the article (besides the outrage that a notorious pedo like him is out with just an ankle bracelet) is that he was accessing "innocent" photos of young boys. Which is against his parole conditions.

William in his spiderman suit
"Cute Boys in Speedos"
A pet care guide and a local newspaper showing images of young children

And that William might not have been subject to this pedos lewd attention if his FP weren't splashed all over the news back in November.

imo

These sort also closely follow cases about child murders and missing children, writing loving comments about these children, it’s disturbing and something every true crime participant should be aware of.
JMO

 

[JLZ]

These sort also closely follow cases about child murders and missing children, writing loving comments about these children, it’s disturbing and something every true crime participant should be aware of.
JMO

I checked my alibi. I was home writing a letter. I didn't use my credit card for the next 3 days! I didn't have lunch with a daughter and I'm not FA.

 

[bearbear]

These sort also closely follow cases about child murders and missing children, writing loving comments about these children, it’s disturbing and something every true crime participant should be aware of.
JMO

haha! we all do that here too

 

[seekingjustice**]

If she wasn't a frequent visitor, I still contend -- how could she determine a car was parked oddly? Maybe that's where they always parked.

No matter, I think she invented them.

JMO

I completely agree - how would she know what cars the neighbors drive, where they park and also whether it's a neighbors family or visitor.

I believe she absolutely fabricated the story to change the direction of the investigation. JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

JMO - Was seeing those 2 cars a fabrication by FFC, and what prompted her to do that?
Because, if FFC saw the cars at 7.30 am, the MFC would have been still there [if he left Benaroon at 8.40am (or later, at 9am or 9.30am)]. He would surely have noticed them … maybe even had to avoid backing into them before driving off!

Doubt over William Tyrrell foster mother's claim two cars seen in street
“Det Sgt Laura Beacroft, who joined the investigation in September 2015, said she had been unable to corroborate the foster mother’s statement about the cars seen at 7.30am and 9am.”

I don't think the cars necessarily have any bearing on whether or not FA was involved in William's disappearance.
(If that is what you mean. If not, my apologies.)

Abbott was known to walk a lot. And if he was on Benaroon/Ellendale looking for petty theft opportunities that morning, there is a good chance he would have parked on a fire trail or otherwise out of sight (if he had a car) and walked the street. Less chance of being seen that way. imo


Mr H told the court his “initial impression” of Abbott was that he was a “very helpful man” and he often saw him walking into town.
Thread 54, post 490


(FD wouldn't have backed into the cars, they were parked on the other part of Benaroon - not anywhere near FGM's driveway.)

 

[SouthAussie]

Australian True Crime podcast features an interview with CO and new suppression orders are briefly mentioned, the host goes on to say that the doco series is no longer available to stream due to those new orders.

William Tyrrell Update - Who Really Said What and When? | Australian True Crime

Listen to William Tyrrell Update - Who Really Said What and When? from Australian True Crime. Show Notes Ep 236 of Australian True Crime with Meshel Laurie and Emily Webb Australia is haunted by its missing children and none more so than William Tyrrell. On November 16 NSW Police Commissioner...

shows.acast.com

When all is said and done in this case, I hope that CO explains all of these suppression orders in an article.

We know there is one by a judge suppressing the names of all the parents. I think that is backed up by the Coroner in her suppression of the names of all the parents.

Who suppressed 7News Investigates? The Coroner? The police? .... due to there being an active police/Coronial investigation - and FA being a POI?

 

[Chrissy74]

My house is set back from the road ... about 30 metres, at a guess. And my street is a quiet 'dead end' street, a culdesac. My living room windows face the front. Similar to homes on Benaroon Drive.

I do not notice cars driving on the street. Unless I happen to be looking out of my front window or am in the front garden.

The only car movement I notice (from inside the house) is a next door neighbour's teenage son's 'hot car' because it is loud, and another close neighbour when they get home because they slam their van doors quite loudly, then their dog barks with excitement that they are home.

I personally think it is probable that a car/some cars could have driven that street that morning and not have been noticed by anyone.

imo

DrSleuth’s post in relation to Mr & Mrs Crabb posted Jan 14th 2022. I wanted to quote it directly however there was no quote link available to do this so I have copied and pasted the post for reference

“I agree that the evidence is only about 1 car & both thought it was the postie

Mr Crabb said about 10 mins after they got home & Mrs Crabb said about 40 mins.

From my notes they got home at 09:30-09:35 ( after initially saying it was 10:30 ---police retraced their movements , they had been to a butcher's shop ( heard this from Mr Craddock & they had a receipt , they had also used a loyalty card somewhere ( from Detective Beacrofts testimony)


Corrected times
09:40 - 09:45 : Mr Crabb hears a car turn around, sounds like posties ( from the inquest ) about 10 mins after getting home

09:59 – 10:07 : PS call Casino hospital, call lasts 8 minutes


10:10 – 10:15 : Mrs Crabb hears car sitting on back deck , about 40mins ( Mr Crabb said 10 mins ) after arriving home , thought “ sounded like the postman, car came up reasonably fast , did a u-turn & continued on it’s way” ( from her evidence )


So that puts the time MR C heard the vehicle @ about 09:40 - 09:45 & Mrs C @ about 10:10 - 10:15


From memory , I think MRS C said she also prepared some of the evening meal also before going out onto the back deck to have a cup of tea. I think that would have taken more than 10 mins IMO ?

IMO I think Mrs C is correct & that fits with Laidlaws & Beacrofts time as well of 10:10 or 10:15”
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ndall-nsw-12-sep-2014-67.606601/post-17386341

 

[Megnut]

Maybe Mr. and Mrs. C heard different trips of the same car and that's why they disagree on the timing.

JMO

 

[Chrissy74]

Maybe Mr. and Mrs. C heard different trips of the same car and that's why they disagree on the timing.

JMO

Maybe Megnut or maybe the car that Mrs Crabb heard that morning around 10:15am was another car altogether. Possibly the car that was heard driving up Benaroon Drive and specifically stopping at the front of fgm for a few seconds, reversing or doing a u-turn and driving away was the car that picked up W and moved him on. The 10:15am time given by the Crabbs is also the same time mfc gives in the interview with police when mfc states time W disappeared as 10:15am and Ffc whispers No No

 

[JBowie]

Australian True Crime podcast features an interview with CO and new suppression orders are briefly mentioned, the host goes on to say that the doco series is no longer available to stream due to those new orders.

William Tyrrell Update - Who Really Said What and When? | Australian True Crime

Listen to William Tyrrell Update - Who Really Said What and When? from Australian True Crime. Show Notes Ep 236 of Australian True Crime with Meshel Laurie and Emily Webb Australia is haunted by its missing children and none more so than William Tyrrell. On November 16 NSW Police Commissioner...

shows.acast.com

That podcast is a reminder of the case status quo from the purview of Police HQ at the end of 2021. It features former police commissioner Mick Fuller opining that some police time was wasted on people who clearly were not POIs and that he is confident that Laidlaw's team can solve the case and for people to be patient.

That was followed up by Gary Jubelin on Ben Fordham's radio program broadly hinting that Fuller didn't know anything about homicide investigation procedure. (IIRC, Fuller had never worked in homicide.)

 

[JLZ]

Maybe Mr. and Mrs. C heard different trips of the same car and that's why they disagree on the timing.

JMO

FGM and FFC on the porch wouldn't have heard a car on the main part of Benaroon Drive, because the house blocked the sound, but up their leg where the Crabbs heard it, they absolutely should have done. So what are the options?
1) The car came after William went missing and neither of them was on the porch because they were searching. Or
2) The car was FFC taking FGM's car. Or
3) FGM and FFC absented the porch at the same time, perhaps while William was playing outside, and they haven't mentioned it. Or
4) The bike riding (and car turning at the Millers' which FFC allegedly saw) was more than half an hour later than they remember.

Edit: Sorry, Megnut, I missed addressing your point. Apparently the Crabbs commented to one another that the car they were hearing sounded like the postie, so it would seem they are reporting the same car, even though they disagree about what time it was. I had thought that if reporting this some time later they might have been confused about what day it happened, but the connection with the Millers' absence--they were interested in the postie's arrival because they were collecting the Millers' mail--makes this less likely.

 

[Megnut]

FGM and FFC on the porch wouldn't have heard a car on the main part of Benaroon Drive, because the house blocked the sound, but up their leg where the Crabbs heard it, they absolutely should have done. So what are the options?
1) The car came after William went missing and neither of them was on the porch because they were searching. Or
2) The car was FFC taking FGM's car. Or
3) FGM and FFC absented the porch at the same time, perhaps while William was playing outside, and they haven't mentioned it. Or
4) The bike riding (and car turning at the Millers' which FFC allegedly saw) was more than half an hour later than they remember.

Edit: Sorry, Megnut, I missed addressing your point. Apparently the Crabbs commented to one another that the car they were hearing sounded like the postie, so it would seem they are reporting the same car, even though they disagree about what time it was. I had thought that if reporting this some time later they might have been confused about what day it happened, but the connection with the Millers' absence--they were interested in the postie's arrival because they were collecting the Millers' mail--makes this less likely.

I do think they heard the same car. And I think it paused at the foster grandma's house, I think it made a u-turn, and I think it still stands that it could've been the foster mother at two different times and the C's each heard one of them.

Because we know she was driving and very possibly precisely then. So it's reasonable they would've heard her.

Do we know if the foster grandma was routinely driving? If she hadn't been, it further supports my thought, in that the neighbors wouldn't be expecting her car to be out and about. They were waiting on the postie which may explain why their minds went there.

Which begs the question, if it was the postie or a mystery kidnapper, why didn't the C's hear the foster mother's trip?

All just my opinions

 

[Chrissy74]

FGM and FFC on the porch wouldn't have heard a car on the main part of Benaroon Drive, because the house blocked the sound, but up their leg where the Crabbs heard it, they absolutely should have done. So what are the options?
1) The car came after William went missing and neither of them was on the porch because they were searching. Or
2) The car was FFC taking FGM's car. Or
3) FGM and FFC absented the porch at the same time, perhaps while William was playing outside, and they haven't mentioned it. Or
4) The bike riding (and car turning at the Millers' which FFC allegedly saw) was more than half an hour later than they remember.

Edit: Sorry, Megnut, I missed addressing your point. Apparently the Crabbs commented to one another that the car they were hearing sounded like the postie, so it would seem they are reporting the same car, even though they disagree about what time it was. I had thought that if reporting this some time later they might have been confused about what day it happened, but the connection with the Millers' absence--they were interested in the postie's arrival because they were collecting the Millers' mail--makes this less likely. police statements were taken from PS and Mr & Mrs Crabb on 25th September 2014, perhaps other neighbours statements were also formally taken on that day. As you mentioned other contributing factors make it more than likely mMr & Mrs Crabb didn’t get their days mixed up so the car they heard come up Benaroon Drive stop in front of fgm house briefly then do a u turn on the morning of 12th September 2014 was in deed heard that morning

Well we can cross option 1 off the list

The Crabbs were on their veranda at the back of the house, but Mr Craddock told the inquest “residents of Benaroon Drive would notice there were cars if there were cars”.
Asked if the street was “very quiet and noise travels”, Sgt Beacroft said Benaroon Drive was “extremely quiet”.
Asked also if she had been “sceptical” abut the Crabbs’ evidence,
“Sgt Beacroft said she had “done a lot of work with them”, investigating the claim.

Option 2 is still a possibility as the time Ffc took that drive has not been released and in fact has not been mentioned once in any of the fp interviews, other than the releases walk through taken 6 days after the fact. However the Crabbs state they heard the car come up the street turn around and go back out the street. So that’s conflicting . But
If this is the case then that would mean W was presumed missing sometime before 10:15 making Ffc statements about the 10:30 time inaccurate and false.

Not sure what you mean with option 3

As for option 4 if that were the case then the last photos taken of W in his Spider-Man suit on the back veranda couldn’t have been taken at the 9:35 time.

There is however another option. Option 5
The car Mr & Mrs Crabb heard that morning around 10:05-10:15am was somebody else’s car. Perhaps the mfc? The pharmacy visit wasn’t unti 10:19am. If mfc arrived back at the house between 10-10:10am he would have made it to Lakewood pharmacy at exactly that time. If his conference call was from 9:17am as you stated in an earlier post and went for 30-40min there was enough time for him to drive back to the fgm to arrive around the 10am mark.
Or
Was someone else all together. Planned abduction by the fp perhaps? Because the car that was heard that morning at that time gives the impression it was “driving with a purpose” and that it had specifically driven up to and stopped briefly at 48 Benaroon Drive.

 

[Megnut]

Possibly the foster father was driving during his meeting. The whole morning had moving parts. Maybe he was one of them.

If the foster mother left with Wm, disposed of him somewhere, drove back to the foster grandma's house, only to realize she still had something damning with her, she may have left a second time, this time being the segment where the other driver saw her.

JMO

 

[Couldbe]

JMO - With the iconic photo of William roaring at 9.39am, and FFC saying that she last saw William when he hopped off the back deck and ran around the side of the house still playing his Daddy Tiger game of roaring,

my QUESTIONS are:-

Would William be likely to be playing the Daddy Tiger game for the whole time (50 minutes); ‘Somebody has taken him’: William Tyrrell’s foster mother shares grief over loss of three-year-old

OR, did he just resume the Daddy Tiger game again at 10.30am (LE have estimated 10.10am as a possible time for his disappearance)?

OR ALTERNATIVELY, has FFC conflated the two for her story …. by just addressing that photo …….. and said that he was roaring when he disappeared?

 

[Megnut]

JMO - With the iconic photo of William roaring at 9.39am, and FFC saying that she last saw William when he hopped off the back deck and ran around the side of the house still playing his Daddy Tiger game of roaring,

my QUESTIONS are:-

Would William be likely to be playing the Daddy Tiger game for the whole time (50 minutes); ‘Somebody has taken him’: William Tyrrell’s foster mother shares grief over loss of three-year-old

OR, did he just resume the Daddy Tiger game again at 10.30am (LE have estimated 10.10am as a possible time for his disappearance)?

OR ALTERNATIVELY, has FFC conflated the two for her story …. by just addressing that photo …….. and said that he was roaring when he disappeared?

Yes!!! IMO she used the photo to "prove" her narrative! As if Wm popped up at 9:47, roared around the corner and disappeared.

But she's got a serious time problem.

JMO

 

[Chrissy74]

Possibly the foster father was driving during his meeting. The whole morning had moving parts. Maybe he was one of them.

If the foster mother left with Wm, disposed of him somewhere, drove back to the foster grandma's house, only to realize she still had something damning with her, she may have left a second time, this time being the segment where the other driver saw her.

JMO

Yes Megnut definitely fits in. if we take both times from Mr and Mrs Crabb then it’s possible whatever happened to W happened within minutes of the last photo and Ffc could have made her first trip out of Benaroon drive around 9:45 (Mr C time) and her return was the car Mrs C heard between 10:10 . Which leaves roughly 25min of accounted for time and fits into the Ffc account of her timeline being she took the last photo at 9:37and then W was playing daddy tiger roaring around to the side of the house. Ffc may have come back to the house, realises she had forgotten some sort of evidence in the car or even on herself, so drives back out of Benaroon Dr in a hurry to dispose of it. Then returning to the house either just before or just after mfc arrived home. This scenario fits into the timeline perfectly.

 

[Couldbe]

JMO - Even FFGM indicates that there were no other activities played by William between the 9.39am photo and his last activity of jumping off the back deck and disappearing.
Edited to add: JMO - This also seems to indicate that 'the jumping off the back deck' could have occurred very soon after the photos at say 9.39am ..... FFC then went looking for him and found him ..... and then drove the Mazda somewhere (Batar Creek Road) .... returning around 10.15am.
....... She then joined FFGM on the back deck again, when they drank tea....until 10.30am (the time that she saw the text message from MFC: 'home in five'.

Inside house where William Tyrrell spent his final hours
BBM - “Leading two detectives out onto the wooden verandah - the same 'patio' where William was photographed in the iconic Spider-Man image - the grandmother sits down in the same chair she is sitting on in the iconic Spider-Man image

She said William drew pictures with crayons, 'got fed up', and while he was doing so was photographed by his foster mother, 'that photo of him in the Spider-Man suit, that was taken here'.

'Then (the foster mother) had him throwing the dice, and he was THROWING the dice and she had to teach him that you don’t, just let it roll out of your hand.

The foster grandmother tells detectives 'He was sort of taking over everything and we said "roar, I'm a tiger" and he just disappeared around the corner of the house. And that’s the last I saw of him'

She said her final look at William 'he was in that boisterous, happy, energetic little phase' and she believed he would have run down the hill sloping away from her house towards the road

'But he still wanted to throw it. He got sick of that as well.'

It was after that, she said, came the last actions of the little boy observed by anyone other than his abductor, the 'daddy tiger' game.

'He was sort of taking over everything and we said "roar, I'm a tiger" and he just disappeared around the corner of the house.”

 

[Megnut]

JM) - Even FFGM indicates that there were no other activities played by William between the 9.39am photo and his last activity of jumping off the back deck and disappearing.

Inside house where William Tyrrell spent his final hours
BBM - “Leading two detectives out onto the wooden verandah - the same 'patio' where William was photographed in the iconic Spider-Man image - the grandmother sits down in the same chair she is sitting on in the iconic Spider-Man image

She said William drew pictures with crayons, 'got fed up', and while he was doing so was photographed by his foster mother, 'that photo of him in the Spider-Man suit, that was taken here'.

'Then (the foster mother) had him throwing the dice, and he was THROWING the dice and she had to teach him that you don’t, just let it roll out of your hand.

The foster grandmother tells detectives 'He was sort of taking over everything and we said "roar, I'm a tiger" and he just disappeared around the corner of the house. And that’s the last I saw of him'

She said her final look at William 'he was in that boisterous, happy, energetic little phase' and she believed he would have run down the hill sloping away from her house towards the road

'But he still wanted to throw it. He got sick of that as well.'

It was after that, she said, came the last actions of the little boy observed by anyone other than his abductor, the 'daddy tiger' game.

'He was sort of taking over everything and we said "roar, I'm a tiger" and he just disappeared around the corner of the house.”

And we said, "roar, I'm a tiger"?????

Was someone purposefully messing with the foster grandma's head? Remember how he was playing and we told him to roar and he ran around the corner where there's a nice, soft slope ...

Was someone feeding her answers, meant to confuse and coopt?

The best teller of time IMO is going to be Wm's sister. Maybe not by a clock, and maybe not with numbered minutes, but like I've said before, in number of drawings completed... Or whether there's a subtext. The Wm was being rambunctious and received a scolding (under threat of the wooden spatula?) and that's what was happening just before Wm and the foster mother disappeared for a time. And without explanation.

JMO