Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #19

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thylacine7 said:
It was a fascinating documentary, and echoed sentiments of the sex crimes squad workers from an article from last year that's been posted here by myself and others in previous threads.

iView link here.

Goes to show how many mental health experts too are now realizing that the key to stopping abuse is talking to and providing treatment to paedophiles, BEFORE they offend.

Clearly having paedophilic urges doesn't make someone a raving lunatic certain to offend; many so-called 'virtuous paedophiles' are dedicated to not acting on their urges and helping others like them. Many are not solely attracted to children, and so carry on otherwise normal relationships.

The problem with many (probably most) people's justifiable reaction to name-and-shame, berate, or even attack such people is that it drives them underground where they cannot be monitored by authorities or health professionals, and stress is well known to increase the likelihood of offenses being committed.

Generally we only hear or know about paedophiles AFTER they offend, but campaigns in Europe calling paedophiles to seek the help now being offered to them have been a resounding success, to the point that child welfare organizations endorse them.

At the end of the day, what's better? - insufficient punishment after the act is committed, or helping someone, possibly despite a justifiable aversion at first, to stop them offending in the first place?
Click to expand...

From all my reading on the subject, there is a difference between paedophiles and child sex offenders. That is, one group has thoughts and the other chooses to act on those thoughts. Therapy (if possible) for non-offenders and extremely harsh penalties for offenders seems to be the way to go but it should be without ever legitimising their 'sexual preference'.
 
thylacine7 said:
It was a fascinating documentary, and echoed sentiments of the sex crimes squad workers from an article from last year that's been posted here by myself and others in previous threads.

iView link here.

Goes to show how many mental health experts too are now realizing that the key to stopping abuse is talking to and providing treatment to paedophiles, BEFORE they offend.

Clearly having paedophilic urges doesn't make someone a raving lunatic certain to offend; many so-called 'virtuous paedophiles' are dedicated to not acting on their urges and helping others like them. Many are not solely attracted to children, and so carry on otherwise normal relationships.

The problem with many (probably most) people's justifiable reaction to name-and-shame, berate, or even attack such people is that it drives them underground where they cannot be monitored by authorities or health professionals, and stress is well known to increase the likelihood of offenses being committed.

Generally we only hear or know about paedophiles AFTER they offend, but campaigns in Europe calling paedophiles to seek the help now being offered to them have been a resounding success, to the point that child welfare organizations endorse them.

At the end of the day, what's better? - insufficient punishment after the act is committed, or helping someone, possibly despite a justifiable aversion at first, to stop them offending in the first place?
Click to expand...

I agree completely. If there was readily available therapy for people with these urges I have no doubt the offending would decrease. Everywhere in the media the are classed as monsters so there would be no where they felt they could find help to stop them from offending. Unless they have already. The crimes are way different but it's the same idea as DV. The perps are so hated in society that they cannot find help unless they have offended. But with DV that is changing.


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Bohemian said:
From all my reading on the subject, there is a difference between paedophiles and child sex offenders. That is, one group has thoughts and the other chooses to act on those thoughts. Therapy (if possible) for non-offenders and extremely harsh penalties for offenders seems to be the way to go but it should be without ever legitimising their 'sexual preference'.
Click to expand...

The way I see it is... There are plenty of men who are attracted to women, but can't get a girlfriend. That doesn't make it okay for them to go out and rape women. They just manage without sex. People can remain celibate for years and years, or virgins for their whole lives but it doesn't turn them into crazy molesters who can't control their actions.

So no, I don't buy it for a minute that paedophiles just can't help themselves and deserve sympathy. They may not he able to help being attracted to children, but they are in complete control about whether they choose to turn that attraction into abuse and rape or not. Just as a man can't help being attracted to women, but can choose to remain celibate rather than becoming rapist.
 
Rayemonde said:
The way I see it is... There are plenty of men who are attracted to women, but can't get a girlfriend. That doesn't make it okay for them to go out and rape women. They just manage without sex. People can remain celibate for years and years, or virgins for their whole lives but it doesn't turn them into crazy molesters who can't control their actions.

So no, I don't buy it for a minute that paedophiles just can't help themselves and deserve sympathy. They may not he able to help being attracted to children, but they are in complete control about whether they choose to turn that attraction into abuse and rape or not. Just as a man can't help being attracted to women, but can choose to remain celibate rather than becoming rapist.
Click to expand...

Yes and no... There is avenues for legal sexual gratification including media, prostitution etc. I won't keep talking about this though as it's too awful.


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But yes it's their choice. They are still screwed up to act upon it.


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Rayemonde said:
The way I see it is... There are plenty of men who are attracted to women, but can't get a girlfriend. That doesn't make it okay for them to go out and rape women. They just manage without sex. People can remain celibate for years and years, or virgins for their whole lives but it doesn't turn them into crazy molesters who can't control their actions.

So no, I don't buy it for a minute that paedophiles just can't help themselves and deserve sympathy. They may not he able to help being attracted to children, but they are in complete control about whether they choose to turn that attraction into abuse and rape or not. Just as a man can't help being attracted to women, but can choose to remain celibate rather than becoming rapist.
Click to expand...

Exactly my point. One group (paedophiles) have thoughts or are 'attracted' to children and don't act. The other group (child sexual offenders) have thoughts or are 'attracted' to children and do act. The former group may benefit from therapy (I personally don't know) to deal with their problem but the latter need extremely harsh penalties to protect children from them; much the same as rapists should receive to protect their potential victims.
 
Found said:
Yes and no... There is avenues for legal sexual gratification including media, prostitution etc. I won't keep talking about this though as it's too awful.


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Click to expand...

Found said:
But yes it's their choice. They are still screwed up to act upon it.


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Click to expand...

I think we have discussed the topic enough and all pretty much agree on the definitions, motivations and modus operandi of the individuals involved in groups reponsible for crimes against children. It is starting to become upsetting for some of us and I think we should all move on so we also don't risk becoming derailed from William's case.
 
MOD ALERT: All that we've been told by police investigating William's disappearance is that his family life is complicated. Leave it at that. There are suppression orders in place in regard to his family background and that's what we'll go with here. Leave the foster care discussion out please.


 
I was laying in bed in the early hours of this morning; the rain bucketing down, thinking of William and how different his case is to another recent missing child who had a 'family life' that was 'complicated'. Photos in MSM show them, and their 'complicated family', together in happier times and now grieving because they were found deceased.

I find the difference between their photos and William's startling. William is a little boy always pictured alone. I know that wasn't the case and William was dearly loved by his family, but I always see him in my mind as a lone, lost little boy without a loved one's arms around him whenever it's late at night, cold and rainy, and my heart hurts.

I pray one day I will be able to enjoy the comfort of my warm bed on cold, rainy nights because William is no longer a lone, lost little boy and I will see him in my mind safe, warm and back in his loved ones' arms. (No photos necessary).
 
Bohemian said:
William is a little boy always pictured alone.
Click to expand...

This most likely is because the people around him have protected identities. We'd never clearly see him playing with his sister, or outside his house, or at his school in an identifiable way, or being held by a guardian. So yes it's a sad impression, but you can listen to the words of his guardians and be happy knowing he was cared for.
 
butterstick said:
This most likely is because the people around him have protected identities. We'd never clearly see him playing with his sister, or outside his house, or at his school in an identifiable way, or being held by a guardian. So yes it's a sad impression, but you can listen to the words of his guardians and be happy knowing he was cared for.
Click to expand...

Thanks, butterstick, your words are very comforting. I could hear in the voices of William's family just how much he was loved.

It's just the stark contrast between William's 'story' and that of another child who was recently missing (found deceased) in MSM that cuts like a knife. People from all parts of her 'complicated family life' were pictured and quoted rallying around each other, and with their arms around her in happier times.

It all just seems so unfair and it worries me that it has had, and will have, a negative impact on finding William.

If William can't be found, for whatever reason, I don't want him to become that lone, lost little boy forever. I want people to think of William as the beautiful, cheeky boy he is and as part of a family who loves him.
 
I totally agree with you on this and I have spent a lot of time thinking about something we could put in place where the "virtuous paedophiles" have somewhere to go/talk to. A support group perhaps. Just because you have urges doesn't mean they will act of them but the more we name and shame the more likely they are to go into hiding and get caught up in groups that will encourage them to act on those urges. There are so many things wrong in the world and they could be avoided if we put preventative measures in place. Thanks for the great post.

thylacine7 said:
It was a fascinating documentary, and echoed sentiments of the sex crimes squad workers from a recent article that have been posted here by myself and others in previous threads.

iView link here - https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://ab.co/PaedophileNextDoor&h=aAQEp7huS

Goes to show how many mental health experts too are now realizing that the key to stopping abuse is talking to and providing treatment to paedophiles, BEFORE they offend.

Clearly having paedophilic urges doesn't make someone a raving lunatic certain to offend; many so-called 'virtuous paedophiles' are dedicated to not acting on their urges and helping others like them. Many are not solely attracted to children, and so carry on otherwise normal relationships.

The problem with many (probably most) people's justifiable reaction to name-and-shame, berate, or even attack such people is that it drives them underground where they cannot be monitored by authorities or health professionals, and stress is well known to increase the likelihood of offenses being committed.

Generally we only hear or know about paedophiles AFTER they offend, but campaigns in Europe calling paedophiles to seek the help now being offered to them have been a resounding success, to the point that child welfare organizations endorse them.

At the end of the day, what's better? - insufficient punishment after the act is committed, or helping someone, possibly despite a justifiable aversion at first, to stop them offending in the first place?
Click to expand...
 
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