Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - # 3

[Makara]

I would've thought one of the first things they established is whether William was still around after his dad left for the shops, pretty obvious.

Yes of course it is pretty obvious and it was reported in MSM that William was still at the house when his father left. In the initial reports it was stated that the father left the house to run an errand, not that he went to the shops. He could have gone anywhere. The police can only go by what they have been told by William's family. We can only go by what has been reported in MSM even if the information is not entirely correct.

William’s dad went off to “run an errand”. Grandma, Mum, William and his sister went to the back of the house, where the kids played. Mum went in to make a cup of tea. “The two kids then played chase-ies around the house,” Fehon tells me. (There was no fence, but it isn’t the sort of place you’d be concerned because the only traffic is to the few houses up that end of Benaroon Drive.)

And, then, “within one to five minutes the adults noticed that William was missing”. They looked around the house. They couldn’t find him. They became frantic. William’s father was called on a mobile phone. He raced home to help. Within 10-15 minutes, neighbours on the street were searching as well. They couldn’t find him. “Twenty to 25 minutes” after he was first noticed missing, the police were called. They *arrived within six minutes. A “full search” was initiated.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...y-william-tyrell/story-e6frg6nf-1227064608526

I offered the scenario in my previous post only as a supposition of what may have happened. I also have other theories on what happened to little William but I'm unable to voice them here.

 

[marlywings]

As good as they most often are, I wouldn't put the dogs as being 100% accurate.

A case I mentioned in previous thread, I'll add it again for anyone who missed it. An American case, Dr Teleka Patrick, disappeared early Dec last year. Her car was found on the side of a main highway with no sign of her at all. No-one sighted her, sniffer dogs were brought in, tracked her scent to the opposite side of the highway, they found nothing further.

Going from that, one would think Teleka had been picked up by someone. Sadly, over four months later, in April, her body was located 24klms from her car, in a lake that had frozen over. Despite the ice being broken by searchers along with the use of sonar, they didn't find her. The lake was searched multiple times. A fisherman happened to find her body a week or so after one of the previous searches.

Obviously little William wouldn't have been able to travel that kind of distance but in my opinion, I don't think there's any way of searching every square inch of that surrounding forest because of it's sheer size and denseness. All through our history there are cases of people, children lost in our thick forests.

On the other hand, Willliam may very well have been abducted by person/s unknown.

As mentioned in a previous post, police are only human. However, what I do know is, all police involved in the search for him will never give up until William is found.

 

[Froglady]

I think there were only a couple of cameras in the town

 

[kiwi50]

Makara good to see you posting, I agree re 5 mins being ballpark figure, I think your theory is entirely possible, if only we knew how far away father drove, even if William had woken and simply wandered off from car, it may have been hours/days before police considered this scenario.i.m still leaning towards misadventure, wish we knew if there was water near where father went. I don't understand why the police won't even say where errand was, the secrecy in this case baffles me.

 

[SouthAussie]

I have seen two accounts (both by SMH) of where the father's errands took him ... it doesn't seem that he went any farther than 'town'. Presumably they mean the township of Kendall.

The neighbour watched the father, who had been in town running errands (which have been verified by police), arrive back within seconds and start "running around like a mad thing".

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/kendall-in-agony-over-mystery-of-a-little-boy-lost-20140920-10jn4y.html

His grandmother ran down the quiet cul-de-sac asking neighbours if they'd seen the little boy in the Spider-Man suit; his dad arrived home from the shops to learn of the news and started his own frantic search.

http://www.essentialbaby.com.au/lif...-where-is-william-tyrell-20141016-1171am.html

ETA: Though, it looks as though he would have had to go to Lakewood if he wanted to go to a supermarket like Woolworths, as Kendall just seems to have a general store.

http://www.yellowpages.com.au/find/food-or-general-stores/kendall-nsw
https://www.google.com.au/maps/sear...sw/@-31.6329051,152.6900257,12z/data=!3m1!4b1

 

[Makara]

Makara good to see you posting, I agree re 5 mins being ballpark figure, I think your theory is entirely possible, if only we knew how far away father drove, even if William had woken and simply wandered off from car, it may have been hours/days before police considered this scenario.i.m still leaning towards misadventure, wish we knew if there was water near where father went. I don't understand why the police won't even say where errand was, the secrecy in this case baffles me.

Thanks Kiwi50. I agree, misadventure is entirely possible and little William may still be out there somewhere in the bush. The searchers having missed him completely. It's been known to happen as Marly pointed about Dr Teleka Patrick being discovered four months after she disappeared. There was also the case of Gary Tweddle who's body was eventually found after numerous searches.

If just baffles me that even though the police and SES were onto William's disappearance so quickly and apparently covered quite a large area, no trace of him was found. William was wearing his bright red and blue Spiderman suit, which should have been easy to spot in the bush. How far would his little legs have carried him in say, an hour? Not far I would think. What also baffles me is that there were no cries or screams heard from William. If he'd been bitten by a snake of spider, he wouldn't have gotten far. If a wild dog attacked him, I would expect there to be some evidence and also screams from William. If he'd fallen over and hurt himself, surely he would have cried, unless he was unconscious.

It's equally baffling to think that he could have been abducted right under the noses of his mother, grandmother and sister. Why would anyone take the chance to abduct William in such a quiet street where they would be in plain view of many of the residents? And why? Why William? Perhaps a resident in the street is not all they appear to be.

The silence of the police is deafening in this case. More often than not this would indicate that they have information that cannot be revealed to the public as it would jeopardise their investigation. I'm hoping this is the case and William is found safe and well. I do agree with you Kiwi50, the secrecy surrounding William's disappeance is baffling and so frustrating. I think everyone following this case wants to help in any way they can without treading on toes or breaching privacy laws etc.

So what happened to William?

• He wandered off and is still in the bush somewhere, not far from his grandmother's house.
• He was abducted from the vicinity of his grandmother's house by person or persons unknown.
• He was abducted from the vicinity of his grandmother's house by someone he knew.
• 
  <modsnip>
• He wandered to a nearby house and was harmed by the resident/s or an animal there and disposed of.
• He unwittingly climbed into his father's car and became lost and/or abducted away from the grandmother's house.

What else is there?

 

[Makara]

I have seen two accounts (both by SMH) of where the father's errands took him ... it doesn't seem that he went any farther than 'town'. Presumably they mean the township of Kendall.

ETA: Though, it looks as though he would have had to go to Lakewood if he wanted to go to a supermarket like Woolworths, as Kendall just seems to have a general store.

http://www.yellowpages.com.au/find/food-or-general-stores/kendall-nsw
https://www.google.com.au/maps/sear...sw/@-31.6329051,152.6900257,12z/data=!3m1!4b1

Thanks for that SouthAussie. So it can be deduced from these reports that the father was not far away.

ETA. it looks like Lakewood is not too far away from North Brother Forest where police had shifted their search. Lakewood is 6km or 9 minutes drive from Kendall.

http://www.whereis.com/nsw/lakewood-2443

 

[SouthAussie]

I just wish we knew if this was ruled out or ruled in .... police have never said, either way. And I suspect it may be why they wanted anyone who was in Kendall on that day to make contact with them, because they still don't/didn't know the identity of the man.

Fears are growing that three-year-old William Tyrell may have been abducted, as it's revealed police are investigating reports that a man asked for directions to the street the toddler was playing on before he disappeared from the front yard of his grandparents' home six days ago.

A man asked staff in a local shop for directions to Benaroon Drive, in Kendall, on the mid north coast of NSW, on Friday before 10.30am when the toddler went missing, Fairfax Media reports.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-three-year-olds-street-day-went-missing.html

 

[Makara]

A satellite view of Lakewood and Kendall. Queen's Lake is a large area. Has that been searched I wonder?

Click image to enlarge.

 

[Makara]

:moo:

I just wish we knew if this was ruled out or ruled in .... police have never said, either way. And I suspect it may be why they wanted anyone who was in Kendall on that day to make contact with them, because they still don't/didn't know the identity of the man.

Yes, this man is a real mystery. Nothing more has been mentioned about him. No description, nothing! So has his identity been verified and he's been cleared of any involvement? I think that is the case, otherwise there would have been a full description and photofit of him in MSM. What I also find strange is that police have not warned parents to be extra vigilant with their children. It goes without saying that the local parents obviously are very vigilant since William's disappearance but I would expect the police to also issue a warning. It reminds me of Allison Baden-Clay's case. There was never a police warning that there may be a predator on the loose. The police knew almost immediately what happened to Allison, they just had to prove it. And they did!

 

[kiwi50]

A satellite view of Lakewood and Kendall. Queen's Lake is a large area. Has that been searched I wonder?

Click image to enlarge.

Now that is something I would really like to know , especially if it was within an hours walking distance for a child , either from the house or wherever dad's errand took him.
I wonder if the errand was even to the shops, what if dad was dropping off or picking up something for grandmother, have no idea if she has a car or is capable of driving at moment, it makes sense that father might do it for her, and the errand could have been anywhere. Errand is a word I'd be more likely to use if I was doing something for someone else.

 

[Angeline]

the police working on this must have a collective gut feeling by now, i wonder what that feeling is, do they feel he is still alive?
i notice in all press reports they are very selective in their wording, careful not to upset the parents, hesitant to use the paedophile word and still reluctant to say he was possibly abducted, just that william may have been assisted into a car. their language is very guarded.
wish we had a criminal psychologist on here or a profiler to help us with clues and reading speech and body language etc.
its frustrating for us all wanting to discuss this, imagine how frustrating for police facing the media having to bite their tongue so as not to upset anyone.

IMO the closest we've come to hearing what the police really think is a statement from one of the recent articles:

http://m.dailytelegraph.com.au/news...-or-was-abducted/story-fni0cx12-1227109042952

&#8220;We can&#8217;t rule out opportunistic human intervention but if that was the case, then the chances of everything aligning for that to take place is unbelievable.

I would say that someone does know something but that would only be speculation.&#8221;

Makara - I have family who live close to the town and while no-one seems to know what happened, I think people are leaning towards scenarios similar to the one you came up with. Police have checked everything out, but all the points you raised keep leading back to that sort of scenario.

 

[bearbear]

http://m.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/...-1227109042952

&#8220;We can&#8217;t rule out opportunistic human intervention but if that was the case, then the chances of everything aligning for that to take place is unbelievable.

I would say that someone does know something but that would only be speculation.&#8221;

so does that mean he really doesnt think its a random abduction?
if so,
that then leaves the scenarios of
william wandering into and getting lost in the bush
<modsnip>

hiding in his fathers car on the errand and getting lost or abducted from there?

 

[Angeline]

The statement didn't stand out to me at the time, but someone pointed it out on a FB group and it got me thinking.
To me it's a police-like cryptic way of saying it was likely a planned (not opportunistic) abduction.
There was also the time they took reporters to the house and asked them how they think he wandered off. It's just not the sort of terrain (steep) a toddler wanders off into.

 

[marlywings]

Folks we're not going down the speculation road about the family again. They're off limits thanks.

Please discuss only what has been reported via media and/or police reports.

 

[thylacine7]

Yes of course it is pretty obvious and it was reported in MSM that William was still at the house when his father left. In the initial reports it was stated that the father left the house to run an errand, not that he went to the shops. He could have gone anywhere. The police can only go by what they have been told by William's family. We can only go by what has been reported in MSM even if the information is not entirely correct.

Sorry for reply to 'old' post, been a few days since I checked here.

Definitely, initial reports all said 'errand', which raised a lot of questions (and suspicion for some) early on. In a later article, more than a week after William disappeared, it clarified that the father was at the shops, ie 'rushed home from the shops to help with the search' or something along those lines (EDIT: see SouthAussie's post above for the link, just saw the reference to the line to which I'm referring)

It's definitely hard to be confident about the '5 minutes' being completely accurate. Similarly, I always felt uncomfortable with their confidence that, had a car been there, "someone would've seen or heard something". I know it's a small town, and people notice unusual cars or people, but that doesn't mean someone was definitely watching the street at all times. Also, it could've been a familiar car or person (though I know police have said repeatedly they've interviewed everyone, checked all the local houses twice,etc etc... but it's still possible).

The police (I think it may've been Supt Fehon) have also clarified that 'human intervention' is simply police lingo for anything involving another party (ie not just William wandering off) - this covers both planned or opportunistic abduction obviously.

I just really hope their silence is a tactic, or indicative of relentless work (which I'm sure it is), and not an indication of complete 'helplessness' for lack of a better word. It haunts me this one, and as I've said before I'm so worried it'll just go on forever and nobody will ever know what happened. The whole thing's torture for me, I can't imagine what it's like for his family, and I wish I could help them.

EDIT 2: Seems the police are still appealing for public help, so it's not gone totally quiet - http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/11/10/08/50/renewed-appeal-for-missing-nsw-toddler

 

[Amee]

8:47am November 10, 2014
Renewed appeal for missing NSW toddler

After sifting through hundreds of pieces of information that have come through Crime Stoppers, the police officer leading the investigation admits they have no solid lead.

But Superintendent Paul Fehon remains hopeful that someone who knows something and has a conscience will come forward.



Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...l-for-missing-nsw-toddler#XkYXEpSEueGXBk6p.99

 

[Amee]

I just wish we knew if this was ruled out or ruled in .... police have never said, either way. And I suspect it may be why they wanted anyone who was in Kendall on that day to make contact with them, because they still don't/didn't know the identity of the man.

Interesting....

Kendall Cellars owner Rheannon Chapman

Chapman said she has heard about the man who had walked into one of the businesses in town and asked for directions to near where William went missing. She believes the story is true.

"I think the police side of things, the suspicion, was there straight away," she says.

"Just little things like looking at our CCTV. We were told not to delete anything and that was the next day.

But Superintendent Fehon says there was nothing concrete to point to abduction, or "human intervention", as he puts it.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/missing-w...-over-town-20141101-11fbdi.html#ixzz3IcBGhR5V

 

[Angeline]

An appeal in the SMH today as well. Essentially the same article as the 9news link:

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/police-is...w-toddler-william-tyrell-20141110-11jjsw.html

Why is it not on the front page, and why 8 weeks later????

 

[Belz]

Haven't checked here in a few weeks but thought I'd come and see if there was anything new as they were talking about WT on Sunrise this morning. I really thought he would be home by now

Something a friend and I were discussing a few weeks ago (this my have already been mentioned earlier along) - the neighbours probably wouldn't have paid much attention to what car they (WT's parents) were driving. So if a person abducted him into their car, the neighbours may not have thought anything of it and that could be why they don't recall anything...

I guess our thinking was, if you see a car drive past your house unless they are doing something "strange" you probably wouldn't pay attention and if someone asked you about the car later you'd probably have no idea what they were talking about...

Obviously they still would have had to get WT from wherever he was in the yard to the car without anyone noticing but if they didn't think anything of the car then they probably just went about their business.

I realise the house is in a small town so it would be unusual for a car that doesn't belong to one of the neighbours to be driving around but it was just some thoughts we had..