Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #33

[Bohemian]

No, I really cant go through all the legal docos at the moment. If William was confirmed as deceased, an inquest would be called at the coroner's convenience. As he is missing, the investigation must run its course first.


BBM
“an inquest will proceed in William’s case” after it was referred to Coroner Michael Barnes for consideration in Jan*uary 2015. The letters, which represent the first time such a commitment has been made public, caution that any such inquiry* will take place only after the current police investigation, which has identified hundreds of “persons of interest”, is complete.

“All coronial matters, not just this matter, take a significant amount of time and resources to proceed to inquest. Some matters can take a few years,” said one of the letters, written by Coroner’s Court registrar Ann Lambino.

“In William’s case it has not even been established if he is in fact deceased,” another said.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...l/news-story/33ee25ca733a981ec54c7a091d1a7cb2

Thanks anyway, SA. I’ll refresh my memory of the Act tomorrow. It’s pretty vague after all of these years (and the Act was amended in July 2017 IIRC), but I was under the impression that either the Minister or the Coroner was responsible for the timing of an inquest (in consultation with investigators, of course).

Maybe it hasn’t been held due to the reason stated in the last paragraph. BBM.
___________

btw I hope you and yours had an enjoyable Easter break.

 

[louisepiglet]

I can think of a good reason for the FF to be identified. It might jog someones memory of something they had seen where they noticed the parents and not the children. Maybe someone who saw them when they stopped at McDonalds. The kids could have been off in the playground but someone might have noticed someone watching the parents or something like that. If one of my children were missing then it would be the lesser of two evils for their siblings to be identified.

 

[SouthAussie]

Maybe there was/is absolutely no reason for the FF to be identified, and the police know it.

Maybe the police know exactly who took William. Maybe they know whose alibi is untrue, whose phone was pinging in that area, who was supposed to be there that day and now claims that they didn’t go there. Maybe they have CCTV of that person’s vehicle in that general area at a relevant time.

Maybe the police have just about all they need to bring a perp to justice. They may just need that one further piece of info to make an arrest. The piece of info that they have been asking, begging, pleading for someone – someone who they know knows, someone they have already offered immunity from prosecution - to come forward and give them.

Because there has not yet been an arrest, does not mean that the police do not know what has happened.
There are people walking around to this day, ones that the police know are guilty of a crime. They just have been unable to get the right and absolute info that will lead them to a successful prosecution. Eg: Bowraville murders, Matthew Leveson, others ...

 

[SouthAussie]

Thanks anyway, SA. I’ll refresh my memory of the Act tomorrow. It’s pretty vague after all of these years (and the Act was amended in July 2017 IIRC), but I was under the impression that either the Minister or the Coroner was responsible for the timing of an inquest (in consultation with investigators, of course).

Maybe it hasn’t been held due to the reason stated in the last paragraph. BBM.
___________

btw I hope you and yours had an enjoyable Easter break.

Yes, of course the coroner is responsible for the timing of an inquest.

But the coroner cannot have an inquest until the police investigation is concluded or has reached a stalemate. Otherwise the coroner will not have all of the relevant info for an inquest.

It is not up to the coroner to investigate. The coroner will send the police away to investigate further if there are things that are obviously not covered.

It is up to the coroner to look at all of the info, to ask questions of relevant parties, to make a determination in a matter that cannot go to criminal court ... with regard to these types of cases.

 

[Bohemian]

Yes, of course the coroner is responsible for the timing of an inquest.

But the coroner cannot have an inquest until the police investigation is concluded or has reached a stalemate. Otherwise the coroner will not have all of the relevant info for an inquest.

It is not up to the coroner to investigate. The coroner will send the police away to investigate further if there are things that are obviously not covered.

It is up to the coroner to look at all of the info, to ask questions of relevant parties, to make a determination in a matter that cannot go to criminal court ... with regard to these types of cases.

So we agree then.

Just different ways of expressing ‘the means to an end’. (Any means are welcome at this stage.)

Also, in total agreement with your earlier post about the piece of the puzzle investigators need to recover William. I am sincerely asking, begging, pleading, with the ‘someone [who] knows something’ to come forward. DCI Jubelin has emphasised, a number of times, that the ’someone’ will be protected and given immunity from prosecution. I believe he can be trusted.
__________

If that ‘someone’ is reading this I am begging you to give DCI Jubelin that piece of the puzzle so William can be recovered and a mother won’t have to keep grieving for her lost son, nor will a sister have to continue to be without one of her younger brothers. Please don’t put another family through this heartache — I beg you.

 

[sleepinoz]

I have never heard the police say if they think William is alive or deceased. But I think Gary Jubelin has inferred the latter.

"The worst thing is never finding a body"

The police have always stated that as there is no evidence to say otherwise, they will proceed as if William is alive.

I believe the judge in the FACS/Smith court case was privy to police documents/info/evidence (we know Jubes gave an opinion), and then voiced the opinion that William is likely deceased, and made the relevant decision about revealing William's foster care status.

The judge didn't formulate the opinion that William is likely deceased in a baseless manner.

imo

I doubt the judge in FACS/Smith case would be privy to police documents re Williams status, that would remain with the investigators and the Coroner. IMO it's just an assumption by the Judge, probably an assumption most would make.

The case was reported to the Coroner in 2015. The Coroner is kept up to date with the investigation and I would imagine if he wasn't happy with the progress an Inquest would be held.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...-referred-to-nsw-coroner-20150919-gjqblu.html

In regard to William thought to be alive, it has been said a few times, mostly back in 2015. These day's it's if/hope, but never that he's deceased.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-mother-searched-son-knew-deep-taken-him.html

 

[Morrisa]

Back on the 24th...

https://onlineregistry.lawlink.nsw....ail/20180005417217338267MentionPolice/tyrrell

 

[Bohemian]

Back on the 24th...

https://onlineregistry.lawlink.nsw....ail/20180005417217338267MentionPolice/tyrrell

Thanks, Morrisa. Link shows a 404 error now. Watching 7 News to see if there’s any footage of today.

 

[sleepinoz]

Thanks, Morrisa. Link shows a 404 error now. Watching 7 News to see if there’s any footage of today.

Link works for me, but here's another one.

https://onlineregistry.lawlink.nsw....ate%22%2C%22sortOrder%22%3A%22ASC%22%7D%7D%7D

 

[SouthAussie]

In regard to William thought to be alive, it has been said a few times, mostly back in 2015. These day's it's if/hope, but never that he's deceased.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-mother-searched-son-knew-deep-taken-him.html

No, I have never read that William is deceased .... just Jubelin's comment about "The worst thing is not finding a body" (if there is one, of course) and in the case law Jubelin deposed that "the investigation is being conducted as a homicide investigation, although police remain open to the possibility that Julian may yet be found alive" (point #53).

 

[Hbayne]

In the meantime when’s speddings case ?

 

[SouthAussie]

I can think of a good reason for the FF to be identified. It might jog someones memory of something they had seen where they noticed the parents and not the children. Maybe someone who saw them when they stopped at McDonalds. The kids could have been off in the playground but someone might have noticed someone watching the parents or something like that. If one of my children were missing then it would be the lesser of two evils for their siblings to be identified.

One thing that I found really interesting is that in point #54 of the case law it says "While there is nothing to suggest that disclosure of Julian’s legal status would in any way add value to or enhance the investigation, or otherwise assist in finding Julian – indeed Ms Smith, when asked, was unable to suggest any way in which it would do so ..... "

So, it seems that assisting the investigation was not Alana Pearl Smith's intention in revealing William's foster care status. She apparently could not even disclose to the court any way in which she thought it would help.


.

 

[Bohemian]

Link works for me, but here's another one.

https://onlineregistry.lawlink.nsw....ate%22%2C%22sortOrder%22%3A%22ASC%22%7D%7D%7D

D’oh! It was my browser :floorlaugh:

Used another and that’s got it:

24 Apr 2018
9:30 am
2018/00054172
R v KARLIE TYRRELL aka ELRINGTON
Criminal
Local Court
Mention (Police)
Unassigned
Burwood

24 Apr 2018
9:30 am
2018/00021268
R v KARLIE ANN ELRINGTON TYRRELL
Criminal
Local Court
Mention (Police)
Unassigned
Burwood

I wonder if Karlie attended Court today after her last non-appearance?

 

[sleepinoz]

https://www.facebook.com/7newssydney/videos/2069001839790605/?hc_location=ufi

Karlie Tyrrell fails to appear in court

 

[SouthAussie]

https://www.facebook.com/7newssydney/videos/2069001839790605/?hc_location=ufi

Karlie Tyrrell fails to appear in court

Ohhhhh ... she is in Cumberland Hospital in the mental health unit. Sounds like more than panic attacks now. I hope her boys are okay.

 

[Bohemian]

https://www.facebook.com/7newssydney/videos/2069001839790605/?hc_location=ufi

Karlie Tyrrell fails to appear in court

Ohhhhh ... she is in Cumberland Hospital in the mental health unit. Sounds like more than panic attacks now. I hope her boys are okay.

Thanks sleep, I suspected as much. The stress of William’s disappearance* must have really hit home.

I hope her boys are in the care of someone who is stable too, SA.

From what I’ve heard about public mental health wards, especially the PECC units, they are far from therapeutic places. If I were her family, I would organise for her to use her Sunday Night interview fee to get her into a private clinic ASAP. That is, if she still has it. Poor love, I wouldn’t wish mental ill health on anyone.

ETA (*not to mention being fodder for MSM after she was named)

 

[Bohemian]

Alternatively, the ‘someone [who] knows something’ could step up with the information needed to recover William and end her mental and emotional pain.

 

[sosocurious]

Ohhhhh ... she is in Cumberland Hospital in the mental health unit. Sounds like more than panic attacks now. I hope her boys are okay.

Seems it is a long stay. Wonder if it is a voluntary or involuntary admission?

 

[sosocurious]

Thanks sleep, I suspected as much. The stress of William’s disappearance* must have really hit home.

I hope her boys are in the care of someone who is stable too, SA.

From what I’ve heard about public mental health wards, especially the PECC units, they are far from therapeutic places. If I were her family, I would organise for her to use her Sunday Night interview fee to get her into a private clinic ASAP. That is, if she still has it. Poor love, I wouldn’t wish mental ill health on anyone.

ETA (*not to mention being fodder for MSM after she was named)

I guess that would depend on whether it is a voluntary or involuntary admission.

Disclaimer
The legal and other information contained in this Section is up to date to 30 January 2015.

3D.2: Involuntary patients in private hospitals
Private hospitals can treat involuntary patients under the Mental Healh Act 2007 (NSW). To do so, the NSW Government must have approved designated the private hospital for this purpose.There are currently no private hospitals in NSW with approval to treat involuntary patients under the Mental Health Act 2007 (NSW).

The same procedure applies for you to be made an involuntary patient in a private hospital as in a public hospital.

3D.3: Behaviour in a private hospital
If a private hospital does not like the way you are behaving, it is allowed to ask you to leave. Private hospitals are less likely to be tolerant of what they consider to be disruptive behaviour than public hospitals. Arranging admission to another private facility in these circumstances is likely to be difficult, however unfairly you think the first hospital has treated you. The only alternative could be to be admitted to a public psychiatric hospital or unit.

http://mhrm.mhcc.org.au/chapter-3/3d.aspx#3|D|2

 

[kiwi50]

Well lets hope someone from Karlies extended family will step in this time to take care of her boys.