Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #38

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I went to Kendall on my way home from holidays. My visit was brief due to circumstances. I went to the cemetery. I saw the pathway and walked along it a little way but returned to my car. There was no one around. I noticed the topes of the houses that can be seen right at the edge of the cemetery from Ellendale, but the houses at the end of Benaroon were much further away. They were not visible. I went to Benaroon which was strange after seeing it so many times in the media and looking at satellite pictures, it was at once the same but different. Benaroon is not nearly as long as I imagined, the vacant block across from the FGM's former home now has a new home on it. No cars on the street, no one visible, the houses are set back but not that far, anyone could be observing you. Although a lot of people live around the area, it is really a sleepy little town as far as towns go down the East Coast of NSW. Benaroon Drive is not far from the rest of the town either. I drove down Batar Creek road and onto Stoney Creek Road through Middle Brother national Park. I only passed one other vehichle and I was in there for about 1/2 an hour driving. If he was in there he could be anywhere, it is massive and roads leading off to all sorts of places, but vehichles would be noticed by others as they are infrequent. The road is very stoney and shakey so I can see how there may have been a chance that something was dislodged from a vehichle. I followed that path and came out on the Pacific Highway at John's River. There had been a missing 2 year old boy the year before at a property in that location and he was found on the same property after 11 hours. That case came back to me again as I left Middle Brother. The main feeling I got from driving around was that if it was opportunistic, the person would have had overpowering feelings to do something like this, it is so brazen, so high risk of being seen, and it makes me think they couldn't help but repeat this behaviour again. I find it very difficult to believe this was an opportunistic abduction unless there had been other abduction attempts in the area. IMO

i remember the missing two year old at johns road, the person who found him was unknown, the whole incident seemed very strange......
Missing 15 hours: Who found Tyler, asks his mum
Ms Kennedy said the identity of Tyler’s rescuer still remains unknown
Missing 15 hours: Who found Tyler, asks his mum
 
i remember the missing two year old at johns road, the person who found him was unknown, the whole incident seemed very strange......
Missing 15 hours: Who found Tyler, asks his mum
Ms Kennedy said the identity of Tyler’s rescuer still remains unknown
Missing 15 hours: Who found Tyler, asks his mum

Yes, it did seem strange. I was always a little afraid that something had been inflicted upon that small boy while he was missing. It is not something one would read about, as we tend to keep info like that private. But when the boy's mum said he was having trouble sleeping now .....
 
I went to Kendall on my way home from holidays. My visit was brief due to circumstances. I went to the cemetery. I saw the pathway and walked along it a little way but returned to my car. There was no one around. I noticed the topes of the houses that can be seen right at the edge of the cemetery from Ellendale, but the houses at the end of Benaroon were much further away. They were not visible. I went to Benaroon which was strange after seeing it so many times in the media and looking at satellite pictures, it was at once the same but different. Benaroon is not nearly as long as I imagined, the vacant block across from the FGM's former home now has a new home on it. No cars on the street, no one visible, the houses are set back but not that far, anyone could be observing you. Although a lot of people live around the area, it is really a sleepy little town as far as towns go down the East Coast of NSW. Benaroon Drive is not far from the rest of the town either. I drove down Batar Creek road and onto Stoney Creek Road through Middle Brother national Park. I only passed one other vehichle and I was in there for about 1/2 an hour driving. If he was in there he could be anywhere, it is massive and roads leading off to all sorts of places, but vehichles would be noticed by others as they are infrequent. The road is very stoney and shakey so I can see how there may have been a chance that something was dislodged from a vehichle. I followed that path and came out on the Pacific Highway at John's River. There had been a missing 2 year old boy the year before at a property in that location and he was found on the same property after 11 hours. That case came back to me again as I left Middle Brother. The main feeling I got from driving around was that if it was opportunistic, the person would have had overpowering feelings to do something like this, it is so brazen, so high risk of being seen, and it makes me think they couldn't help but repeat this behaviour again. I find it very difficult to believe this was an opportunistic abduction unless there had been other abduction attempts in the area. IMO
Hi, frogwell. I have some questions about your drive, but please don't feel obliged to answer them!
- Did anything change your ideas about the case? (e.g. surprises; contradictions; questions you hadn't thought of before)
- If you drove through Kendall first, which streets did you take and why? (e.g. because of GPS navigation; or working it out on a map beforehand; or following street signs; or just heading in the direction that seemed most likely)
- When you drove up Benaroon Drive, was it easy to see FGM's house while driving, or did you need to stop first? If you stopped, where did you park?
- Did you notice the slope of the driveways at FGM's (both the upper one to the carport and the lower one to the garage)? Do they go up or down to the house? I can't tell from photos.
- Was there an obvious place on the street to turn around, or is the road wide enough to do a U-turn wherever you want?
- If you went past Nos. 51 and 52, could you see FGM's patio area where the Spiderman photo was taken?
- When heading back out past FGM's, is it possible for a driver to see FGM's house when looking through the side windows, or would that only be visible for a passenger?
 
Yes, it did seem strange. I was always a little afraid that something had been inflicted upon that small boy while he was missing. It is not something one would read about, as we tend to keep info like that private. But when the boy's mum said he was having trouble sleeping now .....
it has been covered before however, I would like to recap the coincidences in this disappearance and WT's. Friday, mid morning, visiting another property which boarders on state fosrest, playing with older sister, boys, events are 16 months apart and the two towns are about 25km distance from each other via the Pacific Highway, some of the same volunteers are involved in the search for both children, ( I found that on facebook, communication at the time of the 1st child's disappearance amongst SES volunteers), different police. Manning Lake police used in the 1st missing child, Port Macquarie police in WT's case... I think. Tyler may well have become lost, but if he was taken and then returned, there was little regard for his health and survival taken. Applying that theory to WT, it could be that he was dumped alive to be found, but did not survive... this is just a theory.
 
Hi, frogwell. I have some questions about your drive, but please don't feel obliged to answer them!
- Did anything change your ideas about the case? (e.g. surprises; contradictions; questions you hadn't thought of before)
- If you drove through Kendall first, which streets did you take and why? (e.g. because of GPS navigation; or working it out on a map beforehand; or following street signs; or just heading in the direction that seemed most likely)
- When you drove up Benaroon Drive, was it easy to see FGM's house while driving, or did you need to stop first? If you stopped, where did you park?
- Did you notice the slope of the driveways at FGM's (both the upper one to the carport and the lower one to the garage)? Do they go up or down to the house? I can't tell from photos.
- Was there an obvious place on the street to turn around, or is the road wide enough to do a U-turn wherever you want?
- If you went past Nos. 51 and 52, could you see FGM's patio area where the Spiderman photo was taken?
- When heading back out past FGM's, is it possible for a driver to see FGM's house when looking through the side windows, or would that only be visible for a passenger?
I'll do my best
- I came into Kendall via Kew after exiting the Pacific Highway. Kew and Kendall seem like a street away from each other, they are very close.
- I used my memory and expected to come into a main street that way but I didn't, the 1st place I came across was Miss nellies cafe, which sits alone and is not near other shops, stopped there, and then followed that road which took me uphill to an established residential area, after a while that didn't seem right so I headed back to the cafe, just before the cafe was a turn off, 2 street names were familiar, Batar Creek Rd and Albert Rd. I knew i wanted to go down both those streets, so i took Albert Street to the cemetery. Upon my return from there I went to Batar Creek Road. It was shorter from the beginning of BCR to Benaroon than what I expected it to be.
- Benaroon drive has a slight kink in it but you can see the FGM's property by the time you have passed the 1st property on Benaroon Dr. I noticed the trees but could not see the house well behind the tree tops as I approached up the street. I did not stop but drove slowly. Most of the observation of the house was from the side to rear of the house where the sundeck is.
- the lower driveway is pretty parallel to the street, it might rise slightly at the roller door, I remember the last time I saw the most recent photo of the driveway for a sales campaign it was more defined and the hedges around it had been cut back, it had become more overgrown again. The driveway leading to the carport is parallell to the road as well. The boarder between the FGM's back yard and the last house on Benaroon drive has a chicken wire fence running along it.
-I turned at the end of the street, There are tire marks heading into the forest, I did a 3 point turn as it was single lane at that part of the road. It does not widen at the end of the stree like a lot of dead end streets do.
-I guess the main part of Benaroon Drive you could do a u turn, but I would more likely do a 3 point turn, there are no cars parked on the street, but i am mindful that you could park on both sides and drive in one lane down the middle, if that makes any sense.
_ the last house on the street, 52? I couldn't say whether you could see into the backyard patio from the house, I believe you can stand at points close to the fenceline and see the porch. the house opposite sits up very high and would have to be able to see over the carport roof, it's not the height, it's the angle of the house, again it may be possible to see into the back yard.
_ When leaving, it is possible to see the house from the driver's side of the car.

Overall impressions, was the town is very quiet, I might have passed one person on the street, but it is mid summer here and people may be away, all the streets are smaller and closer than what I imagined. Being my 1st time up the street it occurred to me that I still needed to concentrate on what I was doing, I couldn't imagine spotting a child near the road and deciding to take him within seconds. i couldn't imagine parking on that street out the front of that house and observing it for any length of time without seeming conspicuous or expecting someone to come up and ask me what I might be doing there, but then again i felt suspect just going into the street. The estate has been talked up a bit in the media, it is quite unremarkable, it doesn't stand out to me as being quite different from the rest of the town. On Albert road and a couple of other streets there has been the construction of a lot of houses that was happening at the time WT disappeared. Whilst in the cemetery, I remembered WT's FGF is buried there and BS's stepson and brother in law. For some reason that always bothers me. I believe I understand the cause of death of that stepson and wonder about the reasons why. Also, I imagine although it is an assumption that BS would be familiar with the area because of the cememtery and I think about his interest in 4 WD.
 
I'll do my best
- I came into Kendall via Kew after exiting the Pacific Highway. Kew and Kendall seem like a street away from each other, they are very close.
- I used my memory and expected to come into a main street that way but I didn't, the 1st place I came across was Miss nellies cafe, which sits alone and is not near other shops, stopped there, and then followed that road which took me uphill to an established residential area, after a while that didn't seem right so I headed back to the cafe, just before the cafe was a turn off, 2 street names were familiar, Batar Creek Rd and Albert Rd. I knew i wanted to go down both those streets, so i took Albert Street to the cemetery. Upon my return from there I went to Batar Creek Road. It was shorter from the beginning of BCR to Benaroon than what I expected it to be.
- Benaroon drive has a slight kink in it but you can see the FGM's property by the time you have passed the 1st property on Benaroon Dr. I noticed the trees but could not see the house well behind the tree tops as I approached up the street. I did not stop but drove slowly. Most of the observation of the house was from the side to rear of the house where the sundeck is.
- the lower driveway is pretty parallel to the street, it might rise slightly at the roller door, I remember the last time I saw the most recent photo of the driveway for a sales campaign it was more defined and the hedges around it had been cut back, it had become more overgrown again. The driveway leading to the carport is parallell to the road as well. The boarder between the FGM's back yard and the last house on Benaroon drive has a chicken wire fence running along it.
-I turned at the end of the street, There are tire marks heading into the forest, I did a 3 point turn as it was single lane at that part of the road. It does not widen at the end of the stree like a lot of dead end streets do.
-I guess the main part of Benaroon Drive you could do a u turn, but I would more likely do a 3 point turn, there are no cars parked on the street, but i am mindful that you could park on both sides and drive in one lane down the middle, if that makes any sense.
_ the last house on the street, 52? I couldn't say whether you could see into the backyard patio from the house, I believe you can stand at points close to the fenceline and see the porch. the house opposite sits up very high and would have to be able to see over the carport roof, it's not the height, it's the angle of the house, again it may be possible to see into the back yard.
_ When leaving, it is possible to see the house from the driver's side of the car.

Overall impressions, was the town is very quiet, I might have passed one person on the street, but it is mid summer here and people may be away, all the streets are smaller and closer than what I imagined. Being my 1st time up the street it occurred to me that I still needed to concentrate on what I was doing, I couldn't imagine spotting a child near the road and deciding to take him within seconds. i couldn't imagine parking on that street out the front of that house and observing it for any length of time without seeming conspicuous or expecting someone to come up and ask me what I might be doing there, but then again i felt suspect just going into the street. The estate has been talked up a bit in the media, it is quite unremarkable, it doesn't stand out to me as being quite different from the rest of the town. On Albert road and a couple of other streets there has been the construction of a lot of houses that was happening at the time WT disappeared. Whilst in the cemetery, I remembered WT's FGF is buried there and BS's stepson and brother in law. For some reason that always bothers me. I believe I understand the cause of death of that stepson and wonder about the reasons why. Also, I imagine although it is an assumption that BS would be familiar with the area because of the cememtery and I think about his interest in 4 WD.
Thank you! That's a great response and so much information.
 
Just to add to overall impressions, ( they are a bit contradictory) are, this is a really incredible abduction and feels so unlikely in such an ordinary place. From what I saw, if it was opportunistic, you would have to be a madman and people don't hide being a madman well. To not get caught, you would have to know the place really well or be a local, and it stands out to me, that many locals have been recorded in MSM saying they don't think it is a local who did this. I'm stating the obvious here, but this disappearance really disturbs me.
 
I was thinking today about Mr Savage's planned appearance at the inquest.

Was wondering if perhaps he (and his wife) were friendly with grandma and her husband over the years. Perhaps helped grandma out here and there ... perhaps even recommended Spedding to do the washing machine repair.
 
still not identified, of course theres probably heaps of reasons to stay anonymous but something just doesnt feel right

I would imagine that if this has any connection at all to William's case, it would be something the police have looked at/are looking at. As I understand it, when trying to solve a crime that has no clear perpetrator (in this case, a small boy's disappearance), similar events are studied ... particularly if they are in the same general area.


In the case of serial crimes it is relatively easy to link crimes together due to clear similarities in terms of modus operandi or descriptions of offenders.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...ing_and_investigation_systems_-_A_user's_view
 
I was thinking today about Mr Savage's planned appearance at the inquest.

Was wondering if perhaps he (and his wife) were friendly with grandma and her husband over the years. Perhaps helped grandma out here and there ... perhaps even recommended Spedding to do the washing machine repair.

That is a thought SA.
Was his repair anywhere business listed in the white pages?
 
I was thinking today about Mr Savage's planned appearance at the inquest.

Was wondering if perhaps he (and his wife) were friendly with grandma and her husband over the years. Perhaps helped grandma out here and there ... perhaps even recommended Spedding to do the washing machine repair.

Good point SA
 
i remember the missing two year old at johns road, the person who found him was unknown, the whole incident seemed very strange......
Missing 15 hours: Who found Tyler, asks his mum
Ms Kennedy said the identity of Tyler’s rescuer still remains unknown
Missing 15 hours: Who found Tyler, asks his mum
... Even a 4 year old sister didn't disappear, just like in case little WT. Poor baby boy Tyler.
 
^^ This, please? I'm sure, I have seen an article with a portrait of Mr. S, his statement and the mention of the lawn mowing son. Recently, so-to-say. Maybe in Dec 2018.

I can't recall reading that PS son was the lawn mower man.
This has all been discussed thread ago.
But things are quiet waiting for the inquest.

This article back in Sept 2016 the Australian chose to withhold the name of the elderly man Paul who lived directly across from William grandmothers former house, and his son Sean.
They had watched friends and neighbours slowly drift from Benaroon. They spoke of the bloke that left - the recluse who felt intimidated and wanted out. We all know that story.

Where did the son of this elderly Paul reside? With his father opposite the former house of nana? Elsewhere on Benaroon? Or did he also eventually move on from Benaroon?

I still wonder who maintained nana's large lawns?

Nocookies
William Tyrrell: fear in Kendall where little boy disappeared
 
I can't recall reading that PS son was the lawn mower man.
This has all been discussed thread ago.
But things are quiet waiting for the inquest.

This article back in Sept 2016 the Australian chose to withhold the name of the elderly man Paul who lived directly across from William grandmothers former house, and his son Sean.
They had watched friends and neighbours slowly drift from Benaroon. They spoke of the bloke that left - the recluse who felt intimidated and wanted out. We all know that story.

Where did the son of this elderly Paul reside? With his father opposite the former house of nana? Elsewhere on Benaroon? Or did he also eventually move on from Benaroon?

I still wonder who maintained nana's large lawns?

Nocookies
William Tyrrell: fear in Kendall where little boy disappeared

Mr Savage was 70 at the time, so you would think his son would not be a youngster. Is likely to reside elsewhere.

Also, it doesn't take a lot to use a ride-on mower. As Mr Savage walked uphill on the bush track almost every day, you would think he was/is healthy enough to mow his own lawns. Presumably retired at that age also, he would have the time for the garden work. imo


Then aged 70, Mr Savage .....
“There’s a track up through the bush. I walk up to there nearly every day.”
What happened on the day William Tyrrell vanished?
 
Case name

R v Nathan Gardoll

Date

04 Feb

Time

9:00 am

Case number

2018/00393059

List number

-

Location

Supreme Court Sydney

Room



' A POI's child. Interesting to me, is that this person's cousins and uncles etc. have been on NSW court lists repeatedly since following them on the court lists since 2015.
 
Had I realised my post was going to have to be explained, I might have taken more time over it. I think in any crime there are people who might be considered collateral damage, merely because they are examined closely by media etc because they were implicated, neighbours, friends, post persons, delivery drivers etc.
others might feel it doesn't matter, that BS was collateral damage, human nature being what it is.

Hi GooseW, I'm not disputing your suggestion of the impact upon all those as you detailed as perhaps being implicated in any way in any crime, especially one as horrible & disturbing such as this.
However, I don't personally label that as 'damage' (as you determined, family members excluded momentarily )

Personally, I wish I was one of those 'neighbours, friends, post persons, delivery drivers etc.etc.' who may perhaps be able to remember any minute detail that may help in the solving of this little boy's disappearance,

My heart breaks for all those who have lost loved ones, but most particularly at this moment & in the sentiments of this forum, my thoughts are with William's parents, sister & extended family members. They have been dealt the cruelest & most inexplicable of blows, the damage of which I'm sure will be forever imprinted on their lives. That's the damage I find most relevant.
Anyone else will either get over the wobble quite quickly or deservedly repent at leisure - IMO.

Having said that, I'm intrigued by your bolded comments, your need to bold, and the punctuation applied.

I accept that I may be incorrectly interpreting same, and I truely hope so, as IMO, this forum is not about attacking or defending BS, or anyone else. It's about examining the facts as presented in MSM, and currently BS is presented as a POI so naturally his behaviour etc will be examined.

If anyone has presentable information to counter his POI status, or to advance the culpability of anyone else, I'd certainly welcome that information.

All Said Is My Own Personal Opinion Only ...
 
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