Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #47

[they'll get you]

Just putting a map pic here to visually show ... the old tennis club location (2014) can be seen near the bridge over the Camden Haven River. Still some flat areas where the courts were.
The blue tennis courts of the current tennis club location can be seen at the end of Laurel Street, on Orara.

View attachment 204242
Google Maps

I remember we sleuthed the cameras along the way from Kendall.

If this camera was installed in 2014, it’s pointing the wrong way.

Outside the Op Shop on Comboyne St.

 

[rxume]

I wonder if he even went searching at all.
I was thinking his previous run in's with the law may have made him a bit anti police. So he hightailed back inside until he had no choice but to join the line search and let the police look through his home.

I have been thinking this myself!

 

[Ms Kite]

Oh, I think that Mr Chapman likely twigged that it might have been William in the vehicle much later than he says.
I think he probably complained to his friends about the hoon drivers and people being unsafe with a child in the vehicle, more than thinking it was a missing boy in the vehicle.

I also think that could be why the relative of the police officer did not pass the message along. Because the message the relative got was one about hoon drivers and a possibly unrestrained child.

It could be that the third party that did report it to the police also heard about the hoon drivers and unrestrained child, and thought to themselves 'that might have been William' and reported it as a good citizen should.

It is probable, to me, that Mr Chapman is doing all he can do to save face - at this point in time. While still passing his later thoughts along, eventually.

I believe Ron Chapman is being truthful in his account of what he thinks he saw and why he didn't go to police sooner.

I also think he probably harbours considerable guilt and regret for not following it up.

Hindsight is often 20/20...

 

[JLZ]

I wonder if he even went searching at all.
I was thinking his previous run in's with the law may have made him a bit anti police. So he hightailed back inside until he had no choice but to join the line search and let the police look through his home.

But if he was really preparing to take his brother home from hospital, he had a perfect excuse already. He didn't have to fake searching. He could have said sorry etc, jumped in his car and been gone.

 

[SouthAussie]

Just say PS did snatch him, where would/ could he have put him??

I was under the impression that sniffer dogs didn't detect any trace of William outside of FGM's boundary. I've also only even seen reports that suggest there was no evidence of William found at PS's property, during any of the (many) searches or in the bushland nearby.

He was also at home when a neighbour was doorknocking everyone to alert them to William's disappearance.

To me, that means his window of opportunity was small. Not impossible... just small. That also suggests that there is a finite radius of where he could have gone in that window.

I get that it is suss that he searched on his own and had time where he was unaccounted for but it would've been an extremely risky manouvre to relocate William whilst everyone was searching. I just don't see PS as being sneaky enough to pull that off...

Just thinking out loud.

If it was shown that he had disposed of clothing though, that would be very concerning...

Where would/could he have put him?


(The red circle being Savage's house)


Without discounting the 20% failure rate of sniffer dogs. Or that we have never seen that sniffer dogs were used in searching people's homes.
Or the fact that William could have been moved around on Friday, Saturday and Sunday during searches alone.

Or that the high risk and narrow window of opportunity that anyone took in abducting William was equally as high and narrow.


Detectives working on the disappearance of William Tyrrell say his suspected kidnapper would have taken tremendous risks.
"There was only a narrow window of opportunity to take William," said Dr Sarah Yule, NSW Police Force's senior forensic psychologist, in comments released this morning.
Police profiler says suspected William Tyrrell kidnapper highly opportunistic

 

[sosocurious]

But if he was really preparing to take his brother home from hospital, he had a perfect excuse already. He didn't have to fake searching. He could have said sorry etc, jumped in his car and been gone.

Yep that too.

 

[SouthAussie]

But if he was really preparing to take his brother home from hospital, he had a perfect excuse already. He didn't have to fake searching. He could have said sorry etc, jumped in his car and been gone.

He may not have been fake searching all of the time (if that is what he was doing). He may have been moving William, and/or making sure that no-one could discover him.

 

[Ms Kite]

Where would/could he have put him?

View attachment 204307 View attachment 204308
(The red circle being Savage's house)


Without discounting the 20% failure rate of sniffer dogs.
Or the fact that William could have been moved around on Friday, Saturday and Sunday during searches alone.

Or that the high risk and narrow window of opportunity that anyone took in abducting William was equally as high and narrow.


Detectives working on the disappearance of William Tyrrell say his suspected kidnapper would have taken tremendous risks.
"There was only a narrow window of opportunity to take William," said Dr Sarah Yule, NSW Police Force's senior forensic psychologist, in comments released this morning.
Police profiler says suspected William Tyrrell kidnapper highly opportunistic

I think it's considerably less risky to have snatched William and taken him out of the area than to have snatched and stashed him close by and potentially had to relocate him, that's all.

I think there is equal weight that RC could've witnessed the first scenario ( someone snatching William and high tailing it out of there) and that PS being close enough to snatch and him and potentially trying to cover up his tracks.

There is also the chance that PS assisted someone else, or witnessed something or had no involvement whatsoever.

 

[Loxoli]

He may not have been fake searching all of the time (if that is what he was doing). He may have been moving William, and/or making sure that no-one could discover him.

I agree. IMO, the inquest helped establish that there is virtually no one who can confirm PS’ whereabouts from when AMS knocked on his door (11am? From memory) and he went to the BGM’s house (for a short period) until he was seen on the street by his BIL (after 1pm?).

If he took William, he would have only have had to hide him for around 45 minutes to an hour, then he could have left and returned sometime before 1pm. I doubt PS house was searched thoroughly by anyone else in that first hour, so I do see how it is possible. All IMO.

Was PS’ car ever forensically searched that we know of? It looks as though the coroner/investigators have looked at this angle, since they asked a question about his car at the inquest.

 

[SouthAussie]

I think it's considerably less risky to have snatched William and taken him out of the area than to have snatched and stashed him close by and potentially had to relocate him, that's all.

I think there is equal weight that RC could've witnessed the first scenario ( someone snatching William and high tailing it out of there) and that PS being close enough to snatch and him and potentially trying to cover up his tracks.

There is also the chance that PS assisted someone else, or witnessed something or had no involvement whatsoever.

No-one is disagreeing with that.
It was a high risk venture all the way round. And stupid for a person in a Land Cruiser to have been speeding, and kicking up gravel, nearly going into the ditch, and calling attention to themselves.

I think we are looking at all the scenarios for the POIs at the inquest.

Although, they are very strange questions being asked of Savage - and other witnesses were asked about Savage - if they think he just witnessed something.

I am more than happy to move onto someone else. Anyone can jump in here with some stimulating thoughts and move the convo on.

 

[sosocurious]

Sorry all. I do like to go back over old articles.

What a coincidence these two places were mentioned in msn so long ago.

September 17, 2014
Sniffer dogs and cadaver dogs found no scent in the yard, fuelling fears he may have been abducted.
The Sex Crimes Squad and investigators with expertise in unexplained disappearances of young children joined a team of 30 investigators on Tuesday.
Police are examining possible sightings from as far away as Casino.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...ved-alone-in-bush-police-20140917-10hy58.html

June 21, 2015
Mr Morcombe and his wife, who have set up the Daniel Morcombe Foundation, tirelessly visit schools to get across their message to youngsters to recognise danger, react by getting themselves to a safe place and then reporting it.
He said that they had taken their message to Herons Creek Public School, just five kilometres from where Daniel disappeared from his grandmother's home in September, 12 months previously.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...d-be-his-fourth-birthday-20150619-ghsesq.html

Please note the name in this article is wrong.

 

[Ms Kite]

No-one is disagreeing with that.
It was a high risk venture all the way round. And stupid for a person in a Land Cruiser to have been speeding, and kicking up gravel, nearly going into the ditch, and calling attention to themselves.

I think we are looking at all the scenarios for the POIs at the inquest.

Although, they are very strange questions being asked of Savage - and other witnesses were asked about Savage - if they think he just witnessed something.

I am more than happy to move onto someone else. Anyone can jump in here with some stimulating thoughts and move the convo on


.

I'm actually interested in everyone's theories and points of views and have been enjoying the discussion. I was only voicing my thoughts in case they triggered other ideas/ theories

 

[JLZ]

I agree. IMO, the inquest helped establish that there is virtually no one who can confirm PS’ whereabouts from when AMS knocked on his door (11am? From memory) and he went to the BGM’s house (for a short period) until he was seen on the street by his BIL (after 1pm?).

If he took William, he would have only have had to hide him for around 45 minutes to an hour, then he could have left and returned sometime before 1pm. I doubt PS house was searched thoroughly by anyone else in that first hour, so I do see how it is possible. All IMO.

Was PS’ car ever forensically searched that we know of? It looks as though the coroner/investigators have looked at this angle, since they asked a question about his car at the inquest.

The hiding time is all right but PS would have had to encounter William and conceal him somewhere temporarily well after returning from his first walk and before his wife left for bingo. And also be at home on the landline 9:59 to 10:07. Perhaps he was so often doing stuff in his sheds that his wife didn't notice when he wasn't around.

 

[SouthAussie]

The hiding time is all right but PS would have had to encounter William and conceal him somewhere temporarily well after returning from his first walk and before his wife left for bingo. And also be at home on the landline 9:59 to 10:07. Perhaps he was so often doing stuff in his sheds that his wife didn't notice when he wasn't around.

A big piece of the puzzle that we are missing is what is contained in Heather's statement.
If she was super busy preparing for her brother, then rushing to get ready for bingo, maybe spending time in the shower, and what time she actually left ... things like that.

 

[mussopossum]

Just say PS did snatch him, where would/ could he have put him??

I was under the impression that sniffer dogs didn't detect any trace of William outside of FGM's boundary. I've also only even seen reports that suggest there was no evidence of William found at PS's property, during any of the (many) searches or in the bushland nearby.

He was also at home when a neighbour was doorknocking everyone to alert them to William's disappearance.

To me, that means his window of opportunity was small. Not impossible... just small. That also suggests that there is a finite radius of where he could have gone in that window.

I get that it is suss that he searched on his own and had time where he was unaccounted for but it would've been an extremely risky manouvre to relocate William whilst everyone was searching. I just don't see PS as being sneaky enough to pull that off...

Just thinking out loud.

If it was shown that he had disposed of clothing though, that would be very concerning...

I would say that is likely why all the questions to PS about the big fat hole in the yard and the tin that was covering it at the time LE went there.

 

[mussopossum]

I wonder if he even went searching at all.
I was thinking his previous run in's with the law may have made him a bit anti police. So he hightailed back inside until he had no choice but to join the line search and let the police look through his home.

Good point. And if he did go searching did he go anywhere near Lyn in the Van in the bush who could verify him out there at that time?

 

[SouthAussie]

Sorry all. I do like to go back over old articles.

What a coincidence these two places were mentioned in msn so long ago.

September 17, 2014
Sniffer dogs and cadaver dogs found no scent in the yard, fuelling fears he may have been abducted.
The Sex Crimes Squad and investigators with expertise in unexplained disappearances of young children joined a team of 30 investigators on Tuesday.
Police are examining possible sightings from as far away as Casino.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...ved-alone-in-bush-police-20140917-10hy58.html

June 21, 2015
Mr Morcombe and his wife, who have set up the Daniel Morcombe Foundation, tirelessly visit schools to get across their message to youngsters to recognise danger, react by getting themselves to a safe place and then reporting it.
He said that they had taken their message to Herons Creek Public School, just five kilometres from where Daniel disappeared from his grandmother's home in September, 12 months previously.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...d-be-his-fourth-birthday-20150619-ghsesq.html

Please note the name in this article is wrong.

Interesting choice of schools, considering Frank Abbott's location. Coincidence?

Seems they might have, unsurprisingly, been onto Frank Abbott a long time ago.
I wonder what police have that could place him in Kendall on 12th Sept. Probably something to do with Geoff Owen, I would think.

Interesting, too ... possible sighting in Casino. Of all the places. Wish we knew if Savage went to visit his brother later on.

I also wish we knew what 'some evidence' Jubes has.

 

[katydid23]

However the same article also says ...

“At 9.45am, William’s foster mother took three photographs of the boy.“.

Which we now know isn’t actually true... there were at least 5 photos and they weren’t taken at 9.45 am

Just making the point that not all you read in the media is the truth ...

That statement is not really 'untrue.' IMO

She did take 5 pictures, but I thought that only 3 of them were just pix of William. The other 2 included FGM and his sister.

As for the time given, 9:45, that is just an approximate time, which is standard for a general article. At about 9:45 am she took a series off photos her family, on the deck.
I don't think the general public is concerned with a few minutes either side of (;45 for a proof of life picture.

I wouldn't say this article's not true. It is just not exact and not inclusive of all the details. JMO

 

[Warshawski]

No not at all, would be interested in what you call your ramblings,
Think i will change my username, that's twice i have been called "Kat" something and i'm not even a cat person haha. If it's too long of a name to write, "Kari" will do for me,

I'm so sorry Karinna - that was a typo, certainly not intentional

 

[katydid23]

Thanks. Hmm, his memory is terrible if he can't remember that. Wonder who told him he didn't?

I think investigators probably told him he didn't, after they looked through his phone records?

I think that his brother, being 4 hours away, likely had asked others, closer, for help as well.

It seems as though his brother was not calling him that day asking 'where are you?' So he likely got a ride home from a friend or neighbour, imo.