Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52

[JWSleuth]

So what is the verdict? After the last couple weeks in court what are people's thoughts to what verdict will come through in April?

I’m hoping they take into account that

1. PS did have surveillance by warrant for a time (so not random that he decided to tape the conversation)
2. The infighting in the team and difficulty in getting a straight answer on what was going on
3. That he took the recording under consideration of needing to being alone and potentially worried
4. That the team wanted to stop looking at PS and he thought it was a last ditch effort

I think he might still get a small charge for not following protocol after taking the recording outside of the warrant, but hope it will be an error in process rather than what the charge has stated.

 

[1968]

I hope if the first three recordings are found to be lawful they are allowed to be played at the inquest. Surely what the lead investigator for a majority portion the the last 5 years believed and what he captured on those recordings is relevant in the coronial inquiry.

 

[drsleuth]

10 News First Sydney
William Tyrrell's foster family has unleashed on NSW police, condemning the way the case has been handled.
@LiaJHarris
reports

10 News First Sydney on Twitter

Video at link.

 

[kiwi50]

If the judge finds Jubelin guilty, i think he will only get a slap with a wet bus ticket.

 

[drsleuth]

If the judge finds Jubelin guilty, i think he will only get a slap with a wet bus ticket.

I think he has no option but to find Gary guilty, what penalty he receives will be interesting.

Thankfully he was able to have this trial in public, this could easily have been all done in closed court if NSWPS had their way.

 

[stormyseas]

After HS died, PS walked around the town with an A4 picture of his wife around his neck. Jubelin thought this was strange.

NoCookies | The Australian *paywalled

 

[Blues Clues]

William Tyrrell foster family slam 'cavalier' police work

Jubelin had proved himself an honest man and Mr Savage's privacy had already been taken away by the NSW Supreme Court through surveillance warrants, Ms Cunneen said.

She said Jubelin's prosecution was an extraordinary attack on "a veteran homicide investigator with a totally unblemished record as a police officer who, if he has committed an offence, has done so in the dogged and determined and professional exercise of his duty".

So what is the verdict? After the last couple weeks in court what are people's thoughts to what verdict will come through in April?

Imo he has demonstrated and 'operational need' due to
1. failing surveillance equipment.
2. necessity to strike while the iron is hot for the success of a covert operation.

My opinion again, he has demonstrated legitimate reasons to protect himself. I'm not entirely convinced it was a 'lawful' right.

I think it's likely he will receive a fine. I'd be surprised if it is worse than that.... it's not as though he could ever be a repeat offender.

 

[Blues Clues]

After HS died, PS walked around the town with an A4 picture of his wife around his neck. Jubelin thought this was strange.

NoCookies | The Australian *paywalled

Was it 'around the town'? I thought it was around his house.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I’ve just caught up on the latest. Thanks to everyone for posting Jubes hearing and all updates. Far out! I’m hoping the coroner requests info from Gary for the inquest- how could she possibly not. He’s well versed on this entire case and the best hope at solving this.

Sorry if this has been discussed- I was curious and checked Benaroon drive via google earth, and I’m not getting how ps could have heard William and his sister “the children playing” from his home. There’s quite a bit of distance between the houses, and PS house is set back with amble frontage on his block. Was it possible for him to hear them?

Do you think he was out front some of the time, watching, waiting?
IIRC, there were other children down the street? Could he have heard them?

 

[stormyseas]

Was it 'around the town'? I thought it was around his house.

The article, which is written by Caroline Overington, refers to him walking around the “village.” I assume that means the town of Kendall. IMO

 

[Ciana]

Hello from Germany!

And hello from Scotland. I have followed this dreadful case from day dot, from both Australia and now Scotland. I am disgusted to the core at how GJ has been treated. He has given his all and does not deserve this carry-on. As an former judge's associate in the court of NSW, I know for a fact that it is not unheard of that officers of the law at times do things not exactly by the book but I have never known it to go this far. It is a witch-hunt, pure and simple, and politics is being played out here, at his expense, and regrettably, also that of William. The magistrate sounds fair and I hope and pray that GJ comes away from this a free man, in more ways than one. An earlier poster stated, quite rightly, that he is a man of honour. I second that. That are not enough GJ's to go round in this world and it is showing those who should know better in a very bad light. William is never far from my thoughts, and I know that you guys feel the same, I am so sad for his poor loved ones, I can only imagine what they are going through on a daily basis. Thank you for keeping this thread for William going, he deserves it and needs to be brought home, it has been far too long now. Bless you, William, wherever you are, you are not forgotten.

 

[stormyseas]

And hello from Scotland. I have followed this dreadful case from day dot, from both Australia and now Scotland. I am disgusted to the core at how GJ has been treated. He has given his all and does not deserve this carry-on. As an former judge's associate in the court of NSW, I know for a fact that it is not unheard of that officers of the law at times do things not exactly by the book but I have never known it to go this far. It is a witch-hunt, pure and simple, and politics is being played out here, at his expense, and regrettably, also that of William. The magistrate sounds fair and I hope and pray that GJ comes away from this a free man, in more ways than one. An earlier poster stated, quite rightly, that he is a man of honour. I second that. That are not enough GJ's to go round in this world and it is showing those who should know better in a very bad light. William is never far from my thoughts, and I know that you guys feel the same, I am so sad for his poor loved ones, I can only imagine what they are going through on a daily basis. Thank you for keeping this thread for William going, he deserves it and needs to be brought home, it has been far too long now. Bless you, William, wherever you are, you are not forgotten.

Well said.. and hello from Australia

 

[sleepinoz]

I think he has no option but to find Gary guilty, what penalty he receives will be interesting.

Thankfully he was able to have this trial in public, this could easily have been all done in closed court if NSWPS had their way.

I also don't think the magistrate has a choice. I think he will be found guilty of at least one offence.

I hope not because if he is it takes away his chances of becoming a Private Investigator.

Frequently Asked Questions - NSW Police Public Site

Q. What offences will disqualify me from holding a licence?
A. The following offences are grounds for mandatory refusal of an application for a CAPI licence (including a CAPI Master licence).

If the applicant (or close associate in the case of a Master Licence) was convicted within the last ten years or found guilty (with no conviction recorded) within the last 5 years of:

• offences involving violence, fraud, dishonesty or theft, being an offence punishable by imprisonment
• offences involving the unlawful possession or use of a firearm or other weapon
• offences involving the unlawful possession or use of a drug
• offences under Part 2 of the Surveillance Devices Act 2007, or under corresponding provisions of the law of the Commonwealth or of another State or Territory
• offences under the Telecommunications (Interception) Act 1979 of the Commonwealth.

 

[drsleuth]

And hello from Scotland. I have followed this dreadful case from day dot, from both Australia and now Scotland. I am disgusted to the core at how GJ has been treated. He has given his all and does not deserve this carry-on. As an former judge's associate in the court of NSW, I know for a fact that it is not unheard of that officers of the law at times do things not exactly by the book but I have never known it to go this far. It is a witch-hunt, pure and simple, and politics is being played out here, at his expense, and regrettably, also that of William. The magistrate sounds fair and I hope and pray that GJ comes away from this a free man, in more ways than one. An earlier poster stated, quite rightly, that he is a man of honour. I second that. That are not enough GJ's to go round in this world and it is showing those who should know better in a very bad light. William is never far from my thoughts, and I know that you guys feel the same, I am so sad for his poor loved ones, I can only imagine what they are going through on a daily basis. Thank you for keeping this thread for William going, he deserves it and needs to be brought home, it has been far too long now. Bless you, William, wherever you are, you are not forgotten.

Great post Ciana, thankyou

 

[Blues Clues]

The article, which is written by Caroline Overington, refers to him walking around the “village.” I assume that means the town of Kendall. IMO

Yes that's what it says in CO's article, I'm questioning if it's correct as I recall reading or hearing during the trial, he was wearing it around his neck whilst walking around his home. I don't have time just now to look for it.

 

[Green beans]

Do you think he was out front some of the time, watching, waiting?
IIRC, there were other children down the street? Could he have heard them?

I think for PS to have heard them he’d have to be close enough to see them, from memory PS went for his walk prior to Williams family going outside that morning

 

[Georgy]

I’ve just caught up on the latest. Thanks to everyone for posting Jubes hearing and all updates. Far out! I’m hoping the coroner requests info from Gary for the inquest- how could she possibly not. He’s well versed on this entire case and the best hope at solving this.

Sorry if this has been discussed- I was curious and checked Benaroon drive via google earth, and I’m not getting how ps could have heard William and his sister “the children playing” from his home. There’s quite a bit of distance between the houses, and PS house is set back with amble frontage on his block. Was it possible for him to hear them?

He claims he heard them playing...although he has his radio up high as he may be hard of hearing?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I also don't think the magistrate has a choice. I think he will be found guilty of at least one offence.

I hope not because if he is it takes away his chances of becoming a Private Investigator.

Frequently Asked Questions - NSW Police Public Site

Q. What offences will disqualify me from holding a licence?
A. The following offences are grounds for mandatory refusal of an application for a CAPI licence (including a CAPI Master licence).

If the applicant (or close associate in the case of a Master Licence) was convicted within the last ten years or found guilty (with no conviction recorded) within the last 5 years of:

• offences involving violence, fraud, dishonesty or theft, being an offence punishable by imprisonment
• offences involving the unlawful possession or use of a firearm or other weapon
• offences involving the unlawful possession or use of a drug
• offences under Part 2 of the Surveillance Devices Act 2007, or under corresponding provisions of the law of the Commonwealth or of another State or Territory
• offences under the Telecommunications (Interception) Act 1979 of the Commonwealth.

Does anyone remember the NSW Police bugging enquiry?

The investigation looked into allegations of improper surveillance on 113 police officers during an internal police probe between 1998 and 2001. Warrants for the phone taps were obtained with false or inappropriate information given to magistrates, the inquiry heard.
......

The outcome -

What were the key recommendations?

* Consider establishing a Public Interest Monitor in NSW, with functions similar to Queensland and Victorian models, to oversee surveillance device and telephone intercept warrants.

* Apologise to people inappropriately named in listening device and telephone intercept affidavits and warrants, and to others whose conversations were recorded without authorisations, while also destroying records of these exchanges.

* Joint task force operations between NSW Police and the NSW Crime Commission be reviewed to ensure formal reporting structures, clear lines of authority, supervision and training.
NSW phone bugging scandal: key aspects

I will be shocked and dismayed if Jubelin is given anything more than a fine, if indeed, he's found guilty, it would be hypocritical. Maybe, a public apology?

Jubelin wasn't taping an ex girlfriend or an neighbour for nefarious reasons. Yes, he was wrong but he believed he was covered by operational standards, he was investigating a serious crime, a 3 yr old boy was missing and he used his judgment about the poi, and he decided to tape those conversations. We've heard his reasons and they sit well with me.

 

[mussopossum]

IMO A couple of things could happen. I can't see any way for GJ to avoid a charge relating to recording without a warrant. Even considering all the reasons.

I personally understand why he felt he needed to immediately go to see PS when PS called him. Building rapport with PS was important at the time, we've heard.

IMO I think there's a lot the public isn't seeing. So it'll be interesting to see what the focus is on at the inquest in March.

Yeah would be a lot that is not in open court or discussed due to the ongoing case for William, I am looking forward t when this resumes in March

 

[mussopossum]

He claims he heard them playing...although he has his radio up high as he may be hard of hearing?

And considering that he is caught talking to himself several times after William went missing have to wonder if he imagined hearing children playing as well...