Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #60

[PrimeSuspect]

I don't suppose a Mr Big thing would work, now that everyone knows how it works, criminals included.

I don't have a suspect in mind.

I still think William could have wandered off and found a hiding place he couldn't get out of.

Me too!

 

[katydid23]

The 7 minute marker does my head. FF - "There was a little bit of confusion if William was with me".

I thought FF would have arrived into a "panic", "mayhem", "chaos" situation when he arrived home - not just "a little bit of confusion". Why did FM not call FF the second she could not find William and keep trying until she reached him? I don't know a parent that would not have been terrified and calling their partner not stop until they answered. A missing child is pretty URGENT.

But I don't think there was really any solid belief on her part the WT was with her husband. She was watching her son playing and running around, and her husband had already left. So there was NO reason to call him and see if the boy was with him at that point.She already knew he didn't leave with his dad.

The confusion was at the very end, when she couldn't find him, she wondered, hopefully, if Dad had returned and picked up William for some reason, unbeknownst to her. It was just wishful thinking, she knew that wasn't what happened. But that was just a thought she had just before her husband returned.

That ^^ is explained somewhere, but I don't remember where it was written.

 

[Inplainsight]

The FA theory is heavily reliant on the cars which the FM saw parked on the road. The neighbours dispute that they were ever there.

Artwork of the 2 cars have varied. The white car initially did not look like later versions. First it was TJ's car then RP's car. It does not engender public trust.

The FM was specific about No hub caps - but that car in the picture, it just looks like it was made to fit the crime.

 

[Loxoli]

Does anyone have an explanation for why the dogs wouldn’t have alerted on the FGM’s car if that was the mode of transport? I’m struggling to understand how the dogs wouldn’t have taken the officers straight to the FGM’s car if he was taken away in the boot..

I’m guessing it’s possible the dogs did, but FP’s could have explained it away but saying he had been in the car for some reason? It’s also possible that the car wasn’t there when the dogs were. If it was not of interest to officers, then the FFC, FGM or other family members could have had the car at another location. For example, maybe the FFC’s sister was using the car elsewhere while the dogs were at the FGM’s house. This would have seemed innocuous at the time, but in hindsight could have been very well planned by the FFC or others.

Any thoughts?

 

[Detective Willy]

So there are 5 full time investigators working on this case now and there were 26 previously. It sounds like DCI Laidlaw has been zeroing in on previous Foster Parents for a while. The recent Where’s William Tyrrell podcast says he refused to make eye contact with them and was shaking his head when they were giving their testimony at Williams inquest. FP say he was very cold towards them. No wonder they wanted GJ in charge- he did not suspect them and DL does - and they knew it IMO.

 

[they'll get you]

I think this is a ploy to have someone slip up and say something, and if it doesn't work they definitely look bad IMO. Also the police minister and everyone sounded so confident the other day, I can't wrap my head around it, unless of course police had to sound confident to get the funding required for this search .. I just don't know.

Imagine the delight the true perp would be having in his cell. Someone couldn’t wait to tell anyone who’ll listen to his boasts.
I love undercover cops.

 

[katydid23]

OK so if you were a little bit confused and thought William may be with his Dad you then get in the car and drive down to the bush? You don't call Dad and ask if William is with you first??? This is the very part that I am not buying. How you would react if your child was missing and how you would not see the urgency to communicate this with your partner?

She never thought that WT had gone off with Dad when Dad left. She knew her boy was home playing with his sister---it was just at the very end, when she was outside looking and calling for him---she suddenly thought maybe her husband had just returned and saw WT and picked him up. So when her husband pulled ups, she said urgently and hopefully, is Will with you?

Of course he was surprised because he knew that she knew he hadn't taken the boy to town with him---it was just a panicked kind of question---a hopeful explanation...

 

[PinkPower]

Does anyone have an explanation for why the dogs wouldn’t have alerted on the FGM’s car if that was the mode of transport? I’m struggling to understand how the dogs wouldn’t have taken the officers straight to the FGM’s car if he was taken away in the boot..

I’m guessing it’s possible the dogs did, but FP’s could have explained it away but saying he had been in the car for some reason? It’s also possible that the car wasn’t there when the dogs were. If it was out of interest to officers, then the FFC, FGM or other family members could have had the car at another location. For example, maybe the FFC’s sister was using the car elsewhere while the dogs were at the FGM’s house. This would have seemed innocuous at the time, but in hindsight could have been very well planned by the FFC or others.

Any thoughts?

The dogs pick up scent from contact with the local terrain. If he was wrapped in something and carried to car, there wouldn't necessarily be a scent. Just like there wouldn't be a scent if he was picked up and carried off by an abductor. IMO

 

[BGirl88]

Also they did a pull up nappy knowing he would be asleep once at Kendall so they pulled over to a servo down the road not sure if it was open or closed got WT out of the car did a pull up nappy I always thought that was odd why not do it at mcdonalds, then FF slept with WT, FM slept with daughter i thought that was odd too, you would think the married couple sleep together and brother and sister sleep together, I don't understand why they didn't stay at home everyone sleep in there own beds then FF hav phone conference from home at 9 or 10am then all head down to Kendall and get there at a decent time during the day before the Friday arvo traffic, why bolt down in the arvo/night when they could of goen Friday during the day

I’m one to travel at night with my kids because they don’t travel well in the car and I can have a peaceful drive while they sleep. We also sometimes sleep one adult with one child because one of my kids will always wake the other one up.

 

[Loxoli]

The dogs pick up scent from contact with the local terrain. If he was wrapped in something and carried to car, there wouldn't necessarily be a scent. Just like there wouldn't be a scent if he was picked up and carried off by an abductor. IMO

Yes, so the scent would have been in the car if William was, right?

 

[katydid23]

The dogs pick up scent from contact with the local terrain. If he was wrapped in something and carried to car, there wouldn't necessarily be a scent. Just like there wouldn't be a scent if he was picked up and carried off by an abductor. IMO

So all one has to do is wrap the body in something before you throw it in the trunk, and later that night a cadaver dog wouldn't be able to pick up the scent? I don't think it works that way.

Cadaver dogs can pick up scent from buried remains, bodies under concrete, and can pick up the scent from area the body was once placed, wrapped in a tarp or not. JMO

 

[PinkPower]

Yes, so the scent would have been in the car if William was, right?

Not necessarily if he was wrapped in something. It depends on many things. It depends on if he was wrapped in something, how long he was in the car, if there was bleeding, etc.

If he was wrapped in something nonporous, like a tarp, probably no scent. If he was wrapped in a blanket which is porous, probably a scent.
It also depends on the dogs used at the time. Some dogs are trained to pick up the scent of blood or a deceased body, and not the living scent of a person.

If he was wrapped in something nonporous and it was discarded, most likely no scent.
JMO.

 

[they'll get you]

What is to be gained for a person in a relevant field to drive prices down in a particular area? Anything?

It’s what a buyer is prepared to pay and what a seller is willing to accept. Somewhere in between is a sale price.

I doubt people would want to live in that hell hole.
Look at the life it’s offering….no thanks!

 

[PinkPower]

So all one has to do is wrap the body in something before you throw it in the trunk, and later that night a cadaver dog wouldn't be able to pick up the scent? I don't think it works that way.

Cadaver dogs can pick up scent from buried remains, bodies under concrete, and can pick up the scent from area the body was once placed, wrapped in a tarp or not. JMO

They can only pick up a scent if their body made contact with the terrain. Scents don't linger in the air. They can only pick up the smell of a deceased body or body tissue if it made contact with the terrain or item it touched. JMO.

 

[Tigerlily75]

IMO, the theory that makes the most sense here is that police has been suspecting foster family for months but have been missing solid evidence. Best option there for them was to hide those supicions, and watch them closely until they incriminated themselves in a conversation. What I think has happened is that surveillance has picked up an assault on the foster child. My guess is that police would have preferred to not intervene because they didn't have the info they still need for the WT case, but ethically they had to protect the foster child and remove them, which blew their surveillance operation.

Look at the wording in the article below.
(William Tyrrell: police strike force investigating disappearance charge man and woman with assault of a child)

That's totally in line with the assault being recorded or witnessed by surveillance.

IMO what's caused the recent flurry of activity is the fallout of the surveillance operation being blown. Removing the child from the family means revealing to the foster family their suspicions and the fact they've been watched, something the police had gone to great pains to hide until this point. So now police have had no choice but to move very quickly and prematurely even though they don't have enough information yet on where WT's body is or what happened. That theory would also make sense with the amount of drama around the digging etc... If you have been forced to reveal your suspicions before you were ready, you would want to make it look like you have enough incriminating evidence already to force the suspect to panic and make a mistake. Let's hope it works and find what's happened to WT, but I don't think things right now are unfolding the way police would ideally have wanted them to unfold.

This is what I’ve been thinking too, you put it so succinctly.

 

[BGirl88]

I don't suppose a Mr Big thing would work, now that everyone knows how it works, criminals included.

I don't have a suspect in mind.

I still think William could have wandered off and found a hiding place he couldn't get out of.

To me, this seems like the simplest explanation. But then why couldn’t he call out for help if he was stuck. I guess if he had fallen into a body of water there’d be no sound… but then apparently he wasn’t the type of kid to just wander off…

The other thing that irks me is the sound of the loud bird cry mentioned by the FFC. It’s either a). Something she vividly remembers hearing because she initially may have thought it was the sound of a child screaming out or b). Something she’s said to cover up the sound of William actually screaming… ?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Expert throws doubt on foster mum theory

"Dr Xanthe Mallett says she has never been suspicious of William Tyrrell’s foster mum on The Project
A criminologist who has closely followed the William Tyrrell case said she has never viewed the little boy’s foster mother as “suspicious”."

The link discusses another expert who found FFC to be credible. We must not get swept away in a frenzy of blame too soon, (Although I secretly am.)

We don't know why the police have allowed this to be so public but perhaps it is to reign in anyone who may have had contact with FFC to come forward with anything suspicious they have seen.

Maybe this is just the final unfollowed theory that hasn't been thoroughly covered. Perhaps they are absolutely at a dead-end and this is all they have left. The findings of the 18 month Coronial Inquest are supposed to be handed down next year. Maybe this search just has to be done to make sure all possibilities have been meticulously explored.

Reporter Michael Usher interviewed the FPs multiple times and said to Mark Ferguson the other day he didn't find inconsistencies in their retelling, this would've been a great opportunity for him to say, 'hang on...i remember something odd....'
It's not a guarantee the FPs aren't responsible, but those who've spoken to the FP's believed their story or if some prefer, were fooled by their story.

 

[katydid23]

They can only pick up a scent if their body made contact with the terrain. Scents don't linger in the air. They can only pick up the smell of a deceased body or body tissue if it made contact with the terrain or item it touched. JMO.

That's not the way I understand it. There are things called 'residue scents.' I am not sure that wrapping the body would totally prevent residue scents from remaining in the trunk.

The Truth About Cadaver Dogs: 5 Things You Didn’t Know.
5. Residue Scents: Lastly, did you know that cadaver dogs can detect residue scents? That’s right — if a body or body part was initially placed somewhere and moved by the killer elsewhere, the dog can still identify the scent of death in the area, providing experts with more critical information in closing the case.

 

[PinkPower]

That's not the way I understand it. There are things called 'residue scents.' I am not sure that wrapping the body would totally prevent residue scents from remaining in the trunk.

The Truth About Cadaver Dogs: 5 Things You Didn’t Know.
5. Residue Scents: Lastly, did you know that cadaver dogs can detect residue scents? That’s right — if a body or body part was initially placed somewhere and moved by the killer elsewhere, the dog can still identify the scent of death in the area, providing experts with more critical information in closing the case.

You can only have a residue scent if it touched something.
If the body never touched the interior of the car (because it was wrapped in something nonporous), and no tissue leaked out of the body into the interior of the car. There is no residual scent to detect.

IMO.

 

[Loxoli]

Does anyone have an explanation for why the dogs wouldn’t have alerted on the FGM’s car if that was the mode of transport? I’m struggling to understand how the dogs wouldn’t have taken the officers straight to the FGM’s car if he was taken away in the boot..

I’m guessing it’s possible the dogs did, but FP’s could have explained it away but saying he had been in the car for some reason? It’s also possible that the car wasn’t there when the dogs were. If it was not of interest to officers, then the FFC, FGM or other family members could have had the car at another location. For example, maybe the FFC’s sister was using the car elsewhere while the dogs were at the FGM’s house. This would have seemed innocuous at the time, but in hindsight could have been very well planned by the FFC or others.

Any thoughts?

Just to clarify, I’m wondering about the general sniffer dogs that detected William’s scent at the driveway, not the cadaver dogs.