Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #61

[BigT]

<modsnip> POI can mean someone who is co-operating. OK so, put the FFC and FGM aside for the time being, because one may be co-operating and one is deceased. Given the recent information, and there is a lot, and it is for a reason, what are we looking for? <modsnip>

 

[nunaloon]

Yep, my hands go in the air

oh and that too

 

[Milisi]

18 months ago they started working on the current POI

Counsel assisting Gerard Craddock SC said that the inquest had already uncovered new leads.
“As a consequence of the evidence called here, there has been a witness who we had no idea about who has come forward and is speaking to police,” Mr Craddock said. Inquest into missing toddler William Tyrrell halted abruptly

This is gold!

 

[PrimeSuspect]

The temperature in Kendall in the month of September 2014 range - 21.7 c - 28.6 c

The temperature is important to note because heat rapidly increases decomposition, a smell would be detected by humans and dogs in the middle of the day if a body was hidden in the house or car. jmo

 

[Kiri]

If WT had a terrible accident (sorry to be graphic), how would FFM know he had passed/had non survivable injuries? And not just think he was unconscious/severely injured etc? I guess she would be first aid trained (through foster training), but if we assume <modsnip: Removed info/reference based on sleuthing> not a Dr. able to pinpoint cause of death/time of death??
How would she assume death by miss adventure??
Pulses can be weak, eyes open etc etc. All IMO.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I just read in an article somewhere that the 96 minutes begins when MFC left for town, but I keep seeing different times he left. This would make sense in that they’re saying there’s only one POI, suggesting police believe MFC is not part of it. (Not sure where FGM fits into all this!).

If he left at 9.20am then it would be 96 minutes to the 000 call at 10.56am.

I thought the same, but that discounts the proof of life pic. idk

 

[nunaloon]

There is a lot of evidence so true. I am waiting for evidence from LE, and LE stated its all relevant which I am pleased to hear because to me it sounds like they are looking at everything with fresh eyes.

 

[JBowie]

Because of the “proof of life” photo at 9.37am, correct? So a time change on that photo would change everything, we have to assume that after investigation, it was determined that the photo was indeed taken at 9.37am.

IIRC, the 'fosters' stated that the discrepancy was because the camera's clock was still set to Bali time, which happens to be 2 hours behind NSW (3 hours behind when NSW is on DST as now).

The foster family had been on a holiday to Bali at some point prior.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Because of the “proof of life” photo at 9.37am, correct? So a time change on that photo would change everything, we have to assume that after investigation, it was determined that the photo was indeed taken at 9.37am. And MFC had left for town already. Otherwise, something could have happened earlier and MFC could have taken the body on the way to town and dumped it somewhere. That’s why getting the time of that photo was so crucial. So that’s one POI and a 96 minute window they’re focusing on.

If the pic timestamp is incorrect, it's 2 hours earlier, that means both FP's are involved. I theorised this several days ago like everyone else, I suppose that's why I've moved onto other theories because I felt I'd exhausted that one.
If the timestamp is proven to be correct without a doubt...well..very tight timeline, not impossible though.

 

[Waverider]

I'm trying to figure out where the 96 minutes starts, it's such a precise number of minutes too, I suppose every minute counts in this new theory.

Let's say the accident happened between 9.38 am and 10.00 am. Immediately, FM bundled up the body and put in the boot, got a shovel from under house or shed, remained in same clothes OR changed clothes and back again after carrying out plan.

9.15-9.30 am - FD left the house. Three pics taken of WT on verandah - 9.37am proof of life pic.

9.37 am to 11.13 am ? (the 96 minutes which doesn't make sense unless she arrived back to house 7 minutes after police arrived.)

Did FM drive down the riding school road after FD arrived back home and after making the 000 at 10.56am?

Police arrived 11.06 am.

Did FM drive off approximately 10.00am and returned around 10.25 am and began the pretend search around the streets?
This gave her approximately 25 minutes to drive down to riding school road or nearby, park the car, carry the body into the bush, dig a hole and cover, returned back to home. Was she dirty, sweaty, disheveled? Did she have time to wash up and change clothes? Did she take shovel back to shed?

Did FM drive off at approximately 10.30am when FD arrived? Returned to house before 10.56am to make 000 call. This gave her around 20 minutes to carry out her plan as above, did she appear disheveled to FD and neighbours?
This isn't correct because she was knocking on neighbour's doors around 10.35 am.

Last option, after the accident between 9.38 am and 10.25 am, FM hid body in roof cavity or in the car? And carried out above plan much later in the day or night? This isn't credible either because the scent would've been picked up around FGM's car or in the house?
Police would've checked all through the house and the cars because of the high incidence of kids hiding in the house or car. They're not going to waste time and resources without completing this search.

I hope this makes sense, please pick it a part because I'm sure I've missed something.

JMO

Given that the police arrived at the house at 11.06, then perhaps the 96 minutes starts at 9.30am? This is around the time that the MFC left the house, or perhaps he left a little before this. I wonder if 9.30am is the time at which his car is captured on CCTV in town during the work call? I haven’t been able to find that detail as yet

 

[Tigerlily75]

I'm trying to figure out where the 96 minutes starts, it's such a precise number of minutes too, I suppose every minute counts in this new theory.

Let's say the accident happened between 9.38 am and 10.00 am. Immediately, FM bundled up the body and put in the boot, got a shovel from under house or shed, remained in same clothes OR changed clothes and back again after carrying out plan.

9.15-9.30 am - FD left the house. Three pics taken of WT on verandah - 9.37am proof of life pic.

9.37 am to 11.13 am ? (the 96 minutes which doesn't make sense unless she arrived back to house 7 minutes after police arrived.)

Did FM drive down the riding school road after FD arrived back home and after making the 000 at 10.56am?

Police arrived 11.06 am.

Did FM drive off approximately 10.00am and returned around 10.25 am and began the pretend search around the streets?
This gave her approximately 25 minutes to drive down to riding school road or nearby, park the car, carry the body into the bush, dig a hole and cover, returned back to home. Was she dirty, sweaty, disheveled? Did she have time to wash up and change clothes? Did she take shovel back to shed?

Did FM drive off at approximately 10.30am when FD arrived? Returned to house before 10.56am to make 000 call. This gave her around 20 minutes to carry out her plan as above, did she appear disheveled to FD and neighbours?
This isn't correct because she was knocking on neighbour's doors around 10.35 am.

Last option, after the accident between 9.38 am and 10.25 am, FM hid body in roof cavity or in the car? And carried out above plan much later in the day or night? This isn't credible either because the scent would've been picked up around FGM's car or in the house?
Police would've checked all through the house and the cars because of the high incidence of kids hiding in the house or car. They're not going to waste time and resources without completing this search.

I hope this makes sense, please pick it a part because I'm sure I've missed something.

JMO

I just read in an article somewhere that the 96 minutes begins when MFC left for town, but I keep seeing different times he left. This would make sense in that they’re saying there’s only one POI, suggesting police believe MFC is not part of it. (Not sure where FGM fits into all this!).

If he left at 9.20am then it would be 96 minutes to the 000 call at 10.56am.

So I’m just thinking on this a touch more. With the 96 minute window, the police seem to be operating on three verifiable facts. Any other times given for any other activities are just people’s estimates (FM, neighbours, etc).

The three verifiable facts:
1. Footage of MFC in town at a certain time.
2. The 9.37am photograph of William.
3. The 000 call at 10.56am.

 

[Waverider]

So I’m just thinking on this a touch more. With the 96 minute window, the police seem to be operating on three verifiable facts. Any other times given for any other activities are just people’s estimates (FM, neighbours, etc).

The three verifiable facts:
1. Footage of MFC in town at a certain time.
2. The 9.37am photograph of William.
3. The 000 call at 10.56am.

And 11.06am when police arrived at the scene. The 000 call was at 10.57am FYI

 

[PrimeSuspect]

IIRC, the 'fosters' stated that the discrepancy was because the camera's clock was still set to Bali time, which happens to be 2 hours behind NSW (3 hours behind when NSW is on DST as now).

The foster family had been on a holiday to Bali at some point prior.

But that didn't satisfy the coroner, on the last day of the inquest, she ordered the timestamp pics to be forensically examined.
Imo, it's been done and not open to speculation anymore, if it were, FD would be a POI too. They both lied about when the pics were taken.
FP's went to Bali July/August 2014, so it's plausible the timestamp would be 2 hours behind, imo.

 

[Tigerlily75]

IIRC, the 'fosters' stated that the discrepancy was because the camera's clock was still set to Bali time, which happens to be 2 hours behind NSW (3 hours behind when NSW is on DST as now).

The foster family had been on a holiday to Bali at some point prior.

Correct. BD’s lawyer wanted it examined further and we never heard an outcome (that I recall). But I can only assume at this point that it was found the corrected time of 9.37am was correct.

I really tried not use the word correct so many times but I just can’t, lol.

 

[JBowie]

But that didn't satisfy the coroner, on the last day of the inquest, she ordered the timestamp pics to be forensically examined.

What did forensics have to say? I have seen 'time corrected' photos. Were they not the result of forensics?

 

[SnoopyMcSnoopface]

Does anyone know how long the FFC stayed at the FGM house after WT went missing? - Forgive me if this has already been asked. I’m a longtime lurker.. first time participate.

 

[Tigerlily75]

And 11.06am when police arrived at the scene. The 000 call was at 10.57am FYI

Oops, thanks. Trying to figure out when the 96 minute window police have spoken of begins and ends. It would likely end with either the 000 call or the arrival of police. So where does it begin? When MFC left for town, or photo time stamp? Unless there’s something else the police know that we don’t (which I’m sure is lots of things).

 

[HilaryHormone]

Maybe growing up?

See I did consider WT’s sister, but wouldn’t she have been considered a known witness?

‘there has been a witness who we had no idea about who has come forward and is speaking to police,” Mr Craddock said

Inquest into missing toddler William Tyrrell halted abruptly

I understand why i was thinking the same thing. We ( support workers ) are not allowed to hug, show special attention or be out of view of cameras in the places I have worked. the kids tend to throw their arms around u and I stand there with my arms being squished to my sides

I worked in group homes for years prior to social work and found this a really difficult ‘grey area’. On one hand, the kids absolutely need love and affection, and as someone working with them, you do come to care about them. On the other hand, it can leave one vulnerable to allegations. Foster Care is a family oriented environment, but still a job that requires firm boundaries. Piling into bed together in the morning to watch cartoons etc is absolutely fine and normal, but I can see why people are shocked at the FC’s sleeping arrangements. Could have just been for that trip though, as they were out-with their routine.

 

[Waverider]

Oops, thanks. Trying to figure out when the 96 minute window police have spoken of begins and ends. It would likely end with either the 000 call or the arrival of police. So where does it begin? When MFC left for town, or photo time stamp? Unless there’s something else the police know that we don’t (which I’m sure is lots of things).

I suspect the 96mins begins with the time that MFC was spotted on cctv since:

• the footage independently verifies MFC was no longer at the house; and
• after this point, there is no one aside from the FFC who can verify that William is still at the house / alive.

I believe the 96mins must end when someone else is at the house who can verify William was not at the house, and the time can be independently verified, so either OOO call or when police arrived

 

[Trivento]

William Tyrrell case explained by Australia's greatest detective Rod Iddles | Daily Mail Online