Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #61

[minusfour]

So what has changed? The FGM has died, and <modsnip> foster child has allegedly been assaulted by the foster parents. GJ is out, and the police are now heading in a new direction. A new witness has come forward. The new witness could be associated with the FGM-perhaps she told someone something that they did not speak about until after she died?, with another foster child, or outside the family all together. (Where have they been in that case?)
Ron Iddles said (in Daily Mail) that the comments bagging GJ's investigation have no positive value, and this certainly seems to be true, even if the GJ investigation was flawed in some way.
The police seem to be certain of some facts, and happy to involve the media.
What is going on? Like everyone else, I'd love to know what happened to that little boy!

 

[Awakening]

I'm trying to figure out where the 96 minutes starts, it's such a precise number of minutes too, I suppose every minute counts in this new theory.

Let's say the accident happened between 9.38 am and 10.00 am. Immediately, FM bundled up the body and put in the boot, got a shovel from under house or shed, remained in same clothes OR changed clothes and back again after carrying out plan.

9.15-9.30 am - FD left the house. Three pics taken of WT on verandah - 9.37am proof of life pic.

9.37 am to 11.13 am ? (the 96 minutes which doesn't make sense unless she arrived back to house 7 minutes after police arrived.)

Did FM drive down the riding school road after FD arrived back home and after making the 000 at 10.56am?

Police arrived 11.06 am.

Did FM drive off approximately 10.00am and returned around 10.25 am and began the pretend search around the streets?
This gave her approximately 25 minutes to drive down to riding school road or nearby, park the car, carry the body into the bush, dig a hole and cover, returned back to home. Was she dirty, sweaty, disheveled? Did she have time to wash up and change clothes? Did she take shovel back to shed?

Did FM drive off at approximately 10.30am when FD arrived? Returned to house before 10.56am to make 000 call. This gave her around 20 minutes to carry out her plan as above, did she appear disheveled to FD and neighbours?
This isn't correct because she was knocking on neighbour's doors around 10.35 am.

Last option, after the accident between 9.38 am and 10.25 am, FM hid body in roof cavity or in the car? And carried out above plan much later in the day or night? This isn't credible either because the scent would've been picked up around FGM's car or in the house?
Police would've checked all through the house and the cars because of the high incidence of kids hiding in the house or car. They're not going to waste time and resources without completing this search.

I hope this makes sense, please pick it a part because I'm sure I've missed something.

JMO

If we use the time of 7.39am as the starting point then 96 minutes later puts us at precisely 9.15. Is 9.15 when the FF got home?

 

[nightrider17]

So the 96 Minutes - starting at 9:30 - 11:06 till when Police arrive. If someone guilty thinks Police -will first do a search of the property/house - then a search within a certain radius of the house (due to thinking child may have wondered off). How far can a small child walk in a given time frame. In say up to 2o minutes where would he have reached by walking. Not far. The distance from Benaroon drive to the Cobb and Co Road is 3 minutes by car - 20 minutes walk (by a adult??). So if I wanted to outwit Police I would take victim outside what is possible to be found in this search - so past a 20 minute walk. Maybe as far as Foxes Creek Road. Just to eliminate Police searching first for where he might have wondered to. Like AJ - Police search a certain area/formula for what they believe is possible. Maybe the child didn't pass by injury (blood) maybe - something that doesn't leave any blood. Due to FM stating he was only missing for"5 minutes" doesn't really begin to cover the time frame of even just her driving down to Cobb and Co Road/Batar Creek Road and back- that would be 6 minutes there and back and checking inside the house and outside - that would be adding up to about 15 minutes just in searching. So the hes only been gone "5 minutes" means that she left him unattended for while making tea/phone calls? I think as others "DDDddd" and "Prime Suspect" and "1968" suggest she didn't want to admit that he was unattended for maybe 20 minutes or longer. My only other thought is someone who lives in the street - due to them having a legitimate reason to be there/outside and has knowledge of good areas to conceal a body.

 

[Milisi]

I know these cars exist! We sleuthed this in the early days.

There is a photo where both the white AND the grey vehicles are clearly seen.


Here is the photo of the white one.
View attachment 322941

Can anyone help find the photos of both cars?

I want to get off this merry-go-round.

There would be cars there if the real estate agent was taking pics for sale. Belonging to them.

 

[Adirfle]

New and first post here.

Just after WT went missing, I delved into another place of interest to me. Kew Country Club is only a couple of kms from where he supposedly disappeared from... 6 mins by car.
On looking online recently for any renovations or works that could have been done on the grounds in 2014, I found a Youtube clip for December that year when they had been preparing the golf course (15th hole) to lay grass. May be a long shot, but possibly worth a thought if by now the grounds are well covered. I believe there was sand and gravel being prepared to be covered by grass. That could be an area of interest if works were underway in September. I haven't got a link for the Youtube video as I don't know how to get it here from my phone, so posting a screenshot FYI.

My opinion only.

 

[HilaryHormone]

HH that witness was Mrs Baker who lives on Miles Dr across the railway line from where FA lived. She heard a child scream. After her friend pointed out to her FA was a poi she then came forward.

Thank you, couldn’t find that info anywhere! FA hasn’t been ruled out has he?

A search warrant is for a place, not an item. Once police have authority to search a location, they are able to take any evidence of any crime. For example, if police have search a house on a murder investigation, and they find drugs in he house, hey can seize the drugs and charge someone with drug offences.

Would it have justification for the warrant, i.e. for the purpose of gathering evidence based on x, y, z ?

 

[Cleaver Greene]

Thank you, couldn’t find that info anywhere! FA hasn’t been ruled out has he?



Would it have justification for the warrant, i.e. for the purpose of gathering evidence based on x, y, z ?

The affidavit in support of the warrant would have that information but it’s not publicly disclosed. defence lawyers can’t even get that information except in very very limited circumstances.

 

[bfew]

Gary stated that the strike force eliminated the foster parents again following the formal interviews with the foster parents and nothing being uncovered during the covert operation ....
....
- Gary stated that he wanted to rule out the parents (biological and foster) prior to announcing the million dollar reward.
- Gary stated when he was part of the investigation there was no physical evidence implicating the foster parents ...

Unfortunately, publicly ruling out suspects at any point of a criminal investigation might be mis-interpreted by those that have evidence (current or future) about the ruled out suspects. Misinterpreted to have them think that Police are saying that the ruled out suspects could not have possibly been in any way responsible. Causing those with evidence involving the ruled out suspects, to not come forwards with it, or to omit it from any body of evidence they do provide to Police.

 

[Waverider]

I thought the same, but that discounts the proof of life pic. idk

Yes, I agree - imo, while the FFC’s explanation re the photo timestamp discrepancy is plausible and perhaps can’t be proven to be false, I don’t think they are relying on that photo for a timeline

 

[stormyseas]

One thing that really bugs me is: why did the FM move forward the departure time of the trip to Kendall? She says doing so meant having to collect William and his sister early from day care/school, and that arriving early surprised her mother who was expecting them the next day.

Good question. Especially with a child who was having behavioural issues, routine would be so important. So why disrupt that routine by picking him up early from daycare? IMO

 

[HilaryHormone]

The affidavit in support of the warrant would have that information but it’s not publicly disclosed. defence lawyers can’t even get that information except in very very limited circumstances.

Thank you, that does make sense

 

[Awakening]

Reports in September and more recently said a new witness had come forward. MSM says new witness or previously unknown witness.

If those reports are accurate, then who could be a new witness?

Because any family, friends, neighbours or associates wouldn't be considered a new witness surely?

It's not a known witness with new information it's a whole new witness.

Interested in your theories on possible new witnesses.

I wondered if perhaps FGM was in a nursing home and she confided in one of her carers. If she had a form of dementia it may have initially been dismissed as incoherent ramblings. Perhaps after her death the carer came forward and whatever she revealed to LE fit in with their suspicions?

 

[Violet77]

We do know that the bio family lived and raised kids in the suburbs of Sydney and that the FM's family had long ties in Kendall. It seems unlikely to me that there would be any bio family connection with Kendall.

Actually it was reported a few years back the very strange coincidence that William’s BGM had taken up residence with someone who had connections with two POIs, one has since been publicly ruled out, not sure if TJ was though.

Police question best friend of William Tyrrell's grandmother

 

[Estelle]

So I’m just thinking on this a touch more. With the 96 minute window, the police seem to be operating on three verifiable facts. Any other times given for any other activities are just people’s estimates (FM, neighbours, etc).

The three verifiable facts:
1. Footage of MFC in town at a certain time.
2. The 9.37am photograph of William.
3. The 000 call at 10.56am.

If we assume that FFC's timeline could be false and full of embellishment, then could FFC have taken WT (alive or dead) in the car soon after MFC left? IMO it would have been easier for her to put him in water somewhere weighted down. She would then not need a shovel and would not have dirtied her clothes.

 

[Waverider]

Some grabs:

“Close to giving up, or giving in.”

A foster care social worker says William Tyrrell’s foster mother wrote these words in an email just three days before he disappeared.

William had been acting up, and his foster mother was distressed about it.

The rediscovery of this email appears to explain at least some of this week’s dramatic developments in Australia’s most famous missing persons case.

Police then found an email dated September 9, 2014 – three days before William disappeared – in which social workers described William’s foster mother as being concerned about his behaviour.

She was at the time trying to adopt William. He had started calling her Mummy. In her triple-0 call, she called him “my son”.

This was causing tension between the two families, who were still tussling over who would get to raise him.

According to the social workers, William’s foster mother said she was “close to giving up or giving in”. She was concerned about William being “emotional” after contact visits with his biological mother and father.

He was also having difficulty sleeping.

The social workers talked among themselves about “a certain amount of distress” and “dysfunction” being normal in foster children.

One then said the foster mother had told them she was “heading to her mother’s house this weekend” – and it was, of course, from her mother’s house, in the quiet village of Kendall on the NSW mid-north coast that very weekend, that he went missing.

So, that’s the first thing that happened to trigger this week’s new search.

. . .

They didn’t really look at William’s foster grandmother. She settled the sale of the house about six months after William disappeared and she died in March. There is no suggestion that she was involved, but it seems that she only ever gave one brief formal statement to police.

It’s possible that she’s telling the social workers about William’s behaviour not because she can’t cope.. Sounds to me like the FFC was establishing a paper trail of evidence in support of the FFC’s wishes that the children see the BP less frequently or perhaps not at all.
MOO

 

[Edgar70]

Did FM call FF immediately advising him William was missing or as he was on the road to search the surrounding streets?

 

[Random-me]

William was last seen playing with his sister at his foster grandmother’s home on Benaroon Dr in Kendall on September 14, 2014.

His foster grandmother said she went inside briefly to make a cup of tea and when she returned the three-year-old was nowhere to be found.

https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...d/news-story/c70aa2a46d6d77412ab5b2ce86dfde57

This reads like FGM was supervising and went to make tea. Where was FM?

 

[Tigerlily75]

I reckon the pressure is on. I think WA police handling of CS case and amazing police work has put spotlight on this case. I remember reading references to William Tyrrell still missing whilst they were still looking for CS

They've been working on this angle for 18 months and acting on coronial orders after new information came to light. It was published in the Daily Telegraph in early September. All that was before the CS case.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

- Gary stated that he wanted to rule out the parents (biological and foster) prior to announcing the million dollar reward

Snipped by me for emphasis .. 'wanting' to rule out the parents for any reason seems problematic to me.

Unfortunately, publicly ruling out suspects at any point of a criminal investigation might be mis-interpreted by those that have evidence (current or future) about the ruled out suspects. Misinterpreted to have them think that Police are saying that the ruled out suspects could not have possibly been in any way responsible. Causing those with evidence involving the ruled out suspects, to not come forwards with it, or to omit it from any body of evidence they do provide to Police.

Not only that but their anonymity means nobody can know if they saw them or not on the day, doing anything suspicious, being somewhere other than where they said they were etc. Nor can someone say they saw any suspicious behavior either before or afterwards from the FP because nobody knows who they are, unless close associates.

A person of interest could mean they are just ruling her out again in light of recent events, if so I don't understand why police invited so much media attention and the police commissioner said:

NSW Police Commissioner Mick Fuller said in a national radio with 2GB that he believes the investigation 'will be solved' and confirmed there is 'one person in particular (they) are looking at'.

One suspect, three key search areas in renewed search for William Tyrrell's remains

 

[kiwi50]

many years

Reports in September and more recently said a new witness had come forward. MSM says new witness or previously unknown witness.

If those reports are accurate, then who could be a new witness?

Because any family, friends, neighbours or associates wouldn't be considered a new witness surely?

It's not a known witness with new information it's a whole new witness.

Interested in your theories on possible new witnesses.

I wondered if perhaps FGM was in a nursing home and she confided in one of her carers. If she had a form of dementia it may have initially been dismissed as incoherent ramblings. Perhaps after her death the carer came forward and whatever she revealed to LE fit in with their suspicions?

A new witness could very well be someone whose loyalties have changed after FGM’s death.
In NZ when the police are appealing for information in very old cases, they often stress “peoples loyalties change” Inferring someone you gave an alibi or protected many year’s ago, no longer applies and its safe for you to speak up.