Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #62

[Mrs G Norris]

Yes, I think it was something like that. MOO

It is going to be interesting if they were wrong. Surely it can't just be because she didn't seem 'the type' .. although I am sure that helped.

 

[Estelle]

Those don't seem like believable motives to me.

I can believe maybe she is a psychopath and has no feelings and killed him.

But I don't believe her motive would be she didn't want to adopt him so she killed him. I guess I don't know enough about her to know if she was capable of doing so. Its just seems hard to accept, seeing her whole family sitting happily on that deck outside, playing and colouring pictures for her father's gravesite. And the whole time she is planning to kill the 3 yr old in the next few minutes, and dump him in the short time window that her husband was gone?

It reminds me of when an ex kills his ex after they separate and his ex partner has found a new partner. They think, "If I can't have you, nobody else will". IMO that is what could have been going on in FFC's mind with WT and she could not face many many years of his going to his bio parents for scheduled visits.

 

[JayWill]

It is going to be interesting if they were wrong. Surely it can't just be because she didn't seem 'the type' .. although I am sure that helped.

And in comparison to the birth mother who calls police rude names, they probably seemed perfect. Not that I blame to birth mother, she has been wronged IMO.

 

[The gavel]

If she has done this she has managed to snow multiple police and emergency responders, her husband, family, the media etc .. is this likely? Or is it simply because once police were convinced everyone else was convinced too, simply believing that if police had cleared her that was good enough.

They didn't think Kathleen Folbigg seemed the type either, even after the deaths of multiple babies.
Affluent, well spoken, etc. Gets some people a long way. Especially people who are used to working with the worst types of people in society.
I wonder if the Birth parents would have been given so much defacto trust? Doubtful. Socioeconomic bias affects everyone, even seasoned police. IMO

 

[JayWill]

It reminds me of when an ex kills his ex after they separate and his ex partner has found a new partner. They think, "If I can't have you, nobody else will". IMO that is what could have been going on in FFC's mind with WT and she could not face many many years of his going to his bio parents for scheduled visits.

If she did kill him, I don't believe it was planned. IMO, if she did, she lashed out at him, when he was being difficult. I believe that that is entirely possible to do with a child that she didn't bond with. I kind of took that, that it was the child's fault that she did not bond with him.

 

[Estelle]

There is a big difference between 'not bonding' with someone and 'killing them'---I'd like to know what their concrete evidence is.

A few of the things I have read don't seem convincing, imo.

The problem is that we do not about what type of personality she has (or perhaps mental illness). IMO

 

[Freddo Frog]

Welcome to my day (and night) job! And yes you sound like a typical caller. Many get frustrated with the questions. We have to ask though. Firstly to get you the right help, and also scene safety (weapons, gas leaks etc). We have to pass on details to the responding crews and questioning can bring up risk factors so they know what they’re walking into .

Unfortunately it doesn’t give me a much greater insight into the 000 call than anyone else. It is true that people have different reactions to same types of scenarios. I thought she was too calm, my colleague thinks she sounds normal. So there you go.

I taught my kids from a young age how to call 000 (if it was ever needed) and always emphasised the need to remain calm and factual. When they became teenagers and actually had need to call for an ambulance (I was having an MI that became an SCA as I was taken into resus) I recall being frustrated that they were, in my opinion, too calm and not getting the sense of emergency across to the dispatcher. Fortunately the dispatcher asked the right questions and knew what was happening and also dispatched the intensive care paramedic at the same time.

I don't envy you your job if you are an emergency services dispatcher; I have friends who are and I know how stressful the job can be (but also so rewarding, too). Thank you for doing a job I know I would not be able to do.

 

[BreakingNews]

I agree, again... fact is the FGM actually died last year!

I thought FGM died in Dec 2020, but it is now reported as March 2021.

 

[PolyDot]

I understand that, completely. I have followed hundreds of cases---been reading here since 2011 and before that was on another crime forum. So I know that there are plenty of murderous mums....

But for some reason I am not getting that vibe here. I could be totally wrong. Maybe while she was making his eggs and toast she was planning where to bury his little body after breakfast?

It's just that so many of the 'reasons' mentioned here seem innocent and explainable. The first one that got me was the one saying it was pointed out that FM said he was wearing his shoes when he went outside, and she knew it because he didn't like bindi or doggie poop.

OH NO---there was no bindi in the yard and the family dog was dead. BUSTED, she must be the prime suspect now.

That^^^ seemed silly to be put in an article as an example of their new findings. Plenty of other dogs probably pooped in their yard. And babies have tender feet age age 3. I am sure there were nettles or splinters or rocks that he didn't like when he was running around.

I am waiting to hear more about the alleged abuse charges before I decide to get onboard with this new development.

Totally agree - it could well be that FM is the perp .. but some discussion here has had very little to do with facts

 

[katydid23]

William is the victim. The FF were charged with child abuse. So the FD is also an alleged victim.

IMO The FF has enjoyed far too much anonymity and protection from scrutiny in this case.

Even if the FF is not responsible for the disappearance (which is highly doubtful IMO), there's the fact that a foster child (that is, somebody else's child who they were meant to be taking care of) was not adequately supervised and was taken. That makes the FM at the bare minimum, culpable to some extent.

IMO only.

So would you also say that CS's parents were culpable for her abduction from the tent?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

If she did kill him, I don't believe it was planned. IMO, if she did, she lashed out at him, when he was being difficult. I believe that that is entirely possible to do with a child that she didn't bond with. I kind of took that, that it was the child's fault that she did not bond with him.

I wonder if he hurt her with his tiger play, bit her for instance .. which triggered a severe reaction? They should have examined her IMO especially since she had grazes on her hands to see if she had any other injuries.

 

[The gavel]

If she has done this she has managed to snow multiple police and emergency responders, her husband, family, the media etc .. is this likely? Or is it simply because once police were convinced everyone else was convinced too, simply believing that if police had cleared her that was good enough.

Nearly everyone who commits a crime convinces people of their innocence, until they don't and the evidence catches up with them.

Also, we haven't had the ability to even view her facial expressions, so it's easier to manipulate behind a sheath of protection. She's been completely shielded from any scrutiny whether it be though the FACS guidelines or police or having anything about her removed off the internet.

If she did kill him, I don't believe it was planned. IMO, if she did, she lashed out at him, when he was being difficult. I believe that that is entirely possible to do with a child that she didn't bond with. I kind of took that, that it was the child's fault that she did not bond with him.

I agree that it was probably a snap decision, a frenzied attack, even. The reason I think this is because if she had planned it, her story wouldn't be full of gaping contradictions. If she planned it, she did a very bad job. However, covering it up, especially for 7 years with the expense and lives it's destroyed makes it a lot worse than a simple heat of the moment attack. IMO

 

[JudgeJudi]

These guys cost a bomb too.. Looking at $5K+ a day for a good defence lawyer

Attorney General's rates for Legal Representation (nsw.gov.au)

From your link:

"The Attorney General's rates (also referred to as AG's Rates or Attorney's rates) are rates set by the Attorney General payable to legal representatives (solicitors, Junior and Senior Counsel) engaged by and on behalf of Government departments and agencies and public officials".

$5,000? ... no, not even close.

"Before you accept the services of a lawyer, make sure you know what fees you're expected to pay. Some people rush to a lawyer in a panic, only to discover later they have a bill for thousands of dollars. Many barristers, for instance, charge between $1000 and $2000 a day. Senior barristers (QCs or SCs) can charge as much as $10,000 per day. Be careful!"

Lawyers

Or if you really want to be shocked ...

"The daily court fee for a junior barrister to work with a solicitor can start at $5,000. Senior barristers command around $10,000 a day. Those with special expertise, for example in an area like defamation, can charge $25,000."

The 'ugly' reality of your day in court — this is how much it actually costs

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

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There is an undercurrent of inciting conflict in this thread that is not in keeping with the spirit of Websleuths.

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[katydid23]

It reminds me of when an ex kills his ex after they separate and his ex partner has found a new partner. They think, "If I can't have you, nobody else will". IMO that is what could have been going on in FFC's mind with WT and she could not face many many years of his going to his bio parents for scheduled visits.

Really? I thought the motive most were pointing to was that she never bonded with him, didn't want to adopt him, but her husband really connected with him.

I hadn't heard anyone say she was so upset about his birthparents visits. Didn't they just visit once a month for an hour or so?

 

[Tigerlily75]

The one question that drives me nuts these days from any such business is "nearest cross street?"

In the era before GPS and Google maps, etc, that was a fair enough question, but these days?

And I am referring to when a specific suburban street address is given, not a location out in the bush with no street addresses.

It’s frustrating I agree, but it’s just an added layer of protection. The address is the most important thing to get right. You’d be surprised how many confusing and similar addresses there are out there, even in the boring suburbs. You can hear the dispatcher in FFC’s call .. she asks, asks again, but the caller doesn’t know so she moves on.

 

[Estelle]

They didn't think Kathleen Folbigg seemed the type either, even after the deaths of multiple babies.
Affluent, well spoken, etc. Gets some people a long way. Especially people who are used to working with the worst types of people in society.
I wonder if the Birth parents would have been given so much defacto trust? Doubtful. Socioeconomic bias affects everyone, even seasoned police. IMO

I agree with you about the similarity between Kathleen Folbigg and FFC but she killed more than one of her children.

 

[The gavel]

So would you also say that CS's parents were culpable for her abduction from the tent?

Very different isn't it. Somebody broke into what is equivalent of a dwelling, and stole their child.

Someone neglecting to watch their child who accidentally fell or was snatched is neglectful. IMO

It's like comparing leaving your computer on the footpath and someone taking it, to someone breaking into your home and stealing it.

Completely different. IMO

 

[JBowie]

The only time I have called 000 was some years ago on behalf of a woman in a home unit across the road screaming "Get away from me!"

I yelled "Do you need the police" and she said "Yes, call the police." I asked her for the unit number.

I called 000 and reported what I had heard.

The operator asked for the street and unit address, and my name and said that police are on the way.


When the police arrived they asked me what I had heard and to point out the window she was yelling from.

They were inside for about 20 minutes, and as they left thanked me for calling.

I said that if I hadn't, and it had escalated into a tragedy, then I would have belted myself up for not acting.

 

[Estelle]

If she did kill him, I don't believe it was planned. IMO, if she did, she lashed out at him, when he was being difficult. I believe that that is entirely possible to do with a child that she didn't bond with. I kind of took that, that it was the child's fault that she did not bond with him.

IMO Whether she might claim manslaughter or it was premeditated murder, IMO FCC was probably responsible.

 

[Green beans]

I watched the 000 transcript video, I actually think speech says a lot. Vocal inflection and intonation are the body language of the voice. The 60 min interview and police interview are worth watching for this.