Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #75

[JBowie]

IMO - Great post! I, too, have been interested in this case since the beginning & I’ve been through every scenario & gone back & forth on who could have taken WT & although at one point I did entertain the idea that FM might have done something to William, I just find it very difficult to believe that one person could fool so many police & for so long, common sense tells me that really shouldn’t be possible. I’m interested in what evidence they have that points in her direction & admit that I’ll be absolutely gobsmacked if it turns out the FM is guilty of anything to do with his disappearance. MOO

I'm on record here for having serious doubts about the FM's versions of events on the morning concerned. As I've said when I listen to her accounts and with her manner of speaking my BS detector is triggered.

I've also said that she strikes me as having a controlling personality and that she may well be the type who could remain calm and decisive in a crisis.

And I've said that I get the feeling that she's covering up something.

Despite the above, I remain of the opinion that she and her husband, if they are indeed covering up something, could not withstand intense individual interrogation, over and over again, without breaking/slipping up. Hardened and experienced crims can lie bald-faced to cops while under interrogation. I doubt that everyday citizens would be able to.

Like everyone here I want the answer but, with what I have read about the leaked police brief and intended charges, I very much doubt the answer will be forthcoming.

 

[Dannywood]

I'm on record here for having serious doubts about the FM's versions of events on the morning concerned. As I've said when I listen to her accounts and with her manner of speaking my BS detector is triggered.

I've also said that she strikes me as having a controlling personality and that she may well be the type who could remain calm and decisive in a crisis.

And I've said that I get the feeling that she's covering up something.

Despite the above, I remain of the opinion that she and her husband, if they are indeed covering up something, could not withstand intense individual interrogation, over and over again, without breaking/slipping up. Hardened and experienced crims can lie bald-faced to cops while under interrogation. I doubt that everyday citizens would be able to.

Like everyone here I want the answer but, with what I have read about the leaked police brief and intended charges, I very much doubt the answer will be forthcoming.

I don't think they have ever had a seriously hard interrogation. And I think they have slipped up which is why the new team may have reexamined the entire history of evidence. JMO

Add to that - the only public interviews they've done have been with people who are associated with Insight Communications - their PR company. Including Lia Harris. Have they been controlling the narrative from the get go? Looks that way.

All of the interviews are around their experience, their feelings, their version of events. How wonderful they are as foster parents.

Where is the pleading? Where is the desperate call to the "perpetrators"? Where is the grovelling? There's none. IMO

 

[JBowie]

Where is the pleading? Where is the desperate call to the "perpetrators"? Where is the grovelling? There's none. IMO

Parallels have been drawn with the Lindy Chamberlain case.

 

[LolaAngelina]

I don't think they have ever had a seriously hard interrogation. And I think they have slipped up which is why the new team may have reexamined the entire history of evidence. JMO

Add to that - the only public interviews they've done have been with people who are associated with Insight Communications - their PR company. Including Lia Harris. Have they been controlling the narrative from the get go? Looks that way.

All of the interviews are around their experience, their feelings, their version of events. How wonderful they are as foster parents.

Where is the pleading? Where is the desperate call to the "perpetrators"? Where is the grovelling? There's none. IMO

How is Lia Harris associated with Insight? What about Natasha Belling? How are the police associated with Insight?

 

[Dannywood]

They had lost custody so it is parental abduction. Absconded isn’t a legal term

Here's the definition in the Queensland Law Handbook

abscond
to depart in a sudden or secret manner, generally to avoid some legal proceeding.

Link: Glossary A-B.

And also here in the Federal Police Act

Abscond
For the purposes of this Part, other than subsection 46(2), a person is to be taken to abscond in connection with an offence if and only if:

(a) the person is charged with the offence; and

(b) a warrant for the arrest of the person is issued in relation to that information; and
.......

Link:

AUSTRALIAN FEDERAL POLICE ACT 1979 - SECT 42A Abscond

classic.austlii.edu.au

 

[Awakening]

Another person suing NSW police for being wrongly accused.

“A glamorous Sydney hairdresser whose gangster boyfriend was gunned down beside her in bed by masked assailants before she was arrested and wrongly accused of being involved in his execution is suing the NSW Police for millions.

Fatima Hage, 30, who claims she has PTSD, mental triggers and ongoing trauma from the ordeal, is suing the state for 'defamation and wrongful arrest'.

She was later wrongly accused of opening the door for the assassins and sending out a photo taken of the Sydney underworld figure's bloodied corpse on social media”

Her lover shot dead next to her in bed and $400k Lamborghini torched

A glamorous Sydney hairdresser whose gangster boyfriend was executed in a hail of bullets beside her in bed is suing the NSW Police for millions.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Dannywood]

How is Lia Harris associated with Insight? What about Natasha Belling? How are the police associated with Insight?

She's all over their website

Testimonials - Insight Communications

Industry : Clients : Ambassadors : Stakeholders INDUSTRY UNIVERSITY OF TECHNOLOGY SYDNEY – Dr Mai Hansford Clare Collins and Alice Collins model outstanding professional practice in their work for the not-for-profit and government sectors. They have contributed to student learning at UTS as...

insightcommunications.net.au

This part is particularly troubling, IMO.

The campaign has made a major difference to the media coverage of the case in multiple ways, including the way the investigation was portrayed. Having a singular point of contact for information relating to William’s family and planned events has made the job of media coverage much simpler and led to a more consistent approach to news stories surrounding the case. While questions about the ongoing investigation are still directed to police, any other information, most importantly, fact-checking, is dealt with by Insight.

 

[Awakening]

While appearance can be a precursor to how people are treated, so can things like spitting at police officers.

Treat the police with respect and they generally respond in kind.

imo

Yes, and that’s kind of my point. If you have history of violence and drug use you are going to face intense scrutiny because of your past behaviour.

Someone like me or FM is not.

But if a child goes missing then we should all face the same scrutiny, and Im not at all convinced this was the case here. JMO.

I’ve read posts on here citing they did face interrogation but personally I don’t see it.

I personally believe NSW police didn’t do enough at the very beginning (pre Gary) in treating the fosters as suspects.

Had they done this, then maybe WT would have been found. It may have also benefited the FM because she probably wouldn’t have to face what she’s facing today. Even something as basic as treating it as a possible crime scene from the get go. If she’s innocent, Im sure she now wishes the same.

JMO.

 

[Awakening]

They didn’t look to the foster agency to adopt. They started doing emergency placements. Unless you have a link that says otherwise? Adoption wasn’t discussed until they had both children in their care for some time. As per court documents, both children were in permanent care and there was no chance they were to be returned to the bio parents. It’s not unusual in that circumstance that the fosters may start looking into adopting them.

From what I’ve read, I lay the blame with FACS on this one. Adoption through the foster system is not the norm. Even less so when both bio parents are alive and saying they want their kids back. Would not have been a straight forward or inexpensive adoption and FACS should have been clear on this and managed expectations.

 

[LolaAngelina]

There’s nothing unusual about a campaign or charity having help with media etc. The morcombes themselves have many PR and marketing people they employ. I think what has been forgotten was that this campaign and website was set up by the foster parents, insight and the taskforce. I think people are making way too much of insights involvement. They aren’t involved in Williams disappearance so l’m not sure why they are even discussed let alone fixated on

 

[Awakening]

Here's the definition in the Queensland Law Handbook

abscond
to depart in a sudden or secret manner, generally to avoid some legal proceeding.

Link: Glossary A-B.

And also here in the Federal Police Act

Abscond
For the purposes of this Part, other than subsection 46(2), a person is to be taken to abscond in connection with an offence if and only if:

(a) the person is charged with the offence; and

(b) a warrant for the arrest of the person is issued in relation to that information; and
.......

Link:

AUSTRALIAN FEDERAL POLICE ACT 1979 - SECT 42A Abscond

classic.austlii.edu.au

If facs tried to take my kids I’d probably do the same. Or at least think very seriously about it. Foolish yes, but I get it.

Likewise, I would expect the police to suspect the bio’s of being the ones who took him, given they’d done it before. If police didnt immediately look into them we’d all be understandably up in arms.

 

[Awakening]

There’s nothing unusual about a campaign or charity having help with media etc. The morcombes themselves have many PR and marketing people they employ. I think what has been forgotten was that this campaign and website was set up by the foster parents, insight and the taskforce. I think people are making way too much of insights involvement. They aren’t involved in Williams disappearance so l’m not sure why they are even discussed let alone fixated on

I think people are discussing it because the FM is now a POI. I cannot think of a case where a POI had previously had their own PR campaign.

 

[Dannywood]

They didn’t look to the foster agency to adopt. They started doing emergency placements. Unless you have a link that says otherwise? Adoption wasn’t discussed until they had both children in their care for some time. As per court documents, both children were in permanent care and there was no chance they were to be returned to the bio parents. It’s not unusual in that circumstance that the fosters may start looking into adopting them.

Can you link me to court documents or other evidence that both children were never to be returned to their biological parents?

If that was true, why were they still in court trying to get them back 3 weeks before the disappearance?

The BM speaking at inquest: "I didn't agree [with adoption plans], I had heard about that ... they [case workers] said it wasn't happening, we were still trying to get the children back, we were at court," she told Deputy State Coroner Harriet Grahame.

 

[SouthAussie]

I’ve read posts on here citing they did face interrogation but personally I don’t see it.

Whether or not people think the foster parents have been subject to 'tough enough' interviews, the NSWCC hearing was not a piece of cake. That would have been tough.

 

[Dannywood]

Parallels have been drawn with the Lindy Chamberlain case.

People draw parallels to that case all the time. Poor Lindy, she doesn't deserve to be lumped with every single woman accused of a crime and consequently revictimised continually by this parallel.
This case has no parallels to Lindy's case, at all.

MOO.

 

[LolaAngelina]

Can you link me to court documents or other evidence that both children were never to be returned to their biological parents?

If that was true, why were they still in court trying to get them back 3 weeks before the disappearance?

The BM speaking at inquest: "I didn't agree [with adoption plans], I had heard about that ... they [case workers] said it wasn't happening, we were still trying to get the children back, we were at court," she told Deputy State Coroner Harriet Grahame.

The documents have been posted here and discussed many many times. If you run a search on FACS vs Smith you should be able to find it. It was known (on this forum at least) very early on that both children were in care of the minister until they were 18. There’s never been anything provided (court documents etc) that show the bio parents were “at court”. IMO they could have been seeking advice from a lawyer as to what their options were

 

[SouthAussie]

I think people are discussing it because the FM is now a POI. I cannot think of a case where a POI had previously had their own PR campaign.

The campaign started well before FM was named as a POI.
The Morcombe's campaign for Daniel is and has been of a professional PR nature, right from the get-go. I am pretty sure they didn't put that campaign together single-handedly.

Our People - The Daniel Morcombe Foundation

Our people Bruce Morcombe OAM “Our objectives in establishing the Daniel Morcombe Foundation are far reaching. We must protect our children! We can and will make a difference, ensuring that our communities are a safe place for them as it should be. Your support will assist us in providing an...

danielmorcombe.com.au

 

[JLZ]

HIS HONOUR: The child the subject of these proceedings – whom I shall call Julian – was one of four siblings. Julian was removed from the care of his mother at 7 months’ age because of concerns that he was at risk of harm (associated with domestic violence and drug abuse), and placed with foster carers. Julian’s sister, who is a year older than Julian and whom I shall call Sarah, had been removed from her mother’s care before Julian was born, and the Children’s Court had allocated parental responsibility for her to the Minister; she was later placed with the same carers as Julian, a week after he was. Subsequently, having found that there was no realistic possibility of restoration to their parents, the Children’s Court made final orders allocating parental responsibility for Julian and Sarah to the Minister until they attain 18; their care plans contemplate that they will remain in their placement with their current carers until 18. The other two siblings, who are younger than Julian, remain in their mother’s care, and there are apparently no current child protection concerns in respect of them.

Secretary, Department of Family and Community Services v Smith [2017] NSWSC 6 (23 January 2017)

 

[JBowie]

People draw parallels to that case all the time. Poor Lindy, she doesn't deserve to be lumped with every single woman accused of a crime and consequently revictimised continually by this parallel.
This case has no parallels to Lindy's case, at all.

MOO.

Your post raised emotional appearance/behaviour:

Where is the pleading? Where is the desperate call to the "perpetrators"? Where is the grovelling? There's none. IMO

Lindy was accused by the public of not being emotional enough. There is the parallel I refer to.

 

[Dannywood]

There’s nothing unusual about a campaign or charity having help with media etc. The morcombes themselves have many PR and marketing people they employ. I think what has been forgotten was that this campaign and website was set up by the foster parents, insight and the taskforce. I think people are making way too much of insights involvement. They aren’t involved in Williams disappearance so l’m not sure why they are even discussed let alone fixated on

The Daniel Morcombe Foundation campaigns to educate children about staying safe in physical and online environments and supports young victims of crime.

This is very different to a POI being in charge of what information is disseminated about their missing foster child.

Speaking of the Morcomb's, they have completely cut ties with the Where's William Campaign and I really hope that they are not further harmed by the former association, if the FM is found guilty.

Bruce Morcomb: 'I am aware our name and logo are still appearing on the "Where's William" website ... and we are endeavouring to get these removed,' the email read.

Link: Daniel Morecombe's parents cut ties with William Tyrrell charity

MOO.