Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) #77

[nightrider17]

Hi "Couldbe "

Going back to your DN article about grooming and who knew in advance of WT visit to Grandmas for a possible abduction theory.

I think that was early days - when BS was the target for the idea of abduction and even the neighbour PS. Because they could have known a child was coming to stay - from what the Grandma. One because of the washing machine and the other because he lives in the street and goes regularly for walks.IMO

About the big Dig at the house.

I think that it could be based on what the Grandma and LT had originally said about all the activities and the boisterous nature of WT.

If we think back to the Dawson case - the wife went missing and no body has materialised and they dug up the yard near the pool.

It goes back to the Police at the time of the crime didn't do their due diligence - and in fairness - it should be done properly the first time - to exonerate properly all those involved to rule them in or out. IMO

It also reminds me of the girl from Texas Athena S the 7 year old girl abducted by the parcel delivery guy. They originally thought it was the step mum but it's logical to also pursue other scenarios. MOO

 

[bearbear]

William Tyrrell case explained by top former detective Rod Iddles

Legendary homicide detective Ron Iddles hopes the mystery of three-year-old William's disappearance can still be solved but believes the latest large-scale search is 'the last roll of the dice'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

'I think someone's come forward with very specific information and that's what has resulted in the search.'

'Was it there at the time?' Mr Iddles said of Williams body.

'I don't know but quite clearly the information now is that it's at that house.

Police have said they are searching for a body at William's foster grandmother's house, at the same time they are examining a car she once owned.

'So it makes it a bit odd that they're actually searching that property for the body and then looking at the car,' Mr Iddles said.

'Unless he was in the boot of the car and somehow later he was brought back.'

I suggest that Whoever made that report to police must have been at fgm house the morning W disappeared and the only people at the house that morning were fgm Ffc and Ws sister.
Sniffer dogs arrived at the property and were unable to detect Ws scent trail. What item of Ws was used to find Ws scent? Was the item Ws? Does anyone know? Is it possible Ws body was in the boot of fgm car during the search as cars coming in and out of Benaroon Dtive that morning were not checked. What we do know is that fgm left her house a couple of days after the disappearance to stay with a relative in Port Macquarie. Was the purpose of that stay to remove the vehicle and possible evidence inside the boot? Certainly seems that way

unless williams body was quickly hidden in gms car boot in a panic, then buried later? the drive fm took in the car could have been to dispose of something or look for a burial spot, and we dont know for sure who was at the house that morning, only what the foster family have told police and msm

 

[Couldbe]

Hi "Couldbe "

Going back to your DN article about grooming and who knew in advance of WT visit to Grandmas for a possible abduction theory.

I think that was early days - when BS was the target for the idea of abduction and even the neighbour PS. Because they could have known a child was coming to stay - from what the Grandma. One because of the washing machine and the other because he lives in the street and goes regularly for walks.IMO

About the big Dig at the house.

I think that it could be based on what the Grandma and LT had originally said about all the activities and the boisterous nature of WT.

If we think back to the Dawson case - the wife went missing and no body has materialised and they dug up the yard near the pool.

It goes back to the Police at the time of the crime didn't do their due diligence - and in fairness - it should be done properly the first time - to exonerate properly all those involved to rule them in or out. IMO

It also reminds me of the girl from Texas Athena S the 7 year old girl abducted by the parcel delivery guy. They originally thought it was the step mum but it's logical to also pursue other scenarios. MOO

Useful points nightrider.

JMO - Because of suspicions of an abduction by somebody who might have been aware of the children visiting the FGM (And searches for William becoming lost failed to find him), the focus then became who might an abductor be!

It is worth remembering/noting that the visit by FM, FF and the two children was to be a day later than originally planned.
When the FM phoned Bill Spedding at 9.03am on that fateful morning, she didn't speak to him but left a message on his voicemail.

It wasn't until almost 2 years after William's disappearance that Jubelin 'went hard on them'' in recorded interviews with the FM and the FF, and then he bugged their car to learn what they discussed between them about those interviews.

“Jubelin said he had formed a friendship with William’s foster parents and believed the foster mother to be “a very decent human being”.
However, he said he “went hard” when investigating the couple.
“I basically ambushed the (foster) parents and then I interrogated the (foster) parents,” he told Sydney radio 2GB on Thursday.
Jubelin eliminated them as suspects after a covert operation that included placing a listening device in their car.
“At the time I was taken off the investigation … I was certainly of the belief that they were not involved,” he said.”
William Tyrrell case: former detective defends previous investigation into boy’s disappearance

 

[nightrider17]

Very true "Couldbe", Jubelin did say he ticked the Fosters off his list after due diligence. IMO

But, I think the inconsistencies where not really explored enough, IMO

1. The original walkthrough with the Foster Grandmother that seemed to be different to the timeline to the others. (Was she just nervous, or forgetful, anxious? but seems quite different to the others) IMO
2. The drive by the FM - where did it fit in the timeline??
3. The mentioning of the 3 cars later - not in the original 000 call.
4. Leaving the premises, to go to airport to pick up FM's sister and also the Foster Grandmother stayed with someone else for a few nights.

There is a few others which I rate with less relevance because maybe they just seems odd to me only. MOO

 

[Couldbe]

Very true "Couldbe", Jubelin did say he ticked the Fosters off his list after due diligence. IMO

But, I think the inconsistencies where not really explored enough, IMO

1. The original walkthrough with the Foster Grandmother that seemed to be different to the timeline to the others. (Was she just nervous, or forgetful, anxious? but seems quite different to the others) IMO
2. The drive by the FM - where did it fit in the timeline??
3. The mentioning of the 3 cars later - not in the original 000 call.
4. Leaving the premises, to go to airport to pick up FM's sister and also the Foster Grandmother stayed with someone else for a few nights.

There is a few others which I rate with less relevance because maybe they just seems odd to me only. MOO

Oh nightrider I agree with you on all of the points you make; I am trying to maintain a balanced assessment.
JMO - In my post about the grooming see link:

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) #77

Ex-Tyrrell suspect allegedly groomed and sexually touched man as he slept A former suspect in the William Tyrrell investigation has been charged with allegedly sexually touching an autistic man, a court heard...

www.websleuths.com

.... I was trying to point out that an abduction was more unlikely; and
.... the FM could have been constructing her 'rememberings' about the 3 cars, etc to support and fit in with an abduction theory; and
.... the inconsistencies in FM's relating of the events, and the FGM (In her walkthrough) may have been trying to tell her version in accordance with some previous coaching by the FM ready for the walkthrough with Detective Partridge.

 

[k-mac]

I think the whole abduction theory was planted with the intention of the police looking at the bio's.

IMO this was FM greatest fear...and an easy go to when needing a "get out of jail free card".

 

[Couldbe]

Tomorrow (Monday) 6 Nov and 7 Nov, the Foster Father will have his Alleged Lying Hearing conducted in the Sydney Downing Centre.

I don't think we know to what his alleged relying relates, but it has been reported:
“A police officer in the William Tyrrell investigative team Strike Force Rosann has alleged the missing toddler's foster father has been caught out 'lying about something we can prove.'

The foster father has been charged with two counts of giving false or misleading evidence to the NSW Crime Commission. Details of what exactly it relates to are unavailable.”

William Tyrrell foster father 'lying about something we can prove'

 

[JBowie]

Strike Force Rosann has alleged the missing toddler's foster father has been caught out 'lying about something we can prove

Similar wording to what they said about the FM, and that case failed in court. Let's see how this one goes.

 

[Couldbe]

Similar wording to what they said about the FM, and that case failed in court. Let's see how this one goes.

.... and apparently there are two counts of him giving false or misleading evidence.

 

[Lemony]

.... and apparently there are two counts of him giving false or misleading evidence.

A recent article dated Sept 18th 2023, stating the foster father previously pleaded not guilty to a single charge.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/william-tyrells-former-foster-father-to-fight-allegations-he-gave-false-misleading-evidence-in-court/news-story/f945eec541b1725c9d1552c461ba0afe

 

[Couldbe]

A recent article dated Sept 18th 2023, stating the foster father previously pleaded not guilty to a single charge.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/william-tyrells-former-foster-father-to-fight-allegations-he-gave-false-misleading-evidence-in-court/news-story/f945eec541b1725c9d1552c461ba0afe

JMO - I don't know if the NSWCC could be called a Court; Maybe there are two incidences of the FF giving false and misleading evidence (One in Court, and the other during questioning by the NSWCC):-
"The former foster father of missing boy William Tyrrell will fight allegations he knowingly gave false or misleading information in court.
The man, who cannot be named for legal reasons, previously pleaded not guilty to a single change related to evidence given to the NSW Crime Commission."

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/william-tyrells-former-foster-father-to-fight-allegations-he-gave-false-misleading-evidence-in-court/news-story/f945eec541b1725c9d1552c461ba0afe

 

[iiiii's]

I think the whole abduction theory was planted with the intention of the police looking at the bio's.

IMO this was FM greatest fear...and an easy go to when needing a "get out of jail free card".

If that were the case, is it indicative of an act with premeditation in your opinion?

 

[SLouTh]

.... and apparently there are two counts of him giving false or misleading evidence.

There have definitely been reports of two charges In the media ….see link below … but I guess only time will tell re the accuracy of the reporting …..



It was only revealed last month that William's foster father had been charged in January with two counts of 'knowingly providing false and misleading evidence'.

The charges only came to light because of a revision of non-publication orders surrounding the case.

The foster father, who police claim 'lied about something we can prove', gave the allegedly false evidence to the NSW Crime Commission late last year, and it is understood the foster mother also testified around the same time.

William Tyrrell foster parents' stalk charge on same child

William Tyrrell's foster parents have been accused this year of stalking the same child police allege they assaulted last year, and will face court later this month on the allegations.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[k-mac]

If that were the case, is it indicative of an act with premeditation in your opinion?

no I don't personally think anything nefarious was intended.

A woman who lost control and calculatingly covered it up to save her butt and opportunistically utilised an existing fear to full advantage.
(the bio's 'stealing' william away from her.)

moo

 

[FromGermany1]

Oh nightrider I agree with you on all of the points you make; I am trying to maintain a balanced assessment.
JMO - In my post about the grooming see link:

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) #77

Ex-Tyrrell suspect allegedly groomed and sexually touched man as he slept A former suspect in the William Tyrrell investigation has been charged with allegedly sexually touching an autistic man, a court heard...

www.websleuths.com

.... I was trying to point out that an abduction was more unlikely; and
.... the FM could have been constructing her 'rememberings' about the 3 cars, etc to support and fit in with an abduction theory; and
.... the inconsistencies in FM's relating of the events, and the FGM (In her walkthrough) may have been trying to tell her version in accordance with some previous coaching by the FM ready for the walkthrough with Detective Partridge.

First: I don't know, who coached whom and who had the idea of disappearing little W (PERHAPS) because of future difficulties to keep the sister, but haven't to deal further with little W's mental problems. Was it FFC or the FGM, who told the other, what to say?

Afaik, FFC had her idea of an abduction, when she returned with her sister from the airport. Suddenly (!!) she had an inspiration: 2 or 3 cars were parking in their street, the driver not present or looking at her with a certain expression. That, although she had assured to 911, that NO-no-no car at all had been seen by her, when the disappearing happened. - I think, FFC was coached by her sister, otherwise her memory wouldn't have risen so very clearly and suddenly. MOO

 

[Mauig’ma]

First: I don't know, who coached whom and who had the idea of disappearing little W (PERHAPS) because of future difficulties to keep the sister, but haven't to deal further with little W's mental problems. Was it FFC or the FGM, who told the other, what to say?

Afaik, FFC had her idea of an abduction, when she returned with her sister from the airport. Suddenly (!!) she had an inspiration: 2 or 3 cars were parking in their street, the driver not present or looking at her with a certain expression. That, although she had assured to 911, that NO-no-no car at all had been seen by her, when the disappearing happened. - I think, FFC was coached by her sister, otherwise her memory wouldn't have risen so very clearly and suddenly. MOO

The ffc had ample time to think of something on her way to and from the airport imo

 

[iiiii's]

Can anyone please show the mfc's listing for today? Looking for any news but can't find any.

 

[iiiii's]

Thanks Slouth, much appreciated

 

[CooperDyl]

Coercive powers sought in Tyrrell 'joint investigation'

One of William Tyrrell's former foster parents has already been acquitted as the other is accused of lying to a hearing over secret surveillance tapes.

thewest.com.au

Above is the only story I’ve seen to come out of today.
Seems to be a quote from today from a detective saying they don’t know what happened to WT, despite the fact they’ve sent a brief recommending charges? Confusing…

 

[SLouTh]

Coercive powers sought in Tyrrell 'joint investigation'

One of William Tyrrell's former foster parents has already been acquitted as the other is accused of lying to a hearing over secret surveillance tapes.

thewest.com.au

Above is the only story I’ve seen to come out of today.
Seems to be a quote from today from a detective saying they don’t know what happened to WT, despite the fact they’ve sent a brief recommending charges? Confusing…

Thanks for the article …. Greatly appreciated!

So now there are five counts of lying / misleading ….. by FF ..

The former foster father has pleaded not guilty to five counts of knowingly giving false or misleading evidence at a hearing, relating to answers he gave the commission.

Snip….

The questions related to a "propensity" to harm children in their care, Det Sgt Lonergan said.


Do all 5 allegations relate to the above “propensity" to harm children” ??

Hard to tell from the article.. IMO

Coercive powers sought in Tyrrell 'joint investigation'

One of William Tyrrell's former foster parents has already been acquitted as the other is accused of lying to a hearing over secret surveillance tapes.

thewest.com.au