Autopsy Report - UCF Osteological Analysis-Duct Tape Info

[doobiedoo52]

The Q62-Q64 tape was from the victim (as stated in the report) and the Q66 tape was from the gas can.
From the FBI report p 3794:

"Based on the examinations conducted, the Q64 and Q66 pieces of tape are comparable to one another in all physical attributes and in their chemical composition of their backing and adhesive components. Therefore, they originated from the same source roll of tape or from rolls of tape manufactured in the same manner."

They go on to state that the tape logo (Henkel) is the same on the gas cans and from the victim. And remark that:

"Tape specimens Q64 and Q66 remain under active investigation in the Trace Evidence Unit to determine if any differences exist between the fabric reinforcement component of these tapes."

There was three separate pieces of tape. Apparently, two were too degraded to do testing on so Q64 was used as representative of all three. The logo, however, was apparent on all three pieces. I guess the Q64 piece was covered by the other two. This protected it from the elements and allowed for the adhesive and backing comparisons to be made.

I think the most definitive match will be made when the fabric reinforcement testing is done.

I don't know if I'm looking at this right or not, but it would only take tape over the "hinged joint" on the mandible to hold it in place and the fact that the tape was in part of the hair. When you allow for the fact that the tissue of the mouth, nose and ears are completely gone, and the bag was obviously moved a bit by animals, I would think that tape would have to be "loose" and rather difficult to tell if it was actually over both the mouth and nose.

I am also of the belief that it was put there after death to look like a kidnapping. I still think the accidental drowning is a very real possibility. The problem is sociopaths will never admit to any wrongdoing--accidentally or intentionally. My niece is like that--even if caught in an untruth, she will not admit to it. If that is KC's diagnosis (per CA) we will probably never know what really happened, even if it could have kept her from facing the DP. She will just change the subject (ie talking about football when they found Caylee's remains). If you've never been around a sociopath it's hard to fathom, but they can come up with some amazing stories that sound plausible until you look into them.

 

[wandering]

The Q62-Q64 tape was from the victim (as stated in the report) and the Q66 tape was from the gas can.

From the FBI report p 3794:

"Based on the examinations conducted, the Q64 and Q66 pieces of tape are comparable to one another in all physical attributes and in their chemical composition of their backing and adhesive components. Therefore, they originated from the same source roll of tape or from rolls of tape manufactured in the same manner."

They go on to state that the tape logo (Henkel) is the same on the gas cans and from the victim. And remark that:

"Tape specimens Q64 and Q66 remain under active investigation in the Trace Evidence Unit to determine if any differences exist between the fabric reinforcement component of these tapes."

There was three separate pieces of tape. Apparently, two were too degraded to do testing on so Q64 was used as representative of all three. The logo, however, was apparent on all three pieces. I guess the Q64 piece was covered by the other two. This protected it from the elements and allowed for the adhesive and backing comparisons to be made.

I think the most definitive match will be made when the fabric reinforcement testing is done.

OH, wow. Thanks for that. The tape matches w/the tape on the gas cans. KC is a cooked goose. George already put those cans in KC's hands/trunk.
Cindy and George must be suffering the tortures of the d@mned with the way they handled the beginnings of this case.

 

[USARDOG]

I can't quite get a grip on the exact location of the tape. From what I read it starts at the posterior portion of the man and max, but it is hard to imagine how it stayed on without rapping further posterior, say to the temporalis or occiput.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Only problem with this is that she did not actually intend to abandon the car and was trying to secure a way to get gas to the car so she could get it back. The "abandonment" of the car is not necessarily what actually occurred. She may have run out of gas and not been able to work it out to get gas in it without anyone who came with her smelling the car. She was attempting to find a way-she was just too late.



It is not a given but the potential for it to have been is very strong. There are the internet searches. There is the boyfriend with it posted on his MySpace page thus indicating she had likely been familiar with something about chloroform. There were the neck-breaking searches. THEN there is the unusually high levels of chloroform in the trunk. Just looking at the circumstancial evidence, and its quite incriminating.



Well, they went far enough around into her hair to HOLD and also to remain tight enough to stay put and to hold the mandible in place. These pieces could have met at the back of the head as far as we know.

But it was not out of gas when found.......
Nancy Grace mentioned one night that the Amscot had video of Casey circling the store, if there is such a video it hasn't been shown yet, but she did abandon it there with gas in the tank..

 

[magic-cat]

But it was not out of gas when found.......
Nancy Grace mentioned one night that the Amscot had video of Casey circling the store, if there is such a video it hasn't been shown yet, but she did abandon it there with gas in the tank..

I don't think we are real absolute on this point. I know that George brought gas with him when he came to get the car. And I know that the police tested the gauge (she claimed it was broken) and it was in working order. {Thus telling us that Casey just "used" the broken gauge story to cover herself for running out of gas when she should have had money to buy gas since she was working so hard.} I do not recall if it has ever been established as factual that the car was not out of gas. I have never seen it say either way if George put the gas in or if he did not. Anyone?:waitasec:

 

[USARDOG]

I don't know if I'm looking at this right or not, but it would only take tape over the "hinged joint" on the mandible to hold it in place and the fact that the tape was in part of the hair.

I believe both TMJ were gone also, as they are articulating cartilaginous joints so disolved easily, which makes it hard for me to understand how the tape held the mandible in place.

 

[static]

This finally makes sense to me, for the first time. This could have happened the night of the infamous fight between CA and KC.. This is the first scenario that I have been able to completely play out in my head.

KC and CA fight on the eve of the 15th. KC storms off to her room with little Caylee, who is quite possibly crying. KC shakes her while making her grimacing face saying "Shut up"!

Poor Caylee is injured and KC freaks out. Maybe CA heard some kind of noise in the BR, but decided it was nothing because Caylee quieted down.)

She did say she listened at the BR door for breathing the next morning. Maybe Caylee didn't pass away until the time when there was a flurry of calls.


The only thing I have to wonder about with that is the time she spent after Caylee's death. The tattoo for instance...The Good Life? the partying and the smiles. If she really did accidentally kill Caylee, I truly believe their would have been some serious sadness afterwards. Guilt, wanting to be alone. But she was out getting videos with lover boy the same night. Just do not believe this was accidental. The behavior of KC was that of a person who has just been released of a burden. Caylee was a burden to her IMO.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I believe both TMJ were gone also, as they are articulating cartilaginous joints so disolved easily, which makes it hard for me to understand how the tape held the mandible in place.

From the more detailed description in the report in its entirety it sounded to me as if the mass of matted hair with roots entwined helped hold the mandible in place as much (if not more) than the tape. It even sounded as though it might have helped hold the tape in place. moo

 

[BondJamesBond]

FWIW...

• The ONLY samples of duct tape recovered from Hopespring were remnants (i.e. NO partial roll)
• ALL samples of duct tape recovered from Hopespring were located in the south shed (i.e. NONE in the garage)
• The ONLY samples of heart-shaped stickers recovered Hopespring were in Casey & Caylee's bedrooms

Of the two locations I would expect to find a roll of duct tape in a home, garage or shed, it seems more likely in the Hopespring home to have been found in a shed.

The south shed was locked 6/23, requiring it to be broken into to obtain the gas cans. Unless it were commonly left unlocked on the weekends (e.g. 6/15PM) it seems unlikely duct tape located there would be conveniently available, if at all w/o access to the key :waitasec: If the key were located in the house, 6/23, it seems Casey would've opted to get the key vs. having to break the lock that day. This might suggest the key to the south shed was on George's keychain - unlikely, IMO. IF this were the case it seems access to the south shed would've also been secured 6/15PM until George got home from work ~11PM.

UNLESS...the reason Casey didn't retrieve the key 6/23 was because it had been tossed with the remains on Suburban ~6/20 (recall the image of the single key on a keyring?) . IF George hadn't attempted to access the south shed between 6/16-6/20 and 6/23 he would not have discovered the key missing. Although it seems he would've wanted to have the key in-hand 6/24 ~10AM when he discovered the shed broken into...we don't hear about the absence of a key...so....maybe...maybe not...:waitasec:

Still wielding that "IF" quite frequently......
...IF the key located @ the disposal site belonged to the shed padlock (we'll never know since that it likely went into the trash 6/24), and
...IF the roll of duct tape were located in the south shed, and
...IF Casey had to use the key to retrieve it...

IMHO, that would suggest much more effort than would be undertaken in a fit of rage. IOW...a fit of rage employs weapons of convenience. Rather, IMHO, it would suggest an effort undertaken in a methodical manner, either before or after the t.o.d. If before t.o.d., then, Casey having taken the time, effort & forethought required to obtain and utilize tape = premeditation. If after t.o.d. then Casey serving some other purpose.

Could the use of the duct tape actually be an indication that it was convenient at the time due to something else used in the commission of the murder being from the south shed?

The heart-sticker last, by stark contrast, is an item readily convenient in one of the two bedrooms. Goes on last. Unless it was taken from another item being taken out of the home 6/16-6/20...or...simply a spontaneous item taken while grabbing clothes from the bedroom to stay @ Tony's...unlikely, IMHO...it also seems an item of convenience.

 

[magic-cat]

From the more detailed description in the report in its entirety it sounded to me as if the mass of matted hair with roots entwined helped hold the mandible in place as much (if not more) than the tape. It even sounded as though it might have helped hold the tape in place. moo

It is so terrible to picture it, but if you can, then you can see, IF the tape was placed tightly and went around into the hair, when the hair came loose from the scalp it fell over the tape in all likelihood, and created a mat at the base, thus securing the tape in place. It was STILL over the mouth and nose, so it was placed tightly and when the hair mat formed, from decomp, etc, and then the roots and plants started growing into it, it just held it all right there, preserved for some random guy to discover on a sad day in December.

 

[magic-cat]

The if's so boggle the mind don't they?

 

[USARDOG]

From the more detailed description in the report in its entirety it sounded to me as if the mass of matted hair with roots entwined helped hold the mandible in place as much (if not more) than the tape. It even sounded as though it might have helped hold the tape in place. moo

Yes, i think this the best explanation.

Now... What does this tell us about the possition of Caylee when the tape was applied? She could not have had her hair in a pony tail... Almost sound to me as it she were in a near up right position with her hair loose and hanging down. I would think were she supine, her hair would fall to the posterior, and so not be caugth up in the tape when it is applied...

She could have been prone, if her head were lifted to apply the tape over her mandible. This position would provide the most hair to be caught up in the tape but sounds very difficult.

 

[okiedokietoo]

I don't think we are real absolute on this point. I know that George brought gas with him when he came to get the car. And I know that the police tested the gauge (she claimed it was broken) and it was in working order. {Thus telling us that Casey just "used" the broken gauge story to cover herself for running out of gas when she should have had money to buy gas since she was working so hard.} I do not recall if it has ever been established as factual that the car was not out of gas. I have never seen it say either way if George put the gas in or if he did not. Anyone?:waitasec:

This is the html version of the file:
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Burch%20%20Simon-0724.pdf.

TAPED TRANSCRIPT OF SIMON BURCH -- Page 11
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:ytXE6kEP__gJ:www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Burch%2520%2520Simon-0724.pdf+%22SIMON+BURCH%22+transcript&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&lr=lang_en

(bolded by me)
SB: So anyway, we, he, we, I took him back to his car, walked him back there, and
again, he was still talking about his daughter telling lies and blah, blah, blah, and
I kept sympathizing with him. And then he got his gas can and we walked back
to the car a second time. And it was a small, round, very battered gas can. An
old, metal one.
GW: Right.
SB: All the paint was chipped off of it. It was you know, kind of like my dad had for
the lawnmower. Kind of, you know (unintelligible)…
GW: It looked like it’s had some good use with it?
SB: It’s been around. Yeah (affirmative), it’s been around, you know. And the guy
was super nice. I mean he was super. He, he, you know, he was just very, he
was distraught. He, he apologized about his wife’s behavior again. I said, “I
totally understand dude.” I said, “You know it’s, we get it all the time. It’s no big
deal. Anyway, he put the gas in the car and it fired right up.”

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Yes, i think this the best explanation.

Now... What does this tell us about the possition of Caylee when the tape was applied? She could not have had her hair in a pony tail... Almost sound to me as it she were in a near up right position with her hair loose and hanging down. I would think were she supine, her hair would fall to the posterior, and so not be caugth up in the tape when it is applied...

She could have been prone, if her head were lifted to apply the tape over her mandible. This position would provide the most hair to be caught up in the tape but sounds very difficult.

We are in perfect agreement! I don't think it was in a ponytail. I think either prone or supine, by the time the action of any bit of seepage of water (or even water action from outside of the bag before the skull was separated) as well as insect and animal movement would have caused the mass to accumulate at the basilar skull and fill the void at the TMJs, taking over their job of holding the mandible and maxilla together.

 

[Sdavidson11]

Yes, i think this the best explanation.

Now... What does this tell us about the position of Caylee when the tape was applied? She could not have had her hair in a pony tail... Almost sound to me as it she were in a near up right position with her hair loose and hanging down. I would think were she supine, her hair would fall to the posterior, and so not be caught up in the tape when it is applied...

She could have been prone, if her head were lifted to apply the tape over her mandible. This position would provide the most hair to be caught up in the tape but sounds very difficult.

I have had first hand experience with duct tape placed over my mouth, nose and eyes by a man that kidnapped and raped me. He had me sit on the edge of the bed with a gun under my chin. While sitting upright, he released my pony tail with his knife. My hair fell down and a bit forward. He first taped my eyes with the tape going just past my ears but not all the way around my head. My eyes had to stay closed and I could not blink. The tape that was placed around my mouth and nose, he put a sock in my mouth first and then wrapped the duct tape around my head that met in the back lower part of my skull. Initially my nose was covered, but by moving my lips it did release but I had to stay very composed to be able to breathe. My hands and feet were also bound with duct tape spread eagle. When this happened to me I was 22 years old, former college softball player and weighed 120 lbs. My hair is rather thick, curly, and was long to the middle of my back. I could not break free of the duct tape. Once I was free, I could not remove the the tape from my hair, it had to be cut out. I was able to push the tape over my mouth down under my chin so I could breathe and the tape over my eyes was pushed up to form a type of head band. Having said that, I believe that Caylee's tape over her eyes fell down toward the mandible once decomp started. In my opinion she could have still been alive crying as I was too when the duct tape was placed over her little eyes, nose and mouth and the tape would still adhere. When something like this happens your mind helps to find ways to cope with the situation. However, since Caylee was not yet 3 I am not sure if her mind would have the problem solving ability that an adult has to try to figure out how to survive. Then once those thoughts pass, at least in my mind you are resigned to the situation and turn to prayer. That is once your initial fight or flight response has passed. Even if Caylee's hands and feet weren't bound, I am not sure she would have had the strength to remove the duct tape because I had to use all my strength to stretch it while I pulled it down over my mouth and up over my eyes and it was very painful. May the SA bring Justice to Caylee. Sorry for the rant but I agree with your conclusion.

 

[Wisteria]

Since we all think Casey was Lazy, how would this be consistent with the theory of duct tape applied AFTER the seepage of decomp fliuds.... (which IMO is contradicted by the autopsy report which states the tape was place prior to decomp beginning).

Presumably she had bagged her body, then found that the body was in fact leaking in to the trunk so she opens up the bags to close up the oozing mouth and nose cavaties with the duct tape? WHy? So she could drive around with her longer? Why didn't she close her eyes, ears, and other orafaces? Would they not be leaking as well? PLus, decomp fluid would be slippery and the tape would not have held for 6 months in elements still in the position it was found in. IMO it would have fallen off right away. Yes, maybe stuck in the hair but not tight enough to hold the jaw bone in place.

I don't see it. She would NOT want to touth the decomposing body of her daughter any more than necessary. Evidence of this is the 3 bags the body was dumped in. KC took time to triple bag her so that she could distance herself from looking at and acknowledging the death of the child and what she, KC, had done to a little baby.

ALso, instead of applying tape to the child's mouth to hold in the decomp, if she was lazy, why didn't she just dump the body once she found that it was so far along in decomp? That just seems much cleaner and much less work.

 

[nyvictoria]

I have had first hand experience with duct tape placed over my mouth, nose and eyes by a man that kidnapped and raped me. He had me sit on the edge of the bed with a gun under my chin. While sitting upright, he released my pony tail with his knife. My hair fell down and a bit forward. He first taped my eyes with the tape going just past my ears but not all the way around my head. My eyes had to stay closed and I could not blink. The tape that was placed around my mouth and nose, he put a sock in my mouth first and then wrapped the duct tape around my head that met in the back lower part of my skull. Initially my nose was covered, but by moving my lips it did release but I had to stay very composed to be able to breathe. My hands and feet were also bound with duct tape spread eagle. When this happened to me I was 22 years old, former college softball player and weighed 120 lbs. My hair is rather thick, curly, and was long to the middle of my back. I could not break free of the duct tape. Once I was free, I could not remove the the tape from my hair, it had to be cut out. I was able to push the tape over my mouth down under my chin so I could breathe and the tape over my eyes was pushed up to form a type of head band. Having said that, I believe that Caylee's tape over her eyes fell down toward the mandible once decomp started. In my opinion she could have still been alive crying as I was too when the duct tape was placed over her little eyes, nose and mouth and the tape would still adhere. When something like this happens your mind helps to find ways to cope with the situation. However, since Caylee was not yet 3 I am not sure if her mind would have the problem solving ability that an adult has to try to figure out how to survive. Then once those thoughts pass, at least in my mind you are resigned to the situation and turn to prayer. That is once your initial fight or flight response has passed. Even if Caylee's hands and feet weren't bound, I am not sure she would have had the strength to remove the duct tape because I had to use all my strength to stretch it while I pulled it down over my mouth and up over my eyes and it was very painful. May the SA bring Justice to Caylee. Sorry for the rant but I agree with your conclusion.

I am so very sorry you had to go through that terrible experience. No need to apologize. You have every right to "rant". God Bless You!

 

[marmar]

I have had first hand experience with duct tape placed over my mouth, nose and eyes by a man that kidnapped and raped me. He had me sit on the edge of the bed with a gun under my chin. While sitting upright, he released my pony tail with his knife. My hair fell down and a bit forward. He first taped my eyes with the tape going just past my ears but not all the way around my head. My eyes had to stay closed and I could not blink. The tape that was placed around my mouth and nose, he put a sock in my mouth first and then wrapped the duct tape around my head that met in the back lower part of my skull. Initially my nose was covered, but by moving my lips it did release but I had to stay very composed to be able to breathe. My hands and feet were also bound with duct tape spread eagle. When this happened to me I was 22 years old, former college softball player and weighed 120 lbs. My hair is rather thick, curly, and was long to the middle of my back. I could not break free of the duct tape. Once I was free, I could not remove the the tape from my hair, it had to be cut out. I was able to push the tape over my mouth down under my chin so I could breathe and the tape over my eyes was pushed up to form a type of head band. Having said that, I believe that Caylee's tape over her eyes fell down toward the mandible once decomp started. In my opinion she could have still been alive crying as I was too when the duct tape was placed over her little eyes, nose and mouth and the tape would still adhere. When something like this happens your mind helps to find ways to cope with the situation. However, since Caylee was not yet 3 I am not sure if her mind would have the problem solving ability that an adult has to try to figure out how to survive. Then once those thoughts pass, at least in my mind you are resigned to the situation and turn to prayer. That is once your initial fight or flight response has passed. Even if Caylee's hands and feet weren't bound, I am not sure she would have had the strength to remove the duct tape because I had to use all my strength to stretch it while I pulled it down over my mouth and up over my eyes and it was very painful. May the SA bring Justice to Caylee. Sorry for the rant but I agree with your conclusion.

Oh man, I am so sorry also for what you went through. It's difficult enough imagining poor little Caylee going through this, and not surviving. But to read someone who managed to survive it and give a very vivid description is both heartbreaking and inspirational, if that makes sense. Reading that just made me cry, ugh.

<hugs>

 

[ShadowGal]

resp. snipped SDavidson11...snipped too much, my editing skills are lacking lately...

>>>Having said that, I believe that Caylee's tape over her eyes fell down toward the mandible once decomp started. In my opinion she could have still been alive crying as I was too when the duct tape was placed over her little eyes, nose and mouth and the tape would still adhere.<<<<

I so admire your courage in sharing your story. You are such a survivor and I imagine it only makes you want to help others who have been victimized. I see why you have a special desire to see justice for Caylee. God bless you. :blowkiss:

You mentioned tape over little Caylee's eyes...I have not read anything in the docs that stated this. Just wondered if you were theorizing.

 

[Wisteria]

Funny how today on the Today show the defense expert claims that when he saw the body there was no evidence of duct tape, they were just bones. No residue, nothing......

Deny, deny, deny.

Ummm,..... Doesn't the SA have pictures of the skull laying on the ground at the scene WITH DUCT TAPE on it? If the only thing they can do is deny- well.... Good luck with that.