Autopsy Report - UCF Osteological Analysis-Duct Tape Info

[Marina2]

FWIW...

• The ONLY samples of duct tape recovered from Hopespring were remnants (i.e. NO partial roll)
• ALL samples of duct tape recovered from Hopespring were located in the south shed (i.e. NONE in the garage)
• The ONLY samples of heart-shaped stickers recovered Hopespring were in Casey & Caylee's bedrooms

Of the two locations I would expect to find a roll of duct tape in a home, garage or shed, it seems more likely in the Hopespring home to have been found in a shed.

The south shed was locked 6/23, requiring it to be broken into to obtain the gas cans. Unless it were commonly left unlocked on the weekends (e.g. 6/15PM) it seems unlikely duct tape located there would be conveniently available, if at all w/o access to the key :waitasec: If the key were located in the house, 6/23, it seems Casey would've opted to get the key vs. having to break the lock that day. This might suggest the key to the south shed was on George's keychain - unlikely, IMO. IF this were the case it seems access to the south shed would've also been secured 6/15PM until George got home from work ~11PM.

UNLESS...the reason Casey didn't retrieve the key 6/23 was because it had been tossed with the remains on Suburban ~6/20 (recall the image of the single key on a keyring?) . IF George hadn't attempted to access the south shed between 6/16-6/20 and 6/23 he would not have discovered the key missing. Although it seems he would've wanted to have the key in-hand 6/24 ~10AM when he discovered the shed broken into...we don't hear about the absence of a key...so....maybe...maybe not...:waitasec:

Still wielding that "IF" quite frequently......
...IF the key located @ the disposal site belonged to the shed padlock (we'll never know since that it likely went into the trash 6/24), and
...IF the roll of duct tape were located in the south shed, and
...IF Casey had to use the key to retrieve it...

IMHO, that would suggest much more effort than would be undertaken in a fit of rage. IOW...a fit of rage employs weapons of convenience. Rather, IMHO, it would suggest an effort undertaken in a methodical manner, either before or after the t.o.d. If before t.o.d., then, Casey having taken the time, effort & forethought required to obtain and utilize tape = premeditation. If after t.o.d. then Casey serving some other purpose.

Could the use of the duct tape actually be an indication that it was convenient at the time due to something else used in the commission of the murder being from the south shed?

The heart-sticker last, by stark contrast, is an item readily convenient in one of the two bedrooms. Goes on last. Unless it was taken from another item being taken out of the home 6/16-6/20...or...simply a spontaneous item taken while grabbing clothes from the bedroom to stay @ Tony's...unlikely, IMHO...it also seems an item of convenience.

I remember in one of the earliest interviews (a day or two after it hit the news) CA made a big deal about locking the sheds so that Caylee couldn't access them. She explained how she was getting into everything now and you just couldn't be too careful, etc. I would think CA would end her discussion about keeping the sheds locked for Caylee's safety at that point. Instead, CA went on to say that the sheds are locked and that there's no reason for anyone (not just Caylee) to have access. For this reason, she said that the keys aren't available to anyone but her and GA, i.e. not hanging on a nail somewhere in the house. She said only her and GA have or know where the keys to the shed are. I thought it was strange then that she went into so much detail and your post brought that all back to me. Did they suspect something then involving the shed and a possible missing key? Interesting.

I've never been able to find this interview again. I believe it's the same one where she hears Caylee "breathing" through the door. Other statements by CA were in this interview that I've wanted to revisit but have never been able to, like stating "I know where one of them was because I tucked her into bed" when asked where KC and Caylee were on the night of the 15th. That later changed to "I tucked them both in.."

ETA: In regards to the text I bolded above, there are scenarios where a fit of rage could fit in with the use of duct tape. If KC, in a fit of rage, injured Caylee to a very serious degree such as paralysis or coma, she may have decided to use duct tape to end her life rather than admit to having caused such a serious injury. Sort of a mercy killing to keep Caylee from living in a paralyzed state or end the coma state and to be able to smother her without using her own hands and watching it happen. Also, so no one would know how bad she injured Caylee while in a rage. Still premeditated because she should have called 911. Just a thought.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I remember in one of the earliest interviews (a day or two after it hit the news) CA made a big deal about locking the sheds so that Caylee couldn't access them. She explained how she was getting into everything now and you just couldn't be too careful, etc. I would think CA would end her discussion about keeping the sheds locked for Caylee's safety at that point. Instead, CA went on to say that the sheds are locked and that there's no reason for anyone (not just Caylee) to have access. For this reason, she said that the keys aren't available to anyone but her and GA, i.e. not hanging on a nail somewhere in the house. She said only her and GA have or know where the keys to the shed are. I thought it was strange then that she went into so much detail and your post brought that all back to me. Did they suspect something then involving the shed and a possible missing key? Interesting.

I've never been able to find this interview again. I believe it's the same one where she hears Caylee "breathing" through the door. Other statements by CA were in this interview that I've wanted to revisit but have never been able to, like stating "I know where one of them was because I tucked her into bed" when asked where KC and Caylee were on the night of the 15th. That later changed to "I tucked them both in.."

I remember this, too, Marina. I think it was from their interview with Greta on Fox.

 

[Marina2]

I remember this, too, Marina. I think it was from their interview with Greta on Fox.

Thanks. I'm glad you remember it. So much time has passed that it would be nice to actually hear the things that you know you heard again and in the context of all we know now. I've checked that interview and didn't come across the key statements nor the "tucked into bed" statements. I think the interview was actually much earlier than the Greta interview. None of the very early interviews are available and they are the ones I want to hear the most. These have statements that they made before they thought too much about what had happened.

 

[BeanE]

I remember CA going on and on about the sheds being locked, nobody had keys except her, etc. etc. I wondered at the time about the excessive amount of detail and her insistence about it.

Then came Lee's LE intereview, where he said the sheds were *not* typically kept locked.

I've always wanted to know what it was about the sheds that bothered Cindy so much. I think duct tape is a good possibility.

 

[Marina2]

More to the topic of this thread is how the duct tape relates to the position it was found in relation to Caylee's bones, namely the mandible. Thinking of this, I've been trying to find in the supplemental reports or perhaps in the FBI reports where it is said that the duct tape was cut from the hair in order to preserve it's shape or the way it was placed on the skull or something to that effect. I think it's a statement that has relevance to this thread. If anyone comes across it or knows where it is, please post. I'd like to read the exact statement.

 

[BondJamesBond]

I just can't make myself envision Casey manipulating the body directly post-mortem...:snooty: which is one of the reasons I have a tough time w/ the duct tape application.

IF you can get over that hurdle...it seems to be a common statement in reference materials that in the very early stage of decomposition the face & tongue swell and the eyes bulge as a result of the build up of gases internally. The application of duct tape could have been essentially a 'mask' such that Casey didn't have to look on these effects as her last view of Caylee, even some means of obscuring Caylee's identity subconciously from Casey's perspective IYKWIM. The ends of the tape around the mouth area being caught in the hair might have been the result of it being applied as quickly as possible, IYKWIM.

AFAIK we have a minimum of 3 pieces of duct tape applied. And at least one other 'long' piece of duct tape recovered from the disposal site. Perhaps together these covered the eyes as well...with the longer piece coming off during some stage of the decomposition, flooding, etc....just something to consider.

 

[5stars]

Dr G. had cut the tape off her into three pieces when she had the skull in dec.,because it was adhered to her hair on both sides.It was in another doc. dump.

 

[Jolynna]

I just can't make myself envision Casey manipulating the body directly post-mortem...:snooty: which is one of the reasons I have a tough time w/ the duct tape application.

IF you can get over that hurdle...it seems to be a common statement in reference materials that in the very early stage of decomposition the face & tongue swell and the eyes bulge as a result of the build up of gases internally. The application of duct tape could have been essentially a 'mask' such that Casey didn't have to look on these effects as her last view of Caylee, even some means of obscuring Caylee's identity subconciously from Casey's perspective IYKWIM. The ends of the tape around the mouth area being caught in the hair might have been the result of it being applied as quickly as possible, IYKWIM.

AFAIK we have a minimum of 3 pieces of duct tape applied. And at least one other 'long' piece of duct tape recovered from the disposal site. Perhaps together these covered the eyes as well...with the longer piece coming off during some stage of the decomposition, flooding, etc....just something to consider.

Wouldn't putting Caylee in a bag accomplish the same thing?

I've always visualized KC putting Caylee in a bag ASAP so KC would not have to think have to look at what she had done. I can't see KC lingering over Caylee touching her after she was gone.

I think KC is a sweep dirt under the rug, if nobody sees it it doesn't exist kind of person. She drove around town for days with a body in her trunk before doing something. She threw a paper towel with decomposition all over it back into her car and then abandoned the car for 3 days. Does she run when the car disappears even after she steals money to get away? No she lollygags around & blows the money.

What motivated KC to individually tear off strips of duct tape? IMO, necessity. Maybe Caylee was able to use her tongue and lips to make a breathing hole through the first layer? A poster on WS that survived a rape involving duct tape said she was able to do it. Maybe Caylee did too. Thus, the need for multiple layers of tape.

 

[JWG]

I just can't make myself envision Casey manipulating the body directly post-mortem...:snooty: which is one of the reasons I have a tough time w/ the duct tape application.

IF you can get over that hurdle...it seems to be a common statement in reference materials that in the very early stage of decomposition the face & tongue swell and the eyes bulge as a result of the build up of gases internally. The application of duct tape could have been essentially a 'mask' such that Casey didn't have to look on these effects as her last view of Caylee, even some means of obscuring Caylee's identity subconciously from Casey's perspective IYKWIM. The ends of the tape around the mouth area being caught in the hair might have been the result of it being applied as quickly as possible, IYKWIM.

AFAIK we have a minimum of 3 pieces of duct tape applied. And at least one other 'long' piece of duct tape recovered from the disposal site. Perhaps together these covered the eyes as well...with the longer piece coming off during some stage of the decomposition, flooding, etc....just something to consider.

I'm kind of leaning in the same direction as you Bond...minimal handling of the body post-mortem. And as you note, that makes the duct-tape very difficult to reconcile. I saw your post on another thread about the duct-tape, sticker, and bags needing to be convenient for 10-minute KC to use them. I have not pieced it all together in my head but I believe doing so (tracking KC's likely movements around the house / yard) will shed light on what happened.

I'm really just posting at the moment about the long piece of duct tape and the two shorter ones found very close to it. None of those pieces were sent to the FBI for analysis, and I believe the reason is that LE thought they were random pieces of garbage and unrelated to the crime. I can understand why. They were found very close to the fence, uphill from and well away from any bones that were discovered. No doubt animals could have dragged the tape to that location, but given no bones were found nearby, it seems unlikely.

 

[laniefi]

Sorry if it has already been discussed, but did the "mat" of hair located on the back of her head jump out at anyone else?

Specifically I was wondering if when KC was trying to duct tape her mouth she was lying in the trunk or on some other surface and was moving her head back & forth to not to have the duct tape put over her mouth. This motion would create a mat in the hair.

 

[Marina2]

I believe both TMJ were gone also, as they are articulating cartilaginous joints so disolved easily, which makes it hard for me to understand how the tape held the mandible in place.

From the more detailed description in the report in its entirety it sounded to me as if the mass of matted hair with roots entwined helped hold the mandible in place as much (if not more) than the tape. It even sounded as though it might have helped hold the tape in place. moo

EU, I agree with your assessment. From the autopsy report:

"...nest-like mass of matted hair which covers the basilar and lower posterior skull, including inferior portions of the mandible."

The inferior portion of the mandible refers to the area underneath the mandible. So it appears that the hair mass under the mandible may have helped keep the tape and the mandible in place.

BUT, this opinion from the ME contradicts that:

"Based on the position of the tape and mandible, it can be inferred that the mandible remained in this position because the tape held it in place prior to the hair forming into a matt on the base of the skull."

So, I don't know. :waitasec: Something about the tape and mandible position show that the mandible was held in place by the tape only.

 

[maryaok]

I just want to point out the fact that a 3 year old child could let their parent put duct tape over their mouth without a struggle- there might not have been a struggle until she found she couldn't breathe. My son was not weary or had fears until he was 4 or so. If I would tell him to do something he would do it. CA could have just said we're going to play a game where you can't talk so I am going to out this over your mouth and Caylee could have easily agreed. She would have had no prior experiences (hopefully) that would make her fear her mouth being covered, her mother (which makes this betrayal the most sick) or duct tape. Just a thought.

I just feel like I have to disagree: the layer upon layer of tape shows a true sense of rage! I think the rage was quick, furious and then done. In fact, I had thought that probably Caylee was still alive for quite awhile in the trunk, had Casey gone back and checked on her, she could have probably pulled her out and saved her. But she didn't bother checking and by the time she did, she was dead.

 

[beach]

I remember in one of the earliest interviews (a day or two after it hit the news) CA made a big deal about locking the sheds so that Caylee couldn't access them. She explained how she was getting into everything now and you just couldn't be too careful, etc. I would think CA would end her discussion about keeping the sheds locked for Caylee's safety at that point. Instead, CA went on to say that the sheds are locked and that there's no reason for anyone (not just Caylee) to have access. For this reason, she said that the keys aren't available to anyone but her and GA, i.e. not hanging on a nail somewhere in the house. She said only her and GA have or know where the keys to the shed are. I thought it was strange then that she went into so much detail and your post brought that all back to me. Did they suspect something then involving the shed and a possible missing key? Interesting.

-- respectfully snipped

This has always been one of those details that drives me crazy!!

heh, no one in my family has been knighted or nominated for sainthood, but geeze....we all have access to the dang shed! the key hangs on the key rack right by the door and we all know where it is. i mean, who knows...someone other than myself might actually get a wild hair to cut the grass. :rotfl: far be it from me to have the key hidden away. there is something to this whole mysterious hidden shed key deal....and it bugs the living fool out of me!

 

[impatientredhead]

-- respectfully snipped

This has always been one of those details that drives me crazy!!

heh, no one in my family has been knighted or nominated for sainthood, but geeze....we all have access to the dang shed! the key hangs on the key rack right by the door and we all know where it is. i mean, who knows...someone other than myself might actually get a wild hair to cut the grass. :rotfl: far be it from me to have the key hidden away. there is something to this whole mysterious hidden shed key deal....and it bugs the living fool out of me!

I would venture to guess that George got tired of going out to mow only to find his cans were gone and locked up the shed. Casey reached a new level when she had Tony break the lock or she had previously found that she did not have the strength to do it herself.

I have long believed that George and Cindy made the police report on the 24th because they were gathering documentation to file for custody or to threaten her with it again. She had documentation from the bank, they filed this report, she threatened her during the 911 call transfer. I think that is why Cindy wouldn't hand over her credit card statements as well, I think they had notes about which charges were Casey's and that type of documentation.

 

[RR0004]

Please forgive me...I haven't had time to read it all...but can someone please explain how that guy on the Today Show could say what he did? Has it been discussed? I know the whole dueling expert thing, but he sounded absurd....especially after reading everything. Is he basically accusing the State/FBI of lying?

 

[beach]

I would venture to guess that George got tired of going out to mow only to find his cans were gone and locked up the shed. Casey reached a new level when she had Tony break the lock or she had previously found that she did not have the strength to do it herself.

I have long believed that George and Cindy made the police report on the 24th because they were gathering documentation to file for custody or to threaten her with it again. She had documentation from the bank, they filed this report, she threatened her during the 911 call transfer. I think that is why Cindy wouldn't hand over her credit card statements as well, I think they had notes about which charges were Casey's and that type of documentation.

you know....i guess so. even if the cans weren't 'missing' prior, maybe they stayed empty because she kept using the gas for her personal car. sheesh. this would be another one of those 'red flags' that CA keeps insisting weren't there, i guess.


the rest of your post makes perfect sense to me. it sounds exactly like they were creating a well-documented record of KC's irresponsibility and dishonesty. yikes. no wonder the A's are beating themselves up for not filing for custody sooner.

 

[Jolynna]

I would venture to guess that George got tired of going out to mow only to find his cans were gone and locked up the shed. Casey reached a new level when she had Tony break the lock or she had previously found that she did not have the strength to do it herself.

I have long believed that George and Cindy made the police report on the 24th because they were gathering documentation to file for custody or to threaten her with it again. She had documentation from the bank, they filed this report, she threatened her during the 911 call transfer. I think that is why Cindy wouldn't hand over her credit card statements as well, I think they had notes about which charges were Casey's and that type of documentation.

I agree with every one of your points.

 

[angeleleven]

Please forgive me...I haven't had time to read it all...but can someone please explain how that guy on the Today Show could say what he did? Has it been discussed? I know the whole dueling expert thing, but he sounded absurd....especially after reading everything. Is he basically accusing the State/FBI of lying?

thanks for asking..I was wondering the same thing. What is going on and why would he accuse the state of lying or planting evidence?

 

[coloradoteacher]

I just feel like I have to disagree: the layer upon layer of tape shows a true sense of rage! I think the rage was quick, furious and then done. In fact, I had thought that probably Caylee was still alive for quite awhile in the trunk, had Casey gone back and checked on her, she could have probably pulled her out and saved her. But she didn't bother checking and by the time she did, she was dead.

I can definitely see your point. When you say it that way, I agree there was probably more rage into it. I guess I was having a hard time picturing Caylee reacting to the duct tape the first time it was coming at her the way an adult would. She probably would not have know what hit her. I think that is more what I mean. I sure hope it was a rage and not as cold and calculated as it could have been.

 

[Skully]

-- respectfully snipped

This has always been one of those details that drives me crazy!!

heh, no one in my family has been knighted or nominated for sainthood, but geeze....we all have access to the dang shed! the key hangs on the key rack right by the door and we all know where it is. i mean, who knows...someone other than myself might actually get a wild hair to cut the grass. :rotfl: far be it from me to have the key hidden away. there is something to this whole mysterious hidden shed key deal....and it bugs the living fool out of me!

I bet it was the duct tape, the Henkle Duct tape! As you know that tape has the logo on it, and it was discontinued in 2006 and only sold at Home Depot and Ace Hardware. I would bet that they were missing that roll of duct tape. It wasn't found in the garage, on the first search and it was never listed on any other search. But the gas cans had a piece of that tape on it.