Autopsy Report - UCF Osteological Analysis-Duct Tape Info

[Searchfortruth]

I would venture to guess that George got tired of going out to mow only to find his cans were gone and locked up the shed. Casey reached a new level when she had Tony break the lock or she had previously found that she did not have the strength to do it herself.

I have long believed that George and Cindy made the police report on the 24th because they were gathering documentation to file for custody or to threaten her with it again. She had documentation from the bank, they filed this report, she threatened her during the 911 call transfer. I think that is why Cindy wouldn't hand over her credit card statements as well, I think they had notes about which charges were Casey's and that type of documentation.

I agree, they were trying to keep one person out of that shed and the gasoline...Casey. The kid proofing story as it relates to a shed is questionable, IMO. I also agree that they were "trying" to take some steps to stop Casey's dependent and dysfunctional behavior, not actually following through with much though. Cindy goes to a counselor at work and the counselor, according to SP, tells Cindy to get custody of Caylee and kick Casey out...of course, Cindy wasn't ready to go that far, counseling over. On the first 911 call Cindy says..."No my car was stolen. We've retrieved it today. I've got that and I've got affadavit's for my banking account. I want to bring her in, I want to press charges." Sorry for going OT here.

 

[fortytwo]

I'm kind of leaning in the same direction as you Bond...minimal handling of the body post-mortem. And as you note, that makes the duct-tape very difficult to reconcile. I saw your post on another thread about the duct-tape, sticker, and bags needing to be convenient for 10-minute KC to use them. I have not pieced it all together in my head but I believe doing so (tracking KC's likely movements around the house / yard) will shed light on what happened.

I'm really just posting at the moment about the long piece of duct tape and the two shorter ones found very close to it. None of those pieces were sent to the FBI for analysis, and I believe the reason is that LE thought they were random pieces of garbage and unrelated to the crime. I can understand why. They were found very close to the fence, uphill from and well away from any bones that were discovered. No doubt animals could have dragged the tape to that location, but given no bones were found nearby, it seems unlikely.

I agree about the three pieces of tape found by the fence. What I'm waiting to hear more about is the fourth piece of "Henkel" tape at the disposal site, the one that was found close to the remains. That piece was found by LE after the remains (and the first three pieces) were removed by the ME, and it was sent off to the FBI labs. Unless I've missed something we have never seen it mentioned subsequent to the documentation of transfer to the FBI.

Also, it seems like we're still missing an FBI lab report on trace fiber evidence for the four pieces (three from site, one from A's house) that we have seen some results on. I have to go back and re-read, but I seem to recall a mention of those being forwarded to another FBI lab for just that purpose.

It still puzzles me that no other duct tape, "Henkel" or otherwise, was found at the A's. Maybe it's just my sense of 'good old, red-blooded American, do-it-yourself' propriety, but I just can't imagine being a healthy adult male homeowner with a garage and two storage sheds and not having a roll or three floating around. Even if I had tossed some as part of a cover-up I would have gone out and replaced it. Maybe especially if I had, just because it would be too weird to not have any around. I have to wonder if GA even knew he was in a duct tape free zone until the searches.

 

[nyvictoria]

Please forgive me...I haven't had time to read it all...but can someone please explain how that guy on the Today Show could say what he did? Has it been discussed? I know the whole dueling expert thing, but he sounded absurd....especially after reading everything. Is he basically accusing the State/FBI of lying?

RR, HLN ran a clip of a defense "expert" tonight...must be the same guy. He said when he examined the body there was no duct tape, no evidence of duct tape and no residue from duct tape! They cut the clip there but one of the talking heads said the defense is gearing up to claim there was/is inappropriate action on the part of LE and the State. So in addition to SODDI, does the defense plan to claim evidence was manufactured and/or planted? Good luck with that!

 

[snow_walker]

I took three strips of 2 inch duct tape, and put it on a flat surface.. (the kitchen table..) and overlapped them a bit.. I hadn't realized just how much area that would cover ..it is one of those things where the actual seeing of the duct tape makes the point so much more obvious..
three strips of 2 inch tape, overlapped, would almost cover a childs whole face,never mind her mouth and nose (although I don't know how much over lap there was).. I sort of came up with an image of a child with virtually their whole face ..eyes, nose, mouth..covered with shiny duct tape.. it would almost make them unrecognizable.. remove much of their 'human-ness'...especially if it was wrapped quite far around the head, which this seems to have been.

I hadn't thought of this before, or at least not so graphically, but perhaps the use of the tape was two-fold.. to smother, but also to conceal their face .. make them not-a-child .. not little Caylee... but a sort of robot or something other than human..

It was a disturbing mental picture, and I am sorry for even mentioning it. It is just my personal vow to do my best to understand what really happened, to try my best to know the truth, and do what I can to 'Listen ..Learn.. Speak..' for Caylee... rather than accept an easy version of events, as I wish I could, of a child being chloroformed and passing away quietly without sufferring.

 

[doobiedoo52]

RR, HLN ran a clip of a defense "expert" tonight...must be the same guy. He said when he examined the body there was no duct tape, no evidence of duct tape and no residue from duct tape! They cut the clip there but one of the talking heads said the defense is gearing up to claim there was/is inappropriate action on the part of LE and the State. So in addition to SODDI, does the defense plan to claim evidence was manufactured and/or planted? Good luck with that!

I may be wrong in my memories here, but I believe the defense was not allowed to observe the first autopsy. At that autopsy the tape was removed by Dr G and sent on to FBI for analysis. Obviously, when they did their own autopsy, the tape was no longer there and there was no residue because it was clearly stated that the hair was holding the duct tape to the skull--the hair that was cut away with the removal of the tape. So, I guess he didn't get a chance to see it in place. I don't think he is saying it wasn't there to begin with--just that they did not have the opportunity to see it there. I think it may have been a little "dig" at the prosecution for denying them the opportunity to observe the initial autopsy. MOO

 

[Mystic]

-- respectfully snipped

This has always been one of those details that drives me crazy!!

heh, no one in my family has been knighted or nominated for sainthood, but geeze....we all have access to the dang shed! the key hangs on the key rack right by the door and we all know where it is. i mean, who knows...someone other than myself might actually get a wild hair to cut the grass. :rotfl: far be it from me to have the key hidden away. there is something to this whole mysterious hidden shed key deal....and it bugs the living fool out of me!

lol, thank you.. needed a little laughter.

absolutely agree with you, guess there was something amess in the shed they wanted to cover up or GA didn't want anyone cutting his grass

 

[gogrannypop]

I agree about the three pieces of tape found by the fence. What I'm waiting to hear more about is the fourth piece of "Henkel" tape at the disposal site, the one that was found close to the remains. That piece was found by LE after the remains (and the first three pieces) were removed by the ME, and it was sent off to the FBI labs. Unless I've missed something we have never seen it mentioned subsequent to the documentation of transfer to the FBI.

Also, it seems like we're still missing an FBI lab report on trace fiber evidence for the four pieces (three from site, one from A's house) that we have seen some results on. I have to go back and re-read, but I seem to recall a mention of those being forwarded to another FBI lab for just that purpose.

It still puzzles me that no other duct tape, "Henkel" or otherwise, was found at the A's. Maybe it's just my sense of 'good old, red-blooded American, do-it-yourself' propriety, but I just can't imagine being a healthy adult male homeowner with a garage and two storage sheds and not having a roll or three floating around. Even if I had tossed some as part of a cover-up I would have gone out and replaced it. Maybe especially if I had, just because it would be too weird to not have any around. I have to wonder if GA even knew he was in a duct tape free zone until the searches.

Bolded by Granny

Rolls of tape do run out. Maybe it was the end of the roll of tape and the cardboard center got thrown out.

 

[ShadowGal]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3875248&postcount=689"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Duct Tape Match[/ame]


Carrying over ConcernedPapa's posts on The Duct Tape Match thread.


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3807564&postcount=674"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Duct Tape Match[/ame]


This was an unusual type of duct tape....I don't think that it would be the kind you'd use on everyday repairs, etc...I think it was the type that would hang around in a garage or shed for a while, not run out...because it had very specific uses, see second linked post. Just opinion of course. But I remember my mom running around the house when we were kids yelling, "Who took my good scissors????" and George strikes me as the type who would say, "Where is my good duct tape?" I gotta take a break from this. I'm getting ridiculous now, lol.

 

[reeseeva]

Hows many pieces of duct tape were recovered at the crime scene? Does anyone remember. I believe it was 6 or more?? That would be in addition to what was on Caylee's face.

 

[fortytwo]

Bolded by Granny

Rolls of tape do run out. Maybe it was the end of the roll of tape and the cardboard center got thrown out.

Maybe. It's not a 'big deal' to me, just one of those 'Huh. Wonder what's up with that.' kinda things.

I've always figured that if the 'Henkel' tape was originally sourced from laying around the A's house then at the very second that GA heard about it he would have known without any shadow of a doubt that his daughter was the killer.

Thing is, we really don't know for certain that the tape came from there. We know at least that the gas can had the piece on it at some time after it came back from Casey's car, but we don't know if it had it when it came back, or if the piece was on the can before the can got to Casey's car.

 

[fortytwo]

Hows many pieces of duct tape were recovered at the crime scene? Does anyone remember. I believe it was 6 or more?? That would be in addition to what was on Caylee's face.

Seven total at the remains site. (That we've been told about so far.)

Three with the remains and one very near them (found the next day) which were all 'Henkel' logo, and three others with no logo that were at the very limits of the search area, and were not found until the last day of the search. The latter three almost certainly have no relevance to the case.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I am hesitant to rely too much on the duct tape as solid evidence because of the way it was described in the autopsy report. It said it was delaminating (splitting into layers). It worries me that this makes it sound so degraded that there isn't much forensic value left in it. It's good that it isn't a common type and can be connected to the Anthony household through the same type being on their gas can. But it makes me doubt that if each piece is separating into several layers that any of Casey's (or anyone's) fingerprints can be found on it. . . . and we need something to link it specifically to Casey, don't we?

 

[doobiedoo52]

As we all discuss the duct tape, NG once again causes more rumors with her description tonight of the duct tape being wound around and around Caylee's head like a turban. I wonder if she even read the autopsy report?

 

[fortytwo]

As we all discuss the duct tape, NG once again causes more rumors with her description tonight of the duct tape being wound around and around Caylee's head like a turban. I wonder if she even read the autopsy report?

Don't get me started.

I have pretty much reached the point that anything I see or hear about being seen on the Nancy creature's show has to be assumed wrong until proven otherwise.

 

[robotdog]

lol, thank you.. needed a little laughter.

absolutely agree with you, guess there was something amess in the shed they wanted to cover up or GA didn't want anyone cutting his grass

they were probably afraid she would sell the lawnmower and weedwacker
to a friend of hers for 10 bucks :crazy:

 

[RR0004]

I may be wrong in my memories here, but I believe the defense was not allowed to observe the first autopsy. At that autopsy the tape was removed by Dr G and sent on to FBI for analysis. Obviously, when they did their own autopsy, the tape was no longer there and there was no residue because it was clearly stated that the hair was holding the duct tape to the skull--the hair that was cut away with the removal of the tape. So, I guess he didn't get a chance to see it in place. I don't think he is saying it wasn't there to begin with--just that they did not have the opportunity to see it there. I think it may have been a little "dig" at the prosecution for denying them the opportunity to observe the initial autopsy. MOO

I definitely got the impression he was saying that it was no there period.

 

[scandi]

I am hesitant to rely too much on the duct tape as solid evidence because of the way it was described in the autopsy report. It said it was delaminating (splitting into layers). It worries me that this makes it sound so degraded that there isn't much forensic value left in it. It's good that it isn't a common type and can be connected to the Anthony household through the same type being on their gas can. But it makes me doubt that if each piece is separating into several layers that any of Casey's (or anyone's) fingerprints can be found on it. . . . and we need something to link it specifically to Casey, don't we?

Hi ExpectingUnicorns, I think it is a case based on Circumstantial Evidence, and when everything is done and said it will be brazenly apparant Casey murdered her daughter.

It would have been peachy to have fingerprints inbetween the layers of tape and personally I was hoping for fibres, prints, something telling us when the tape was put there, etc.

But we really gleaned allot IMO. Overlapping layers of Duct tape to me show a purpose driven by anger. Adrenaline rising and out of control! And the unique 'Henkel' tape discovered still in place on Caylee's skull and matching that on a family gas can will be lethal in court IMO. It all adds up, and these two points are DYNOMITE for the Prosecution.

The multi layers of tape are so disquieting I think that is why they didn't want the public to know about it, plus that tape having been used on their personal gas can! xox



ETA: Didn't we originally hear that the tape went all the way around the back of her head? I could swear it was in a link stated by someone at the scene.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I am hesitant to rely too much on the duct tape as solid evidence because of the way it was described in the autopsy report. It said it was delaminating (splitting into layers). It worries me that this makes it sound so degraded that there isn't much forensic value left in it. It's good that it isn't a common type and can be connected to the Anthony household through the same type being on their gas can. But it makes me doubt that if each piece is separating into several layers that any of Casey's (or anyone's) fingerprints can be found on it. . . . and we need something to link it specifically to Casey, don't we?

What links it to Casey is the fact that she was the last person known to be with Caylee, and don't forget the heart sticker that was put over the mouth that might have matched a sticker from the house.

It's totally unnatural for a small child to have layers of duct tape over their face. A jury will freak when they hear that and see pictures of the skull. The fact that it was still attached means that whoever did it and put the body in the woods meant business with the murder.

So to me, the "forensic value" isn't just the tape itself, but the circumstantial evidence surrounding it. There is no way to explain-away the duct tape, and no good reason for ever putting something like that on a little child's mouth. Whether Caylee's death was accidental from suffocation or she was killed on purpose, the duct tape is big evidence of abuse and sociopathic behavior.

 

[hornswoggled]

What links it to Casey is the fact that she was the last person known to be with Caylee, and don't forget the heart sticker that was put over the mouth that might have matched a sticker from the house.

It's totally unnatural for a small child to have layers of duct tape over their face. A jury will freak when they hear that and see pictures of the skull. The fact that it was still attached means that whoever did it and put the body in the woods meant business with the murder.

So to me, the "forensic value" isn't just the tape itself, but the circumstantial evidence surrounding it. There is no way to explain-away the duct tape, and no good reason for ever putting something like that on a little child's mouth. Whether Caylee's death was accidental from suffocation or she was killed on purpose, the duct tape is big evidence of abuse and sociopathic behavior.

bolded by me

I agree. There is no way to explain it away, no matter when it was placed there. And it's ironic that the duct tape on Caylee matches the duct tape on the gas cans. The same gas cans that were made such a big deal over by the A's themselves. The duct tape is turning into a noose, slowly but surely.

 

[Marina2]

We still have important, possibly incriminating, reports due back on the Henkel duct tape. We know that fibers of various types were found on the tape and preserved on slides for further testing. The Q64 and Q66 pieces of tape will be tested for differences or matches in the fabric layer of the tape. The piece of Henkel tape found near the remains that fortytwo referred to hasn't been mentioned in FBI lab results but will be tested. Results for all of this will be reported on.

Other results that may or may not be forthcoming are fingerprint matching to KC, possibly touch DNA, and some type of evidence that shows the tape was put on before death.

The tape wasn't so degraded that FBI labs couldn't match the chemical composition on the adhesive layer and the backing with that of the tape on the gas cans.

So, imo, there's still hope that the duct tape will tell a story that will, without a doubt, show that KC is guilty of murder.

Barring that, I think any doubt the jury has about the forensic evidence will be erased when they consider KC's actions. Her consciousness of guilt will seal the deal.