awaiting sentencing phase

[PrimeSuspect]

Don't now what j-j described but OP mimicking Reeva's screams for help is a common phenomena that is "instinctive" and can be observed from childhood.

eg.1 : "Moooom, Jake hit me"… Reply : "Moooom, Jenny pinched me"

eg.2 : "I'm telling dad"… Reply : "No, I'm telling dad"

eg.3 : Driver-A rear-ends driver-B… Driver-A feels fine but sees that driver-B gets out of his car whilst grimacing and holding on to his neck… Driver-A suddenly and "inexplicably" also has an injury.

eg.4 : "If you don't stop, I'm calling the police"… Reply : "Fine by me, I'll even call the police myself"

eg.5 : "Stop it or I swear I'll scream for help"… Reply : "Help! Help! Help!"

… nobody wants to be identified as the perpetrator/aggressor, better to be seen as a victim.

Sounds like my brother and me when we were kids. :floorlaugh:

 

[JudgeJudi]

It was Masipa’s court yet she rarely showed she was in control.

• She should have asked Roux what the defence was – and we still don’t know.
• She shouldn’t have allowed such overly-aggressive cross-examination by Roux, particularly in regard to Berger. That was just plain brutal IMO.
• She should have spoken up when so-called experts were testifying outside their area of expertise. In the case of Derman that would have ruled out a massive portion of his evidence. Could you ask for a more biased witness? And yet she let him go on and on and on. Secondly, she allowed him to be argumentative, sarcastic and openly hostile to Nel. She shouldn’t have permitted that.
• She should have cut short the testimony of the social worker who visited him in jail.
• She should have asked Roux to provide the sound recording of OP screaming like a woman. He said he would but didn’t, but we knew he wouldn’t and why. The screams were an integral part of the State’s case. What we had instead was a woman scream in court but that same woman said she heard a man scream. Huh?
• She shouldn’t have given so many adjournments when OP conveniently broke down during cross-examination. I can understand that she may have wanted to give him an opportunity to compose himself. Had she forced him to continue when he appeared to be very distressed, Roux may possibly have used that as a ground for appeal on the basis it was an unfair trial. For the most part, I would have allowed him to gain his composure in the witness box even if it took a couple of minutes. It was amazing to see him leave the courtroom only minutes later dry-eyed after more than one of these outbursts.
• She should have come down hard on Roux when he wasted days and days of court time because his witnesses weren’t available, and this happened after a 2 week break when he had all that time to line them up. Inexcusable IMO.

As it stands at the moment, there are countless poor people who’ve been locked up while waiting for their day in court, some of whom have probably been waiting for a couple years while OP goes home to his uncle’s mansion every night, has a holiday in Mozambique and goes out to nightclubs.

IMO this trial should have been over in a matter of weeks. Basically what changed from his initial version in his bail affidavit and plea explanation? Nothing except lies and tailoring. As Judge Greenland said, Masipa bought his whole story hook, line and sinker. He should have saved his tears and blubbering for the mitigation phase because that’s all she needed to see to know this was a genuine sign of his “remorse”.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.news.com.au/world/oscar-...lympian-millions/story-fndir2ev-1227055883955

The personal traits that were once ignored or even seen as admirable are now considered proof of an unstable character. People who would once line up for an autograph or selfie would now cross the road to avoid him.

His biggest sponsors Nike, Clarins and Oakey dropped him one after another as the trial proceeded and, from a commercial point of view, who can blame them? Not too many corporations would want their image linked to a self-confessed killer who cries and vomits on television.

But perhaps the ultimate sign that it was all over for Pistorius came two weeks into the case with a short public announcement that Iceland company Ossur would no longer be associated with the world’s best known disabled athlete. Ossur manufactures carbon fibre prosthetic limbs.

The Blade Runner had lost his livelihood, his legend, and finally, his legs.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

How can people STILL be talking about Reeva screaming when direct physical evidence proves it can't have been her? When does this stop being about Oscar and start being about the minds of others?

June, it's not over yet, we still have Oct 13-17 for sentencing, then who knows what will happen after? There is no direct physical evidence that Reeva didn't scream BEFORE she was shot, there were ear witnesses who heard a woman screaming, and the evidence she may not have screamed after being shot is still disputable.

I will ignore your last sentence because telling people to stop posting on a sleuthing site and querying our minds is against the rules, but I'm sure you know that.

 

[lithgow1]

How can people STILL be talking about Reeva screaming when direct physical evidence proves it can't have been her? When does this stop being about Oscar and start being about the minds of others?

Well JuneBug there are plenty of other aspects of this farce that can be discussed if you'd care to. For a good example, see JJ's post 342 above - plenty of food for thought and topics for discussion if you'd care to enter into them rather than this one thing that seems to preoccupy you. From what I can see, the posts and minds of others are focussed on a myriad of issues, not just one.

 

[44ALLAN]

Is this the duvet photo?

I tend to agree

Yes the duvet photo with the lights on and curtains open .............................etc etc

 

[PrimeSuspect]

It was Masipa’s court yet she rarely showed she was in control.
:yes:
• She should have asked Roux what the defence was – and we still don’t know. Good point
• She shouldn’t have allowed such overly-aggressive cross-examination by Roux, particularly in regard to Berger. That was just plain brutal IMO. I'm so glad this made the list as I totally agree, yet it was Nel who was accused of being brutal with his questioning OP, go figure.
• She should have spoken up when so-called experts were testifying outside their area of expertise. In the case of Derman that would have ruled out a massive portion of his evidence. Could you ask for a more biased witness? And yet she let him go on and on and on. Secondly, she allowed him to be argumentative, sarcastic and openly hostile to Nel. She shouldn’t have permitted that. Perfectly said JJudi, these so called 'experts' were running the show, and Nel left in the dark.
• She should have cut short the testimony of the social worker who visited him in jail. Yes, JMasipa was just too polite with witnesses for OP
• She should have asked Roux to provide the sound recording of OP screaming like a woman. He said he would but didn’t, but we knew he wouldn’t and why. The screams were an integral part of the State’s case. What we had instead was a woman scream in court but that same woman said she heard a man scream. Huh? If OP had demonstrated his scream, it would have been fatal for his case and if the verdict came out the same as it did, whoa, major controversy, imo.
• She shouldn’t have given so many adjournments when OP conveniently broke down during cross-examination. I can understand that she may have wanted to give him an opportunity to compose himself. Had she forced him to continue when he appeared to be very distressed, Roux may possibly have used that as a ground for appeal on the basis it was an unfair trial. For the most part, I would have allowed him to gain his composure in the witness box even if it took a couple of minutes. It was amazing to see him leave the courtroom only minutes later dry-eyed after more than one of these outbursts. Thank you for saying this, she was too soft on him by far and it frustrated Nel no end. I thought it was perfectly logical that Nel would ask OP, why he was crying all the time.
• She should have come down hard on Roux when he wasted days and days of court time because his witnesses weren’t available, and this happened after a 2 week break when he had all that time to line them up. Inexcusable IMO. I agree, Roux made so many promises and broke most of them, why he even bothered I'm not sure, they had it the bag so obviously, again, moo.

As it stands at the moment, there are countless poor people who’ve been locked up while waiting for their day in court, some of whom have probably been waiting for a couple years while OP goes home to his uncle’s mansion every night, has a holiday in Mozambique and goes out to nightclubs.

IMO this trial should have been over in a matter of weeks. Basically what changed from his initial version in his bail affidavit and plea explanation? Nothing except lies and tailoring. As Judge Greenland said, Masipa bought his whole story hook, line and sinker. He should have saved his tears and blubbering for the mitigation phase because that’s all she needed to see to know this was a genuine sign of his “remorse”.

:clap:

 

[Lux et Veritas]

The sounds of lions and other wildlife can often be heard from the vicinity of Farm Inn where 23 species of wild animal are kept at the private game sanctuary.
http://www.silverwoods.co.za/
http://www.farminn.co.za/wildlife-a-gamedrives.html

Farm Inn Wildlife Sanctuary is ½ MILE (730 metres) from OP’s house.
Stipps house - 72m.
EVDM house - 98m.
Burger/Johnson house - 177m.

Yet Masipa declares that all five State ear witnesses are “mistaken” - that they could never have heard a loud, lengthy fight (across the street), a woman’s multiple, piercing, blood-curdling screams for her life (across an empty lot).

Hell, even Carice Stander testified she heard a man yelling help help help - and she lives farther from OP than the Stipps, EVDM and Burger/Johnson!

Masipa’s shockingly irrational garbage, this entire insane verdict (save the correct ruling on Tasha’s - how did that happen?)... I want to know who got to her.* They either paid her off big time, threatened her or both. Surely she could not be such a hopelessly biased OP fangirl that she would willingly toss the law on its azz, present the Verdict from Neverland to become the world’s judicial laughingstock, practically offering up an appeal on a silver platter on Nel’s behalf?

It is surreal.

* I’m thinking beyond the Pistorius family; there are multiple powerful entities (with varied agendas) who could also have vested interests in keeping OP out of prison - most of it no doubt involving very large sums of cash.

MAPS below: The Farm Inn is in the lower left corner.

 

[RosieC]

If OP is a devout Christian, Christianity is in serious trouble !!

To me at least, OP is like so many others : pick and choose which bits are convenient in the moment and disregard the bits which are inconvenient in the moment.

"Only God can judge thee" : Very convenient when one has committed a crime and is facing Man's Justice

I agree, but if defence knew that Masipa was a devout Christian, OP appearing as a fellow devout Christian could give credence. Anyone count how many times he testified that he prayed to God? It is a ploy recognized by forensic profilers. And consider how often he said "My lady." He knew who held his fate in her hands. I never believed his emotions were acting, but they were shallow, they were not necessarily for Reeva. How quickly did he stop crying? All this is manipulative. In my view anyway.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Farm Inn Wildlife Sanctuary is ½ MILE (730 metres) from OP’s house.
Stipps house - 72m.
EVDM house - 98m.
Burger/Johnson house - 177m.

Yet Masipa declares that all five State ear witnesses are “mistaken” - that they could never have heard a loud, lengthy fight (across the street), a woman’s multiple, piercing, blood-curdling screams for her life (across an empty lot).

Hell, even Carice Stander testified she heard a man yelling help help help - and she lives farther from OP than the Stipps, EVDM and Burger/Johnson!

Masipa’s shockingly irrational garbage, this entire insane verdict (save the correct ruling on Tasha’s - how did that happen?)... I want to know who got to her.* They either paid her off big time, threatened her or both. Surely she could not be such a hopelessly biased OP fangirl that she would willingly toss the law on its azz, present the Verdict from Neverland to become the world’s judicial laughingstock, practically offering up an appeal on a silver platter on Nel’s behalf?

It is surreal.

* I’m thinking beyond the Pistorius family; there are multiple powerful entities (with varied agendas) who could also have vested interests in keeping OP out of prison - most of it no doubt involving very large sums of cash.

MAPS below: The Farm Inn is in the lower left corner.

View attachment 60257

View attachment 60258

Ikr? Who would have thought she was going to 'gaslight' the witnesses, the courtroom, the world, lol.

Carisa heard both Reeva and OP, why would she have thought a woman was in trouble? smh. It's a big cover up. :silenced:


As I'm movie buff (based on true story about Al Capone), we need the likes of Eliot Ness, an untouchable, maybe OP will be imprisoned for unpaid taxes. I kid, I kid.


:justice: for Reeva

 

[Sherbert]

It was Masipa’s court yet she rarely showed she was in control.

• She should have asked Roux what the defence was – and we still don’t know.
• She shouldn’t have allowed such overly-aggressive cross-examination by Roux, particularly in regard to Berger. That was just plain brutal IMO.
• She should have spoken up when so-called experts were testifying outside their area of expertise. In the case of Derman that would have ruled out a massive portion of his evidence. Could you ask for a more biased witness? And yet she let him go on and on and on. Secondly, she allowed him to be argumentative, sarcastic and openly hostile to Nel. She shouldn’t have permitted that.
• She should have cut short the testimony of the social worker who visited him in jail.
• She should have asked Roux to provide the sound recording of OP screaming like a woman. He said he would but didn’t, but we knew he wouldn’t and why. The screams were an integral part of the State’s case. What we had instead was a woman scream in court but that same woman said she heard a man scream. Huh?
• She shouldn’t have given so many adjournments when OP conveniently broke down during cross-examination. I can understand that she may have wanted to give him an opportunity to compose himself. Had she forced him to continue when he appeared to be very distressed, Roux may possibly have used that as a ground for appeal on the basis it was an unfair trial. For the most part, I would have allowed him to gain his composure in the witness box even if it took a couple of minutes. It was amazing to see him leave the courtroom only minutes later dry-eyed after more than one of these outbursts.
• She should have come down hard on Roux when he wasted days and days of court time because his witnesses weren’t available, and this happened after a 2 week break when he had all that time to line them up. Inexcusable IMO.

As it stands at the moment, there are countless poor people who’ve been locked up while waiting for their day in court, some of whom have probably been waiting for a couple years while OP goes home to his uncle’s mansion every night, has a holiday in Mozambique and goes out to nightclubs.

IMO this trial should have been over in a matter of weeks. Basically what changed from his initial version in his bail affidavit and plea explanation? Nothing except lies and tailoring. As Judge Greenland said, Masipa bought his whole story hook, line and sinker. He should have saved his tears and blubbering for the mitigation phase because that’s all she needed to see to know this was a genuine sign of his “remorse”.

Agreed, JudgeJudi, and here are a few more to add to your list:

- She permitted Derman to read out in his evidence in chief the emailed hearsay evidence of some woman in England right up until Nel objected.

- She failed to admonish Roux for repeatedly calling eleventh hour 'expert' witnesses without giving adequate notice of the content of their reports to the State.

- She omitted to ask questions about the photographs, especially those showing damage to the bath panel and bedroom door.

- She failed to criticise the Defence re the broken chain of custody in respect of the missing phone.

- She failed to make any adverse comment re the removal of Reeva's handbag from the scene.

- She failed to pick up on Carice Stander's comment, 'What happened to the lady?' (As did Nel, unfortunately).

- She failed to engage with the State's suggestion that the bat may have come first.

I'm sure there are a lot more...

 

[Sherbert]

I honestly wonder how much of the proceedings Milady actually heard...I'm convinced that she's hard of hearing and that most of the evidence sailed right over her head...

 

[cottonweaver]

Sophisticated or experienced? Not necessarily. The mind can process thoughts in fractions of seconds, as someone (I think jay-jay) has described.

Totally agree Cherwell. I remember an incident, many years ago, when I was an undergrad and was followed home by some miscreant who broke in through the back door. The point is, from my bedroom, as soon as I had heard that back door handle turn, I obviously processed in a second that I could get downstairs and out through the front door before he managed to get in via the back!

Of course it was survival instinct kicking in, but its amazing how reasoning can be acute and quick in these situations.
I am pleased to say, he was caught that night. ( Hard-nosed but effective British CID who made me get in their car and then did an immediate trawl around the nearby roads and we picked him up at a bus stop a couple of miles away. Luckily I didn't have to go to court as a witness as he had "form" as long as your arm.)

This man was a stranger - under threat by someone I knew - I would not have been possessed of such good judgment.

 

[AW2B]

Makes a sin! For that OP had to be pretty sophisticated, not to say criminal. And perhaps even experienced?

I personally don't believe his cries for HELP was a strategic decision to confuse the witnesses. I personally believe that he was in a state of panic after killing Reeva in a rage.. because he realized he will be in deep trouble.. possibly spending the rest of his life in prison.

 

[RosieC]

Agreed, JudgeJudi, and here are a few more to add to your list:

- She permitted Derman to read out in his evidence in chief the emailed hearsay evidence of some woman in England right up until Nel objected.

- She failed to admonish Roux for repeatedly calling eleventh hour 'expert' witnesses without giving adequate notice of the content of their reports to the State.

- She omitted to ask questions about the photographs, especially those showing damage to the bath panel and bedroom door.

- She failed to criticise the Defence re the broken chain of custody in respect of the missing phone.

- She failed to make any adverse comment re the removal of Reeva's handbag from the scene.

- She failed to pick up on Carice Stander's comment, 'What happened to the lady?' (As did Nel, unfortunately).

- She failed to engage with the State's suggestion that the bat may have come first.

I'm sure there are a lot more...

When did the state suggest that the bat may have come first? It was listed as a common cause that it followed the shots in her Judgement. Nel would protest surely. Thanks.

 

[RosieC]

I personally don't believe his cries for HELP was a strategic decision to confuse the witnesses. I personally believe that he was in a state of panic after killing Reeva in a rage.. because he realized he will be in deep trouble.. possibly spending the rest of his life in prison.

There were two instances of a help help help cry as I recall. One was before the shots, if you believe Reeva was screaming. She cried help help help, and Oscar echoed it. Then later Oscar again screamed help help help. If you believe that all the screaming was Oscar's then he called help help help three times, once in a falsetto.

 

[foxbluff]

Farm Inn Wildlife Sanctuary is ½ MILE (730 metres) from OP’s house.
Stipps house - 72m.
EVDM house - 98m.
Burger/Johnson house - 177m.

Yet Masipa declares that all five State ear witnesses are “mistaken” - that they could never have heard a loud, lengthy fight (across the street), a woman’s multiple, piercing, blood-curdling screams for her life (across an empty lot).

Hell, even Carice Stander testified she heard a man yelling help help help - and she lives farther from OP than the Stipps, EVDM and Burger/Johnson!

Masipa’s shockingly irrational garbage, this entire insane verdict (save the correct ruling on Tasha’s - how did that happen?)... I want to know who got to her.* They either paid her off big time, threatened her or both. Surely she could not be such a hopelessly biased OP fangirl that she would willingly toss the law on its azz, present the Verdict from Neverland to become the world’s judicial laughingstock, practically offering up an appeal on a silver platter on Nel’s behalf?

It is surreal.

* I’m thinking beyond the Pistorius family; there are multiple powerful entities (with varied agendas) who could also have vested interests in keeping OP out of prison - most of it no doubt involving very large sums of cash.

MAPS below: The Farm Inn is in the lower left corner.

View attachment 60257

View attachment 60258

Great job Lux with the satellite and street views showing Silverwoods and Farm Inn in perspective... we've needed these for so long !! Ty so much.

 

[foxbluff]

When did the state suggest that the bat may have come first? It was listed as a common cause that it followed the shots in her Judgement. Nel would protest surely. Thanks.

Nel's case was that the cricket bat strikes came first... that there had been an argument and Reeva ran and locked herself in the toilet to protect herself from OP.

I think a weakness of the State's case was that Nel didn't create a mosaic around his theory.

 

[Sherbert]

When did the state suggest that the bat may have come first? It was listed as a common cause that it followed the shots in her Judgement. Nel would protest surely. Thanks.

It definitely wasn't common cause, but I don't see how Nel could have stood up and interrupted Masipa during her reading of the Judgement, although it would have been very interesting if he had!

If you check out the State's Heads of Argument you will see that Nel contends that there were two sets of sounds, with screams in between, and that the second set of sounds were the shots.

This is a pretty fundamental mistake of fact on the part of the Judge, and I can only speculate that Nel didn't emphasise the point because he assumed she had already grasped the State's position and was persuaded by the compelling evidence in support of Reeva's screams.

I believe that Vermeulen's evidence was that at least one bat strike took place after the shots.

 

[foxbluff]

Per OP, Reeva had changed from her street clothes to his clothes (her PJs) just before he arrived home on the 13th... she left the jeans she arrived in on the bedroom floor.

Where did she leave the black "tank top" she arrived wearing? Was that on the floor, too, or neatly packed in her suitcase?

Was it ever stated where her "tank top" was found??